| Re: high wind bearaway techniques
[Re: davefarmer]
#125173 12/01/07 11:31 PM 12/01/07 11:31 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | I'm comfortable powering upwind in 20 kts+, and once the spin is launched it's plenty easy to control. But I don't feel like I've got a fool proof plan for making the turn downwind in these conditions. Care to offer your ideas/strategies? I tend to drop the traveller 10 or 12 inches, and when she approaches a beam reach I'm inclined to sheet out the main to keep the hull down, all the while maintaining boatspeed and turning as fast as possible. But the main needs to come back in pretty quickly so as to not have a bunch sail area up high perpendicular to the wind once she's pointed deep. That seems like a lot of sheeting in and out to be done while paying attention to my driving(often solo or with only moderately experienced crew). If I don't get it close to right it gets a bit spooky. Is there a better way?
Dave
A cat F18HT Flight Risk Sounds like you've pretty much got it figured out (although I would drop the traveler all the way).
Jake Kohl | | | Re: high wind bearaway techniques
[Re: davefarmer]
#125175 12/02/07 05:57 AM 12/02/07 05:57 AM |
Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 145 Cheshire, UK Simon
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Posts: 145 Cheshire, UK | Hi, I am not hugely experienced but have become comfortable in heavy weather (say gusting 30 knots or so) even in heavy chop... in a nutshell, we get the crew in, I sit right at the beam, we dump everything (jib, traveller and mainsheet a good armful, but keep hold for sheeting in again straight away), and as we do that, the crew throws themselves across my lap and hangs onto the rear beam, pinning us both at the back of the boat). Then round she goes from beating to a run, and head straight downwind while centering the traveller and sheeting in, and get the jib under control. Most of the time we leave the boards where they are (we rarely adjust them between up/downwind) if it is that windy, I don't want the crew on the leeward hull, and we have found we can cope with the boards where they are. Gybing in those conditions is through the smallest angle possible, and usually with the traveller centered - I grab the falls and push them over to anticipate the gybe.
This works for me on Spitfire (16 feet) and Nacra 6.0 (20 feet). The key is find a crew who'll throw themselves across your lap!
I'm yet to try it single-handed.
Simon Shadow 067 | | | Re: high wind bearaway techniques
[Re: davefarmer]
#125179 12/02/07 01:51 PM 12/02/07 01:51 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | Jake, So you blow the traveller entirely? And are you almost immediately travelling and sheeting back in? Can you do this by yourself? Pin the tiller extension while sheeting? It seems like a handful, with little room for error. Thanks for the reply!
Dave Yes, I do blow it entirely (or 90% there). Sometimes it does take an extra couple of seconds to get the main in and if it's coming in a little slow, I ask the crew to wait to sheet in the kite until the main is firm enough to support the mast. I try to keep the boat as flat as possible coming around so the crew can get the kite up easier.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: high wind bearaway techniques
[Re: Jake]
#125180 12/02/07 04:52 PM 12/02/07 04:52 PM | Anonymous
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Unregistered | Dave:
On the little 4.3 it is just me. When I go around the weather mark I release maybe a foot or two of mainsheet, depending on wind (leave the traveler set like going to weather, I know seems weird, but you will go 4 times faster this way, do to apparent wind), head on the downwind course, drop the tiller and grab the spin halyard line and go hand over hand till it is up. THEN I grab the tiller and trim spin. Once the apparent wind is flowing good from the spin, I will then trim the main and blade jib till the telltales or flowing. Really easy once you have done it a few times. I LOVE having a spin boat. OH, if a puff hits, head down quick, but not to far (as said, easy to gybe) or you will go over quick.
Good Luck,
Doug
Last edited by DougSnell; 12/02/07 04:58 PM.
| | | Re: high wind bearaway techniques
[Re: davefarmer]
#125181 12/02/07 05:44 PM 12/02/07 05:44 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | Jake, So you blow the traveller entirely? And are you almost immediately travelling and sheeting back in? Can you do this by yourself? Pin the tiller extension while sheeting? It seems like a handful, with little room for error. Thanks for the reply!
Dave I do usually drop the tiller to sheet in quickly. The I20, once you've got her pointed properly downhill, will stay there long enough for you to sheet back in. If I really feel like "going for it", I'll stay out on the wire for the turn...but after having turned sharply enough to have my feet leave the hull, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be faster to have my butt planted on the hull for a snappy turn instead. But as shown in this picture, I can get the main back in before the kite is up.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: high wind bearaway techniques
[Re: bvining]
#125184 12/02/07 07:41 PM 12/02/07 07:41 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | Dave, The HT loves to dig the bows in downwind when the chute isnt up. The combination of a very tall mast and skinny bows and you've got a recipe for a nice pitchpole on bearaway and running downwind in gusty over 30knot conditions.
I really pay attention to weight placement. Get your crew back when you turn. Also contrary to all other opinions discussed here, I sheet in once the turn is made, the sail presents less volume to the wind if you sheet in, so think about sheeting in and travelling in if its really windy.
And get the chute up quick, its your best insurance against digging the bows in.
Bill I wasn't contrary to that.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: high wind bearaway techniques
[Re: bvining]
#125185 12/02/07 09:47 PM 12/02/07 09:47 PM |
Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 713 WA, ID, MT davefarmer OP
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Posts: 713 WA, ID, MT | Hey Bill, You put your finger on my reason for thinking about this so much. The bows are VERY fine, and there's lots of sail way up high! Particularly after the SC20, which when driven properly, was very resistant to stuffing a bow. So I want to perfect my technique. It has me thinking about T foil rudders as well to further address this issue. But yeah, I'm good about getting crew weight aft. And I'm spending a fair amount of time trying to engineer the smoothest hoist/retrieval system I can come up with, so that the chute can go up fast. I,m favoring the SNU snuffer, figuring out the hlyd/tackline arrangement(one line hoist), choosing the most appropriate taperable hlyd(and lengths), determining spin sheet attachment to clew, new autoratchets, all with a bunch of much appreciated input from you guys. Which is hugely appreciated, as there are few F18s and similar boats nearby to check out. And I agree with Jake that everyone seemed to be suggesting, as you did, that the main goes out breifly, and quickly sheeted back in. Thanks all!
Dave | | | Re: high wind bearaway techniques
[Re: Jake]
#125187 12/03/07 07:31 AM 12/03/07 07:31 AM |
Joined: Oct 2002 Posts: 1,226 Atlanta bvining
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Quote: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave, The HT loves to dig the bows in downwind when the chute isnt up. The combination of a very tall mast and skinny bows and you've got a recipe for a nice pitchpole on bearaway and running downwind in gusty over 30knot conditions.
I really pay attention to weight placement. Get your crew back when you turn. Also contrary to all other opinions discussed here, I sheet in once the turn is made, the sail presents less volume to the wind if you sheet in, so think about sheeting in and travelling in if its really windy.
And get the chute up quick, its your best insurance against digging the bows in.
Bill
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I wasn't contrary to that.
Sorry, I was drunk when I wrote that. | | | Re: high wind bearaway techniques
[Re: bvining]
#125188 12/03/07 07:57 AM 12/03/07 07:57 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina |
Quote: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave, The HT loves to dig the bows in downwind when the chute isnt up. The combination of a very tall mast and skinny bows and you've got a recipe for a nice pitchpole on bearaway and running downwind in gusty over 30knot conditions.
I really pay attention to weight placement. Get your crew back when you turn. Also contrary to all other opinions discussed here, I sheet in once the turn is made, the sail presents less volume to the wind if you sheet in, so think about sheeting in and travelling in if its really windy.
And get the chute up quick, its your best insurance against digging the bows in.
Bill
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I wasn't contrary to that.
Sorry, I was drunk when I wrote that. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Jake Kohl | | | Re: high wind bearaway techniques
[Re: Jake]
#125189 12/03/07 12:58 PM 12/03/07 12:58 PM |
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 164 I20RI
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Posts: 164 | The # 1 consideration is weight as far aft as possible, usually I stay on the wire all the way at as I can be ad my crew sits on the rear beam and readies for the hoist. The aim here is to keep the rudders in the water as much as it is to keep the bows up. No rudders, no steering. I try not to sheet out the main at all, maybe a foot at most, but I will travel all the way down. Keep in mind the spin is about to go up and masts break when the main is sheeted out.
Consideration 1a is turn down QUICKLY!. I try to get to a very broad reach with as much haste as possible. Once the spin is up, no problem.
So 1- weight aft 2- turn down fast
I always had the weight aft part down, but once i figured out that I had to get deep really really fast my incidences of pitchpoling basically ended, even in 30kts plus
good luck,
charlie
Granted the I20 is a tough boat to pitchpole, but believe me, it can be done. I have found this technique works on the HT as well. | | |
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