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Zhik PFD #129066
01/17/08 12:33 PM
01/17/08 12:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 334
Thunder Bay ON CAN
M
mmadge Offline OP
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Thunder Bay ON CAN
Rick I seen in your latest Cat Sailor Magazine that you are promoting the new Zhik PFD.Are you aware that it is not USGA approved.Is ther any talk of it becomming approved?
I actually just bought one and am hoping not to get protested for wearing it.

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Zhik PFD [Re: mmadge] #129067
01/17/08 01:45 PM
01/17/08 01:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 263
SC
zander Offline
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According to Mike Krantz you can only be protested if the SI's specifically state that a "USCG approved PFD" is necessary, If the SI's only require a "PFD" then you are OK. Mike is driving to FL right now so maybe he can chime in when he gets settled.


Always borrow money from a pessimist. He won't expect it back.
Re: Zhik PFD [Re: mmadge] #129068
01/17/08 01:56 PM
01/17/08 01:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 271
Atlanta, Ga
BLR_0719 Offline
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Atlanta, Ga
I wonder how many crybabies out there would protest a sailor for not wearing a Coast Guard approved life jacket.

I personally wouldn't care if you wore those inflatable floaties that slide on your arm



Re: Zhik PFD [Re: BLR_0719] #129069
01/17/08 02:17 PM
01/17/08 02:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Be careful here guys, some class rules also rule that a bouyancy aid that is approved by the local authority must be worn while racing. So it is not just the SI's

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Zhik PFD [Re: zander] #129070
01/17/08 02:21 PM
01/17/08 02:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
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Detroit, MI
Quote
According to Mike Krantz you can only be protested if the SI's specifically state that a "USCG approved PFD" is necessary, If the SI's only require a "PFD" then you are OK. Mike is driving to FL right now so maybe he can chime in when he gets settled.


There's a problem when the class' rules require it, though.

For example, in the IHCA (Hobie) Class Rules, it states in the "General Rules" section:
Quote
8. SAFETY EQUIPMENT
8.1 Each person on board shall carry a lifesaving
device or Personal Flotation Device (PFD) approved
by their country’s national authority or by
the national authority having jurisdiction. The
IHCA strongly recommends that life jackets or
PFDs be worn at all times.


Sailing Instructions can only change a class rule by stating the rule number and the change (RRS 86.1(b))

But since you guys rarely/never race Hobie One-Design, you don't have to worry about it. mmadge does. All it takes is one jerk who wants to improve his score at your expense. Guaranteed the protest won't come until the last day of an event.

Re: Zhik PFD [Re: mbounds] #129071
01/17/08 02:56 PM
01/17/08 02:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,121
Eastern NC, USA
T
tshan Offline
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Eastern NC, USA
The item in question is really comfortable and well made. It does; however, come with a big tag thats says "THIS IS NOT A LIFESAVING DEVICE"...

It'd be interesting to know the intent of it becoming approved.


Tom
Re: Zhik PFD [Re: mbounds] #129072
01/17/08 03:27 PM
01/17/08 03:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
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brucat Offline
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Quote
Sailing Instructions can only change a class rule by stating the rule number and the change (RRS 86.1(b))


Except, doesn't ISAF Regulation 26.5(f) apply and restrict changing the class rules for the ISAF-recognized classes?

Quote
But since you guys rarely/never race Hobie One-Design, you don't have to worry about it.


I was always under the impression that if you race in an open event, you're supposed to follow your class rules. I know there are adjustments for equipment changes (adding a chute, etc.), but isn't there a general assumption that you will race your boat to its class rules?

I agree though, most likely, no one would ever protest you until after the racing, and usually only if they had something to gain. An OA might protest you depending on the level of the event, if there were on-water judges present, etc.

Mike

Re: Zhik PFD [Re: brucat] #129073
01/17/08 04:13 PM
01/17/08 04:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
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Detroit, MI
Quote
Quote
Sailing Instructions can only change a class rule by stating the rule number and the change (RRS 86.1(b))


Except, doesn't ISAF Regulation 26.5(f) apply and restrict changing the class rules for the ISAF-recognized classes?


You're digging deep, Mike - I was trying to keep it simple. My point was that it's more likely that an SI would make an ineffective change than somebody would remember Reg 26.

Quote
Quote
But since you guys rarely/never race Hobie One-Design, you don't have to worry about it.


I was always under the impression that if you race in an open event, you're supposed to follow your class rules. I know there are adjustments for equipment changes (adding a chute, etc.), but isn't there a general assumption that you will race your boat to its class rules?


How many protests for class rules violations occur in a Portsmouth class? Do you think the PC is going to have a copy of the IHCA / NACRA / whatever class rules handy?

The point was that you're less likely to get protested in an open class than in a fleet of one-designs.

Quote
I agree though, most likely, no one would ever protest you until after the racing, and usually only if they had something to gain. An OA might protest you depending on the level of the event, if there were on-water judges present, etc.

Mike

Re: Zhik PFD [Re: mmadge] #129074
01/17/08 04:37 PM
01/17/08 04:37 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 334
Seattle,Wa
Don_Atchley Offline
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Seattle,Wa
Would your insurance pay out on a claim if it came to light that you were not wearing the required equipment?

Would the regatta insurance honor the claim if the event cordinators failed to ensure the proper equipment was worn?

Once they (race committe have knowledge, if they choose to do nothing I beleive they can be called negligent and therefore liable. (?)

Just wondering...


Hobie Tiger 2003
Re: Zhik PFD [Re: Don_Atchley] #129075
01/17/08 05:06 PM
01/17/08 05:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
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brucat Offline
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Thanks Matt, just confirming that I understand the rules correctly. I agree, the instances you list above happen every day, and rarely get pushed.

Don has some excellent reasons they maybe should be pushed. After someone is hurt it's too late to try to enforce the rules.

On a philisophical note, there could be a Catch-22 if you want to require an SI that modifies a class rule without realizing it (like Matt said, it would be tough to know all the rules for all the beach cats that could come out of the woodwork for an open event). If you stated that a specific type of lifejacket was required, but that conflicted with class rules (and you didn't follow Reg 26), what would that do? Fortunately, there aren't that many ISAF-recognized cat classes, so I guess an OA could spend some time reading all of those rules, but yikes...

I have seen some SIs for open mono events that are liberal with their class rule "over-rides," such as allowing (or prohibiting) VHF, etc. They don't list all the specific class rules they are changing, they just say something to the effect of "this takes precedence over individual class rules." Not sure how that technically would hold up.

Yes, it's winter... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Mike

Re: Zhik PFD [Re: tshan] #129076
01/17/08 05:08 PM
01/17/08 05:08 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



Quote
The item in question is really comfortable and well made. It does; however, come with a big tag thats says "THIS IS NOT A LIFESAVING DEVICE"...

It'd be interesting to know the intent of it becoming approved.


I wonder if those "water noodles" come with a tag that says, "not intended as source of nutrition".

Re: Zhik PFD [Re: Don_Atchley] #129077
01/17/08 06:01 PM
01/17/08 06:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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Mark Schneider  Offline
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Annapolis, MD
Quote
Would the regatta insurance honor the claim if the event cordinators failed to ensure the proper equipment was worn?


Hmm.... Who would be PRO of an event where they were responsible for a saftey equipment check?

You have extended regatta liability to a ridiculous level.

The RC... runs a race.. The CAPTAIN of the Vessel is responsible for saftey.

The minute you try to be Regatta Nanny... you take responsibility from the sailor... and move it to the regatta staff. BAD MOVE

Note... the Chicago to Mac Race has a HUGE saftey equipment check list.

Do you think they check the hundreds of boats out before they go racing.

NO!...

They check the winning boats out to ensure they followed the rules of the game....

Its a Corinthian sport!

If the race required a tiki girl doll on board and you did not have one... Oh well.. there goes your trophy... to the next best finisher with a tiki girl doll on board.

Many state laws require a PFD thowable on your vessel.... Do you carry one? No! .. Do you think the regatta staff should enforce this state law?

Heck If the marine police wanted to write some citations... they could ticket the entire regatta.

But did you break a racing rule.... nope!

Keep the two things seperate... Racing is not the same as liability and saftey at sea.

Last edited by Mark Schneider; 01/17/08 10:23 PM.

crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Zhik PFD [Re: Mark Schneider] #129078
01/17/08 06:12 PM
01/17/08 06:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
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Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Coast Guard also says you must have one type I,II,III,or V onboard for every member ... If it doesn't fall in those categories it wouldn't pass a check. Unlikely you'd get checked during a regatta but possible.
http://uscgboating.org/safety/fedreqs/equ_pfd.htm


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: Zhik PFD [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #129079
01/17/08 06:43 PM
01/17/08 06:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Northfield Mn
In Minnesota any boat over 16ft is supposed to carry a fire extinguisher. On a beach cat for what? I've been kinda hoping to get a ticket for that just for the entertainment of going to court.

Re: Zhik PFD [Re: Mark Schneider] #129080
01/17/08 08:17 PM
01/17/08 08:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
bvining Offline
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bvining  Offline
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Atlanta
Every boat that races Newport/Bermuda gets checked. I wouldnt be surprised if every boat in Chicago Mac gets checked.

Re: Zhik PFD [Re: brucat] #129081
01/17/08 09:53 PM
01/17/08 09:53 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 80
West Virginia
Soapysails Offline
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West Virginia
How many lawyers dose it take to sink a sport ? perhaps future RC's will need to address this in the NOR's I would be a bit up set if after driving many costly miles to an event, only to find out my favorite life vest was not acceptable. Auh, but thats just me..lol

Re: Zhik PFD [Re: Soapysails] #129082
01/17/08 10:17 PM
01/17/08 10:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mark Schneider  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
We do NOT need not re invent the wheel...

The 100th Chicago to Mac Race. (400 boat limit!)

Quote
16. RISK AND LIABILITY
The Chicago Yacht Club, its officers, directors, members, sponsors, employees and agents, the CYCMC, the Race Committee, the Chicago Yacht Club Race to Mackinac Jury and any other Committee of the Club shall not be liable for any injury or damage whatsoever to persons or property which may occur during or arise out of or in connection with this Race Notice is hereby given to all participants including spectators, officials and others that they participate in this event solely at their own risk.
17. PHOTOGRAPHY

18. INSPECTION
An entered boat shall be subject to inspection by the Race Committee from 1200 CDT Wednesday prior to the Race until the boat has properly completed any post-race inspection and has properly completed its post-finish sign-in. The Race Committee may protest a boat failing to comply with any of the rules and regulations specified in this Notice and Conditions of Race, Notices to Competitors and Sailing Instructions.


Notice... Two points.

They don't have the now common (but useless)... proof of liability insurance requirement. In fact... they don't even bother with ANY recommendation for YOUR Liability protection. It's your business... they don't need to get involved in it.


The inspection process is random.... the practice is ... the winners and spot checks.

The list of what you need to have is Saftey Reg's for multi's .


With respect to the Zihk PFD.... IF it will do this... you are good to go! (32 lbs of flotation).

Quote
74. Personal Flotation Devices (PFDs) -- Each crew member sixteen (16) years of age or older shall have either:
1. a Type 1 U.S. Coast Guard approved PFD or,
2. an inflatable PFD having at least thirty-two (32) pounds buoyancy and designed to securely suspend an unconscious person face upwards at approximately forty-five (45) degrees to the water surface. All inflatable PFDs shall have a compressed gas inflation system. Inflatable PFDs need not have a water-activated auto-inflate system in order to satisfy this requirement. Belt pack PFDs with rip cord inflation providing at least thirty-two (32) pounds of buoyancy may be used to satisfy this requirement.
Each crew member under sixteen (16) years of age shall have a U.S. Coast Guard approved PFD appropriate for the crew member's age and weight and suitable for offshore sailing conditions, as determined by the Person-In-Charge.



We need not re invent the wheel... We do not need to get crazy about the legal stuff either.


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Zhik PFD [Re: Mark Schneider] #129083
01/17/08 11:27 PM
01/17/08 11:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 712
mikekrantz Offline
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Posts: 712
Here's a summary of the PFD situation. European countries require the PFD to be CE approved. The US requires the PFD to be USCG approved. Australia has their own requirement (however it accepts CE approval as legit), and so do some of the South American countries... For the most part they all require a certified construction and a minimum amount of bouyancy - pounds, newtons, etc. If you are an international athelete, you are required to have a whole bag full of PFD's if the SI's or class rules are specific enough to require a PFD that meets the local requirement. More and more often the SI's are being modified to specify a "PFD", no more, no less.

Meanwhile Zhik has chosen to adopt the European "CE" certification because at the moment it is being accepted in Europe and Australia - the majority of the worldwide sailing PFD market. The Zhik PFD is tagged as "Not Coast Guard Approved", and marketed as such. FWIW, Musto, Gill, and Magic Marine also market PFD's that are CE approved, not USCG approved. At this time the cost of getting USCG approval does not make economic sense for Zhik, nor any other non-US manufacturer.

Currently there is an international movement to adopt an ISO9001 standard that all countries can adopt, and end this entire process of certification within each authority.

Regards, Mike Krantz
Zhik USA

Re: Zhik PFD [Re: Mark Schneider] #129084
01/17/08 11:31 PM
01/17/08 11:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 334
Seattle,Wa
Don_Atchley Offline
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Seattle,Wa
Quote
You have extended regatta liability to a ridiculous level.


No, I was asking a question. Opening a line of discussion.

What is the insurance at a regatta for, and would it be jepeordized if they did not (at least in writing) mandate you follow the law.

Enforcement is another matter.

The Chicago race covers this by putting the list out and stating you must comply.

I remember in the 80's we all used to have throwables strapped down to the boat because it was required. None of them were usefull in their original purpose.


Hobie Tiger 2003
Re: Zhik PFD [Re: Don_Atchley] #129085
01/18/08 12:03 AM
01/18/08 12:03 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 851
US Western Continental Shelf
hobiegary Offline
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US Western Continental Shelf
Suggestion. Tie a USCG approved pfd to the boat; one for each passenger. The little co2 waste packs are pretty lightweight. Better yet, wear it on your waist.


Santa Monica Bay
Mystere 6.0 "Whisk" <--- R.I.P.
Re: Zhik PFD [Re: hobiegary] #129086
01/18/08 12:16 AM
01/18/08 12:16 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 334
Seattle,Wa
Don_Atchley Offline
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Quote
Suggestion. Tie a USCG approved pfd to the boat; one for each passenger. The little co2 waste packs are pretty lightweight. Better yet, wear it on your waist.


I can't sail without wearing mine.

But Gary, I think you've found a loophole that mirrors the throwables. I commend you for your creativity.

The only catch to that I think would be when they require you to actually wear the PFD. Don't they fly a specific flag?

Like I stated; I wear mine. I just can't push the envelope if I don't have it on. And when I hit the water, I just wait to get popped to the surface.


Hobie Tiger 2003
Re: Zhik PFD [Re: Don_Atchley] #129087
01/18/08 01:24 AM
01/18/08 01:24 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 851
US Western Continental Shelf
hobiegary Offline
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US Western Continental Shelf
To clarify my point: Wear the pfd of choice, even if it does not have the local authority tag. Attach a local authority tagged device also on the boat or on the sailor's body. Double the buoyancy.

GARY


Santa Monica Bay
Mystere 6.0 "Whisk" <--- R.I.P.
Re: Zhik PFD [Re: Don_Atchley] #129088
01/18/08 01:39 AM
01/18/08 01:39 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
arbo06 Offline
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Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
I was T-Boned by a 31' cabin cruiser while racing in a local race. I have never been the same since.

I never saw the power boat coming, I was sailing a H-20 on port tack, my 14 yeare old son on the wire, me still on the hull when we were plowed through the center, TBONED!
I bounced off the port hull of the offending craft as the mast drug my son under water with all of the trapeze hardware.
I popped up immediatly after the collision because I was not hooked up but I waited at least 10 seconds for my son to come to the surface (it was more like a lifetime).
When he came up, he popped at least a foot out of the water because of the PFD. He told me that he had to unhook under water because the mast was holding him down.(I can cry just thinking about this) This was the longest 10 seconds of my life, my mind was nutz.

My POV after that event is, DON'T SCREW AROUND, PROTECT YOURSELF AND YOUR CREW!!! COMFORT IS A FAR SECOND!!!

It doesn't matter what type of boating you do.. Invest in the best, it will serve you and you might live to tell about it.

Re: Zhik PFD [Re: arbo06] #129089
01/18/08 12:37 PM
01/18/08 12:37 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
Tornado Offline
veteran
Tornado  Offline
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Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
Might be stirring up a hornets nest, but take a look at this Zhik:

[Linked Image]
Note the white stitching where the shell has been opened to remove floation and re-stitched.

This to reduce the windage of the vest!

Last edited by Tornado; 01/18/08 12:40 PM.
Re: Zhik PFD [Re: Tornado] #129090
01/18/08 01:30 PM
01/18/08 01:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mark Schneider  Offline
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Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Ok...

What is the problem?

Well, the coast guard would have a problem. the vest is not legal.
Zhik would have a problem and void any implied or stated warranty. The PR would be very bad for them.

His team mate might have a problem if the situation really sucks and he is unable to render assistance.

The Mark boat crew might have a problem in rendering assistance if they assumed his vest would perform as all of the other vests on the other sailors. So, they may not be able to help save his butt in some situations.

The guy's family might have a problem after the fact..

What about US... his competitors.

If he is a Hobie sailor.... he is violating the PFD approval rule. So he is breaking an equipment rule.

If he is a Tornado sailor. I don't remember a class PFD rule.

Where would you draw the line.


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Zhik PFD [Re: mikekrantz] #129091
01/19/08 12:06 AM
01/19/08 12:06 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 606
League City, TX
flumpmaster Offline
addict
flumpmaster  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 606
League City, TX
Quote
Here's a summary of the PFD situation. European countries require the PFD to be CE approved. The US requires the PFD to be USCG approved. Australia has their own requirement (however it accepts CE approval as legit), and so do some of the South American countries... For the most part they all require a certified construction and a minimum amount of bouyancy - pounds, newtons, etc. If you are an international athelete, you are required to have a whole bag full of PFD's if the SI's or class rules are specific enough to require a PFD that meets the local requirement. More and more often the SI's are being modified to specify a "PFD", no more, no less.

Meanwhile Zhik has chosen to adopt the European "CE" certification because at the moment it is being accepted in Europe and Australia - the majority of the worldwide sailing PFD market. The Zhik PFD is tagged as "Not Coast Guard Approved", and marketed as such. FWIW, Musto, Gill, and Magic Marine also market PFD's that are CE approved, not USCG approved. At this time the cost of getting USCG approval does not make economic sense for Zhik, nor any other non-US manufacturer.

Currently there is an international movement to adopt an ISO9001 standard that all countries can adopt, and end this entire process of certification within each authority.

Regards, Mike Krantz
Zhik USA


USCG Type II PFDs (the type often worn by Cat Sailors in the USA) are required to have a minimum of 15.5 lbs of flotation.

The Zhik PFD is approved to CE EN 393 50 N which has a minimum flotation standard of 5 kg (11 lbs).

Both the Zhik and Magic Marine PFDs appear to be more low profile than offerings that meet USCG Type II - which suggests that they have less foam and therefore less flotation.

I'm not suggesting that the CE EN 393 compliant jackets are significantly less safe - but people should be aware of the differences and consider the conditions under which they race or sail when selecting a PFD. For example sailing on inland or protected waters in warm conditions and with safety boats versus sailing offshore in cooler water without support.

The 35lbs of flotation that Mark referred to is for Type I PFDs are are designed to keep the wearers face above water even when unconscious. I have not seen many catsailors wear this type because of the reduction in mobility and lack of comfort when sat on a trampoline.

Chris.


Dave Ingram is my president. tcdyc rules
Re: Zhik PFD [Re: Mark Schneider] #129092
01/19/08 12:07 AM
01/19/08 12:07 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 953
Western Australia
Stewart Offline
old hand
Stewart  Offline
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Posts: 953
Western Australia
If the sailor wears a wet suit he/she should have no issues with sinking. A 6mm steamer has serious buoyancy.

Saying that, even skiffies wear pdfs approved to required standards. Generally they aren't needed BUT its insurance one should never leave on the beach!! Tampering with a pdf is "darwin award" material..

I would guess the ISAF classes are are required to uphold the ISAF rules on pdfs.. So I'm guessing that if the sailor is on a T then the boat is open to disqualification.

Re: Zhik PFD [Re: Stewart] #129093
01/19/08 02:01 AM
01/19/08 02:01 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 3,969
I've never understood the issue with wearing a PFD, but I know it's a hot button for a lot of people. One argument that comes up a bit is that you can be trapped under a tramp and be unable to swim down to get away. I sort of think it's like the seat belt argument, in some instances, wearing a seat belt might put you in a position to be killed, while being thrown from the vehicle might let you live. I don't want to test it, but it seems to me that the overwhelming odds are in favor of wearing PFDs and seat belts.

Anyway, whether a PFD is approved or not can be the subject of a protest, like any other equipment rule. I'm not a lawyer, so I won't speculate about how far an OA or RC should go with this, but there are some expectations that the rules be upheld.

Generally speaking in the Hobie classes, we won't protest a boat for an equipment issue without first speaking to a sailor and giving him the chance to retire. This normally comes after a competitor brings it to our attention, or we're able to see it on the water. If a competitor sees it, it should be up to them to protest, but if it's a major event, the IJ would make the appropriate inspection and decide whether a protest is warranted.

Mike

Re: Zhik PFD [Re: Mark Schneider] #129094
01/19/08 02:45 AM
01/19/08 02:45 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Mark,

tampering with a PFD to gain an advantage, no matter how small, theoretical or phsycological to gain an advantage is both unethical and very stupid in my opinion. I am no great supporter of bureaucracy, but even I see the dangers of tampering with PFDs and the signal effects. Darwin award material indeed.

Usually the NOR demands PFDs to be used, not class rules?

Re: Zhik PFD [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #129095
01/19/08 08:02 AM
01/19/08 08:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
mbounds  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
The requirement for PFD's is normally found in the sailing instructions.

The NOR is used to communicate basic information for the decision to enter a race.

The SI's are used to communicate the intentions of the RC and the obligations of the competitors.

The Hobie Class Rules specify the type of PFD, not that it be worn. That is either done via the SI's ("PDF's shall be worn at all times while racing" or "PFD's shall be worn at all times while on the water except brief periods while changing clothing") or by the display of code flag "Y" no later than the warning signal of a race (RRS 40.1).

Re: Zhik PFD [Re: flumpmaster] #129096
01/19/08 08:15 AM
01/19/08 08:15 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

Quote

The Zhik PFD is approved to CE EN 393 50 N which has a minimum flotation standard of 5 kg (11 lbs).



Such vest are not called lifevests but bouyancy aids. They do NOT rescue you, The idea behind these vests is that they allow you to float your face (mouth and nose) above the watersurface without excerting yourself with swimming or watertreading, even when packed with gear and clothing. As such you can survive longer as you cool down your body temperature less rapidly and don't waste energy. Basically your body will shut down all blood circulation to your limbs and only concentrate it to your torso. It is numbing and painful but you'll survive longer. It also allows you to survive when your muscles cramp up as, again, you don't need to watertread or swim to prevent yourself from dissappearing below the watersurface.

It is actually a swimming aid and not a rescue devise.

There is also a reasoning that too much positive floation or a real lifevest can be dangerous. These can pin you underneath your craft as it can be very hard to swim downwards against the provided floatation to clear any obstacles. I also think that the lack of croin belts is a design choice to be able to quickly removed the vest when needed.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Zhik PFD [Re: Wouter] #129097
01/19/08 10:03 AM
01/19/08 10:03 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
PTP  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
The Astral Newton is categorized as a bouyancy aid also. I use it and it works well but clearly less bouyancy than a full PFD (surprise). Is nicer though because it is less bulky.
I think it is inexcusable to sail a cat without wearing a PFD but I think a bouyancy aid fits my requirement.

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