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#122679 - 11/09/07 03:54 PM Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF **** [Re: jdaf31r]  
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Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline

Carpal Tunnel

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West coast of Norway
Now that the decision is made, Andy "multikiller" Rice have something positive to say about the Tornado: http://sailjuiceblog.com/2007/11/09/retrograde/
Andy is quite a piece of work.

No doubt the price of tornados will go down. Fortunately we sold ours last month. Question is wether any new ones will be buildt (and sold).

If someone really want to do something, write the IOC a letter and let them know that ISAF is making a mistake. Tell them that the multihull is one of the things able to catch on with viewers:

International Olympic Committee
Château de Vidy
1007 Lausanne
Switzerland

-- Have You Seen This? --
#122680 - 11/09/07 05:13 PM Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: Mark Schneider]  
Joined: Jun 2002
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pitchpoledave Offline
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pitchpoledave  Offline
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Toronto, Ontario
How about another perspective on this thing. It may actually be a good thing because as we know the cost of Tornados is high which means ONLY the Olympic teams can afford it. (ok and a handful of others as well)

However, this opens the door to re-introducing a catamaran class at a future time based on a much less expensive boat, say Nacra20. (no F18 since choosing one of the existing F18 boats would favour one manufacturer and hurt the class).

#122681 - 11/09/07 05:43 PM Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: pitchpoledave]  
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Darryl_Barrett Offline
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South Australia
You all do realise that now that the ISAF has dropped ALL/ANY multi hull from the Olympics, they (the ISAF) have at one stroke of the pen, removed every disincentive to ANY/ALL multihull class(s) from organising and calling their event “NATIONALS” and “WORLDS”?
The threat from the ISAF that any sailer who competed in a class event that called there events “”world titles/championships” without the approval of the ISAF could/would be ”blacklisted” and unable to compete in future ISAF sanctioned events (primarily the Olympics) does not carry any weight now? So what if you compete in a non sanctioned “world catamaran championship” event now? What will the ISAF do? Ban you from sailing in the Olympics on a Laser when you sail nothing but cats? BIG DEAL. I say stuff the ISAF; I like the idea of the ICAF (or anything similar that is totally independent of the ISAF).
Personally I feel that, indirectly they have done us (cat sailers) a big favour! They have now come out of the closet (so to speak) concerning their (mono mentality) dislike of multihulls, and actually, “put in writing” just how they do think of multihulls – they want our revenue, they want to control us, but they don’t want us to be seen or heard – It’s taken THEM over forty years to actually come out and say just how they feel about us, and now there can be no doubt as to just how much they DON”T like multihulls.
Well stuff them! We now have the opportunity to “do our own thing” so lets not let this golden opportunity slip through OUR fingers – lets be pro active, not reactive – WE WILL SURVIVE, in spite of any and all anti multihull sentiments

#122682 - 11/09/07 06:05 PM Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: Darryl_Barrett]  
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Darryn Offline
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Darryn  Offline
addict

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Port Noarlunga, SA, Australia
Maybe cat was eliminated from the event because Tornado was the wrong boat. Widely available, useable platform makes more sense, works for the Laser.

Darryn
1782

#122683 - 11/09/07 06:59 PM Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: Darryn]  
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BLR_0719 Offline
enthusiast
BLR_0719  Offline
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Atlanta, Ga
I feel like this is the beginning of a revolution in catamaran sailing. It's exciting



#122684 - 11/09/07 07:16 PM Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: Rolf_Nilsen]  
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warbird Offline
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warbird  Offline
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Bay of Islands, NZ
Wow!
Does no one else get sick of the size the Olympics have grown to?

Tornaoes don't get that much sponsorship do they? I thought it more like the F18s and As??
Imagine As not being in the Olympics?????
Fastest one man, one sail multi is not but the Laser is....

It is a simple matter. Public will keep going to these biggish cats that are sailing the new races like Volvo 40. Sponsership will follow that more and more.

No one here turns a head when a Laser or such leaves the beach but they all check out a cat....they are way sexier.

Keep sailing, keep going faster than they do. Anyone can be in the Olympics these days...I think they are considdering darts as a demonstration sport.........throwing pins at a wall.

Catamaran sailors are outsiders, non-compliant and the sort of individuals who create the new. Man-up, let them away...then we don't have to abey all of the daft s**t they come up with anyway....Means the end of the T though.

Race and beat them on a daily basis....Nothing hurts like being a bunch of slow-moes.

#122685 - 11/09/07 07:34 PM Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: pitchpoledave]  
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Mark Schneider Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mark Schneider  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

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Posts: 3,095
Annapolis, MD
Hey Dave

how many times have you driven to Florida for a National type event? It's not the boat... its the time and money to get there, race, train, afford coaching. etc etc.

Darrel
yes... but ISAF through your MNA... eg US Sailing can also sanction the Yacht Club that lets you... the banned racer compete at their event.
Now this may be a toothless threat... but some clubs would take a hard look at it and say... Not worth the hassle!
Also... the mono's own the most essential thing we need... WATER ACCESS.... those clubs will be our only access to the water in a few years..... either we join them, run them and take stewardship of them... or we melt away.

IMO,
The opportunity does exist for a savy sports marketing guy to make something useful happen though.

Perhaps, Herbie Derkson may have the means to pull a pro 20 foot circuit together.... Certainly... the EU has a strong 28 footer circuit, plus the decision 40 footer PLUS the Ishares extreme 40 circuit. Certainly... the aussie skiffs haven't needed the 5 ring circus to capture peoples imagination and marketing $$$.

Maybe the Olympic circuit will prove ... one circuit too many. The Olympic Ol Farts certainly haven't done a great job of marketing the sport now have they.

Heck... one of my local budies had stickers made up for his idea... NASCAT.... just keep turning left! He has had a plan for quite some time now... (its strictly a USA kind of thing though)

For sure.. Lots of people have had a lot of dreams torched by the powers that be. Had the Star class gone down ... an equal number of dreams would be crushed.

It certainly ushers in a new day... (NOW, I only wish we could be debating the old... Hobie 16 sloop versus... the Tornado with spin choice of equipement)

The future of the catamaran sport will be determined by our success in creating a development program for youth... Developing strong sailing clubs for the rank and file and creating and marketing an elite level of the sport which puts the benchmark out there for all to aspire to.

Mark


crac.sailregattas.com
#122686 - 11/09/07 07:58 PM Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: warbird]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 170
ACE11 Offline
member
ACE11  Offline
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Posts: 170
Brisvegas
This is a damm shame. We have just lost our pinnacle - the almost unobtainable goal that many sailors dream about but few attain. Imagine if the soccer world cup was eliminated and the highest honour was to play in the local league. Olympics may not be attainable for most cat sailors but you certainly can cheer and support your country representatives, and feel pride when they do well. Not any more after China. I know how much it has meant to Glen Ashby to achieve the goal of representing his country in the upcoming olympics. He had a dream as a kid, a passion as an emerging champion and an obsession over the last three years to get there. He has won multiple genuine world championships in three of the top four cat classes (A's, F18's & Tornado) and they won't mean as much as if he were to win Olympic Gold. Sailing means little to most people in the world - an Olympic Gold is universally recognised as a symbol of ultimate achievement.
Anyway, as others have said, let's get on with running rings around the mono-slugs on the course!
BTW I first saw a flat top sail being used in the Australian A Class Nationals in 1988 at Lake Cootharaba Queensland. Barry Marmion used it after being involved in building C Class cat's in Victoria in the eighties. He said he got the idea after watching sailboard sails with big roaches and soft mast tips bending off in gusts and really accelerating. He thought more sail area up high would blade off in gusts but be available for lift in between gusts. We were all using flat tops by the next season.
Bugger the Olympics - I've gotta go sailing.

John Dowling
Geltek Flyer 11 AUS 917
Stingray 589

#122687 - 11/10/07 01:03 AM Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: ACE11]  
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lachy2755 Offline
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lachy2755  Offline
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My dreams crushed in one fell swoop <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

#122688 - 11/10/07 03:12 AM Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: lachy2755]  
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wirebound Offline
journeyman
wirebound  Offline
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Posts: 64
Time to pick ourselves up an move on, maybe this is a time to reflect on maybe the T was just the wrong cat, very very few girls in an open class is a clue. Maybe we should be looking at a class of cat that girls can take on the boys without growing a man arms, Imagine for a moment if the ( I don't believe I'm saying this ) F16 was taken to the level of refinement as the T. The Tornado is a beast of a boat, it's a maneater in a blow and the F18 is not far behind it, it's a weight thing (boat) you have two people trying to control 160kg and 180 kg boats. Drop the weight with a modern F class and allow the girls take on the boys, maybe take the idea of the F classes make a Olympic class, just my two cents.

#122689 - 11/10/07 03:57 AM Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: wirebound]  
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Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline

Carpal Tunnel

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Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
I think having any F-class or any member of a current F-class in the games would be a bad idea. With all the resources olympians would put into making this boat or class faster, cost would skyrocket and probably kill off the class. This have been pointed out several times in this thread already. A strict one-design is the only choice possible, and if picked from an existing F-class it would very probably kill of that class. I abhor the idea of an F-16 in the games.
A female can sail a Tornado quite easily, she just need someone fit to run the sheets. I have even sailed a nationals on the T with my sister as crew pulling all strings. Going to the starting line was the first time she ever sailed anything. Was great fun and we did not do too bad. Just had to help her a bit with sheeting in the spi in marginal sub-trapeze conditions. The T is in my opinion a nice boat to sail mixed, the only thing we found bothersome was pulling the boat up the ramp after sailing.
Girls taking on the boys? What F-class have the right competitive weight range for that?

After digesting yesterdays "landmark" event, I think we should use this as an opportunity. I dont think we should go our own ways and ignore ISAF or even provoking "them" just to call an even a worlds. I think the only way to improve the situatiuon is to get involved in clubs, regions, national assocs. and finally ISAF. I know it's a bit different in the US, but looking at my own club and country I think this is the best way of improving the situation. If I really want to, I am pretty certain I can rise in the hierarchy quite fast as volunters are far between. Something to consider.

#122690 - 11/10/07 04:10 AM Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: Rolf_Nilsen]  
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Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Fanning the fire a bit. Attached is a photo of the actual ballot which was used as an illustration on the ISAF website today.
[Linked Image]

As we can see, the multihull started out with an handicap. Knowing a bit about how meetings and votes works, having an extra vote if the multihull was selected and needing footnotes to explain is not good.

I still hold to what I said above tough. Smarter to work to change things from the inside than going on alone.

Attached Files
#122691 - 11/10/07 06:12 AM Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: Rolf_Nilsen]  
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stuartoffer Offline
journeyman
stuartoffer  Offline
journeyman

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Prress release un UKCRA

News Release 10 November 2007

ISAF RULES CATAMARANS OUT OF OLYMPICS


Yesterday, the ISAF Council voted against any Multihull Event for the 2012 Olympic Games to be held in Britain. It decided that in future the only sailing boats to be raced should have one hull.

In doing so, it voted against the fastest boat at the Games, the only Event Open to both Men and Women, a permanent fixture for three decades, the recommendation of its own Events Committee, the strong endorsement of the host nation, and a sport invented in Britain.

The international catamaran community is shocked at the ISAF decision. “The bottom line right now is that Multihull sailing has no seat at the ISAF table. And, ISAF has voted that it is a monohull organization” according to Mike Grandfield (US), Chairman of the International Tornado Association, the Olympic Multihull.

“This is has nothing to do with objective assessment of Olympic selection criteria, but everything to do with sailing politics” says Nick Dewhirst, Chairman of UKCRA, the UK Catamaran Racing Association.

That is backed by David Brookes (AUS), the ISAF Representative for Hobie Cats: “It is disappointing as we did have the votes until the US Delegation did a “deal” with the 470 Class at the expense of the multihulls.”

While ISAF Chairman, Goran Petersson’s (SWE) statement says “The ten events chosen for the London Games provide a perfect showcase of the wide range and diversity of sailing”, Dewhirst believes this is patently not so.

He says that you can sail in the Games standing up, with a lump of metal to slow you down, in something slow or unpopular and with one, two or three men in a boat, but you can’t do what the sailing public wants, which is to sail the fastest and most exciting kind of boat with a member of the opposite sex, because it has two hulls. You can’t race in either the third most popular boat in the world (Hobie Cat) or the fastest one (Tornado), so if the Sailing Regatta is not about diversity, popularity or excitement, what does ISAF think it is about?

The International Olympic Committee has already sent ISAF a warning that sailing is at risk by cutting back the number of its Events. This decision increases the likelihood that the whole Sailing Regatta could be thrown out of the Games entirely, as some nations see it as white, rich and exclusive.

- ends -

Note to editors:
See also www.imsaf.org, www.isaf.org, and www.rya.org.uk
Media contacts:
Public Relations: Chris Laming on +44 (0) 7711 118196
Chairman: Nick Dewhirst on +44 (0) 1227 282625

#122692 - 11/10/07 06:24 AM Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: stuartoffer]  
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MarkMT Offline
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MarkMT  Offline
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Lake Zurich, IL
Quote
That is backed by David Brookes (AUS), the ISAF Representative for Hobie Cats: “It is disappointing as we did have the votes until the US Delegation did a “deal” with the 470 Class at the expense of the multihulls.”


Did I miss this? Is this true? What was the deal?

And who are these guys? http://www.imsaf.org/

Am I the only person who has never heard of them?

#122693 - 11/10/07 06:46 AM Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: MarkMT]  
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Posts: 64
wirebound Offline
journeyman
wirebound  Offline
journeyman

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Posts: 64
ISAF at it's best

http://rule69blog.com/

#122694 - 11/10/07 06:54 AM Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: Rolf_Nilsen]  
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MarkMT Offline
old hand
MarkMT  Offline
old hand

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Posts: 1,022
Lake Zurich, IL
Rolf, I do think the Olympic situation should force us to re-evaluate the state of the sport (of catamaran sailing) and the best ways to nurture its future development. And I applaud your eagerness to get involved. Personally though, at the moment I am struggling to convince myself that activism within the monohull sailing world is going to be the best use of our energy.

It seems unlikely to me that a catamaran is going to be put back into the Olympics anytime soon regardless of how much effort is put into that objective, so I don't see that as a rationale for getting involved in the broader world of sailing administration. And if our goal is to grow sport, I'm not seeing a lot that the mono world is likely to do to help us. I'm not suggesting disconnecting from that world, but if we're looking for the best ways to use our time and energy to promote cat sailing, my feeling is that it's going to involve doing so directly, and doing it ourselves.

#122695 - 11/10/07 07:15 AM Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: MarkMT]  
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 64
wirebound Offline
journeyman
wirebound  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 64
Just got this e-mail:

Dear sailor

I attach a copy of UKCRA's recent press release regarding ISAF's recent decision removing the multihull from the Olympics. The press release can also be found at www.asnr29.dsl.pipex.com/UKCRA_Press_Release_20071110.doc

UKCRA have also set up a new petition, this one being aimed at the IOC. If you disagree with ISAF's recent decision then please sign the petition which can be found at http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/multihullinolympics/index.html

Please send the press release and petition address to all sailors and any media contact you may have.

Regards

Jon Worthington

Attached Files
#122696 - 11/10/07 07:28 AM Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: MarkMT]  
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Posts: 4,451
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Mark,

I am thinking "infiltration" of the current power structures becouse thats the fastest way to gain influence. Building something new will be expensive, hard and take much time. Getting into the current structure is relatively easy (lack of volunteers) and there is money, resources and power available for grabs. If "we" dont get involved and strike out on our own lots of doors can be closed even down to the club level. At least this is my current thinking with my experience from Europe and Scandinavia.


I hope Ian Walker is right, and the ISAF council rethinks, but I dont think it is likely. Nice blog btw.

#122697 - 11/10/07 08:28 AM Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: Rolf_Nilsen]  
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
from Ian Walker's blog:

Quote
Blimey, this is a fast moving story....Okay so now it's the Triceratornadotops that's getting the chop from the Olympics and the Dinostar and Finnasaurus are staying in the Games for 2012...it seems like whenever the music stops there's a different outcome with these ridiculous ISAF committee meetings. Worth noting too that this round of pointless discussions could all come to nought when the ISAF Council or "Long-Lunch Brigade" as they're fondly known, meet up over brandies in a month's time - they have a long history of overturning the committee decisions so in all honesty, no-one has a clue what the boats are going to be in 2012...



Classic stuff !


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
#122698 - 11/10/07 09:55 AM Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: Catfan]  
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,920
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
PTP  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,920
Michigan
The only experience/exposure to ISAF I have is through this website and no one ever seemed to like them anyway. Soooo . . . let them rot in hell. Sounds like a bunch of jackasses anyway.
Only problem is everyone realizing that and dumping the whole sport.

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