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Re: TinCan Tri [Re: Darryn] #129505
01/23/08 05:43 PM
01/23/08 05:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,116
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,116
Northfield Mn
He's going to die a very lonely death. I'm all for adventure but it doesn't look promising.

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: TinCan Tri [Re: Tornado] #129506
01/23/08 06:09 PM
01/23/08 06:09 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Quote
Looks very weak for the racking it will need to take.
All welded alloy...so he's lost the temper strength at the weld areas.
Yikes!


Yeah, but from the first post, I thought it sounded like he is just going to "cruise" around the world -- not like he is trying to set a record or anything. I can't imagine "cruising" in that, though. It's going to be pretty hard to pick up women along the way with that coffin cabin. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Re: TinCan Tri [Re: Mary] #129507
01/23/08 10:14 PM
01/23/08 10:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 805
Gainesville, FL 32607 USA
dacarls Offline
old hand
dacarls  Offline
old hand
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 805
Gainesville, FL 32607 USA
I saw Pen Duick IV sailing, the morning after she arrived a day ahead of Windward Passage's winning finish in the TransPac- at Diamond Head. We had sailed out from the AlaWai Harbor on a nice 27 ft leaner to the finish line to see WP come in early on a beautiful morning. Then I heard this sizzling noise and just to weather of us was PenDuick IV, looking like a huge grey spider on 3 sticks, screaming past us at way more than twice our speed, both full battened sails sheeted in tight, big jib drawing. Absolutely breath-taking I thought. Incroyable as they say in France! A chill went down my backbone, and I knew right then I would be sailing multihulls forever! Not to make a point of it (HAH!), Taberly sailed about 2 miles to weather, sailed around Windward Passage that was herself under full spinnaker and really hauling the mail. Taberly then put up his chute, passed WP easily, and ran way ahead past the Diamond head buoy. Then he repeated this "in your face" gesture, going back to weather, passing and jibing then popping his chute and zooming ahead WP a second time past the Diamond Head Buoy.
I guess monohull sailors get furious about this kind of showing off. What, was he supposed to go as slow? I thought it was fantastic and thus changed my life. Nobody at the Waikiki Yacht Club liked this boat.
The novice sailor under discussion would have done well to do some engineering research by looking seriously at Taberly's excellent design. It looks awful to me: I was there and have seen the real Elephant.


Dacarls:
A-class USA 196, USA 21, H18, H16
"Nothing that's any good works by itself. You got to make the damn thing work"- Thomas Edison
Re: TinCan Tri [Re: SurfCityRacing] #129508
01/24/08 04:43 PM
01/24/08 04:43 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,197
Vancouver, BC
Tornado Offline OP
old hand
Tornado  Offline OP
old hand
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,197
Vancouver, BC
Quote
I'm heading up to the city Thurs. Who knows where it is? Looks like East Bay somewhere from the pix. I don't know a boat yard in SF with that many weeds in the background. Vallejo, Berkeley, Oaktown, Alameda? I'll go check it out if someone let's me know.


I think I have a bead on location for you...

Napa CA


Mike Dobbs
Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
Re: TinCan Tri [Re: Tornado] #129509
01/28/08 10:35 AM
01/28/08 10:35 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 297
R
rexdenton Offline
enthusiast
rexdenton  Offline
enthusiast
R
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 297
It hope he can find only flat sea...I would question the potential for severe torsional stress in an ocean swell. It is my hope that he gets a few engineer's opinions before taking his design into blue water.


Nacra F18 #856
Re: TinCan Tri [Re: rexdenton] #129510
01/28/08 10:43 AM
01/28/08 10:43 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
F
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
An ocean going friend of mine once described blue water as any water that is deeper than your ankles and wider than your bath tub.

I hope this thing breaks up on launch, then maybe he won't drown.

Re: TinCan Tri [Re: dacarls] #129511
01/28/08 04:47 PM
01/28/08 04:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 77
Tiger Offline
journeyman
Tiger  Offline
journeyman
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 77
Quote
I saw Pen Duick IV sailing,...


Tabarly, Eric Tabarly. A God in France. He is the one who started the whole thing.

Re: TinCan Tri [Re: Tiger] #129512
01/31/08 01:58 AM
01/31/08 01:58 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 757
japan
erice Offline
old hand
erice  Offline
old hand
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 757
japan

wonder if he knows about this story

or cares

or cares about his wife/life

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/ar...in_page_id=1770


eric e
1982 nacra 5.2 - 2158
2009 weta tri - 294
Re: TinCan Tri [Re: erice] #129513
01/31/08 06:22 PM
01/31/08 06:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 213
Ohio
T
TeamTeets Offline
enthusiast
TeamTeets  Offline
enthusiast
T
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 213
Ohio
He is an author by trade... http://worldcat.org/oclc/60783049

And pictures from his story... turning this
[Linked Image]

into this
[Linked Image]

His website says he has "US Coast Guard 200 Ton Masters license and has sailed forty thousand miles offshore"

He already knows how to get rescued!


Mike, Ohio
Former H16, H18, N20, N17, M4.3
Re: TinCan Tri [Re: TeamTeets] #129514
01/31/08 09:17 PM
01/31/08 09:17 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 851
US Western Continental Shelf
hobiegary Offline
old hand
hobiegary  Offline
old hand
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 851
US Western Continental Shelf
Mike Teets, I must admire your observation of "he already knows how to get rescued!" This guy is obviously depending on being rescued from the mess that he is weaving for himself. It is very evident that he knows how to create a spectacle of himself and then get rescued.

Here is a noteworthy thread of discussion that I found to be quite interesting. bulletin board

All of the twisting forces that will be applied to his "ship" could possibly be absorbed by a laced and tied configuration used by our early ancestors. But to hard-weld some aluminum struts together and expect them to endure the weathers of the high seas, without testing or proving, is just a ridiculous undertaking.

I dream and hope for the day that Mr. Vann proves me wrong. But as a catamaran sailing explorer of my own frontier, I have to say that this guy is acting irresponsibly.

It appears to me that I did more testing, on a proven design, to visit a National Park that is within only 20-50 miles of my own country's shores, than did Mr. Vann in his plan to sail around the entire planet.

If this guy ever gets afloat, I am afraid that he will get far too much attention for what he deserves. In my view, he deserves to be condemned for this feat, unless he is asking to be considered, contemplated, confirmed for his ideas and risk taking. If considered, contemplated his plan will certainly be condemned by his peers.

Mr. Vann needs to request peer support, in which case he will certainly be grounded. Without the support of the sailing community, he should feel as though he is undertaking a dangerous risk that will likely result in the unnecessary risk of human life when those who care for his life will have to risk their own lives in trying to rescue him from the watery grave in which he seems determined to plunge himself into.

Note that Mr. Vann has mentioned not one, but two suicides that motivate him to make this endeavor.

<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

GARY

for example


Santa Monica Bay
Mystere 6.0 "Whisk" <--- R.I.P.
Re: TinCan Tri [Re: hobiegary] #129515
02/01/08 12:37 AM
02/01/08 12:37 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,301
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
TeamChums Offline
veteran
TeamChums  Offline
veteran
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,301
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
I am not a boat designer but I cant help but notice that he used "I" beams and sealed them in to make his amas and hull. He is counting on enough bouyancy from the air space created by boxing that junkyard crap in. For one, I dont think he calculated the weight vs bouyancy. He will have so little stability from those, I think the first time he takes any considerable wind from abeam, he will see what he is in for, if not capsize on the spot. Hopefully he will get this before going under the Golden Gate Bridge (he's in S.F. right?).
Now my professional opinion of the design, manufacturing and material of the boat... He's [email]fu@#&d![/email] I have been a fabricator for 20 years and have EXTENSIVE experience with alluminum. His design consists of trusses. If he gets far enough to take some punishing waves for a long time, it will take it's toll on every weld joint in those trusses. The strength comes from combining all those joints together. When one cracks, another takes the load that it was bearing and not in the way it was intended. Then more will surely follow. I take some pretty stupid risks sometimes but I would't take that thing on a Catalina Island crossing. I hope for his sake, I'm wrong. But if you read the blog about his family suicides, this is just his way of doing it as well and getting alot of bublicity for it. In a nutshell; everyone is supporting his idea of a public suicide. I wont feel sorry for him one bit but I will for his family.

Lee Wicklund/Team Chums


Lee

Sail fast or get the hell out of the way.
Re: TinCan Tri [Re: TeamChums] #129516
02/01/08 12:54 AM
02/01/08 12:54 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 851
US Western Continental Shelf
hobiegary Offline
old hand
hobiegary  Offline
old hand
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 851
US Western Continental Shelf
How do we, as a community, get his family to change his mind? Not my problem.

[Linked Image]

How do we, as a community offer some sympathy to his family?

GARY


Santa Monica Bay
Mystere 6.0 "Whisk" <--- R.I.P.
Re: TinCan Tri [Re: hobiegary] #129517
02/02/08 04:39 AM
02/02/08 04:39 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,197
Vancouver, BC
Tornado Offline OP
old hand
Tornado  Offline OP
old hand
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,197
Vancouver, BC
Blog has been updated:

TinCan

Expected to do some testing in SanFran bay on Sat., 2/9/08, depart for Southern Cal Sunday 2/10 and stop in San Diego if needed, else continue on for a "lap" <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


" Iím willing to pull into a port at any point during the trip if the boat doesnít seem safe or I just donít feel confident. Contrary to what some folks on sailing forums seem to think, Iím not insane or reckless"

He's being safe/cautious/careful and will take the time needed to be sure....Ya, right! Like letting his departure windows keep slipping by over 1 month while he hastily cobbles that crypt together. And, it's going be just fine 'cuz he's got buddies that will inform him if he's got bad weather coming, so he can put in and sit it out at the Cape, NZ etc. etc.

Does he realize that things like radios regularly fail in those conditions? Even his breakfast cereal is trying to stop him! Wonder if he's had his appendix out?

Gotta get someone in SanFran to get photos of this thing before it collapses.

If by some miracle he makes it to SD, maybe I'll see him from my Tboat...I'll be at the Midwinters event out of Mission Bay 2/16 & 17.


Mike Dobbs
Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
Re: TinCan Tri [Re: Tornado] #129518
02/02/08 06:05 AM
02/02/08 06:05 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
When you are in the souther ocean you can't just run and hide of a bad weather system. Land is often just to far away and it blows like stink there all the time ! Additionally, running high through the south Atlantic to avoid the roaring 40's and screaming 50's forces you to sail through the St Helena High pressure system (=no wind) of the coast of Africa. You can get becalmed for weeks there. People are known to have gone insane by only a few days of being becalmed.

Therefor I would call such a safety policy a fundamental flaw.

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 02/02/08 06:05 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: TinCan Tri [Re: Wouter] #129519
02/02/08 09:42 AM
02/02/08 09:42 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,116
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,116
Northfield Mn
I hope he packs some cyanide pills.


I'm boatless.
Re: TinCan Tri [Re: Karl_Brogger] #129520
02/02/08 11:44 AM
02/02/08 11:44 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 851
US Western Continental Shelf
hobiegary Offline
old hand
hobiegary  Offline
old hand
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 851
US Western Continental Shelf
Isn't hypothermia fairly quick and painless?

Re: TinCan Tri [Re: Wouter] #129521
02/02/08 12:04 PM
02/02/08 12:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,197
Vancouver, BC
Tornado Offline OP
old hand
Tornado  Offline OP
old hand
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,197
Vancouver, BC
I like the statement that he's taking the time to do a few more"safety improvements" to the craft...putting a couple of stays (he calls them "wires") from the ama bows to the main hull...and he's got all the engineering right because hese stays are angled right to prevent the amas from twisting the beams off.

This is hillbilly at best. Psychotic?


Mike Dobbs
Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
Re: TinCan Tri [Re: hobiegary] #129522
02/02/08 01:54 PM
02/02/08 01:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,116
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,116
Northfield Mn
That's only if it makes it to somewhere cold and then break up. I guess S.F. Bay isn't that warm, so maybe the hypothermia thing will pan out for him. I'd still pack something to end it quickly. Unfortunately it probably won't break up getting craned into the water. Aluminum prices are way up. He could recoupe some of his costs scrapping it at least that way.

Re: TinCan Tri [Re: Wouter] #129523
02/02/08 05:49 PM
02/02/08 05:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Keith Offline
veteran
Keith  Offline
veteran
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Quote
People are known to have gone insane by only a few days of being becalmed.


Me thinks he has a head start in this respect...

Re: TinCan Tri [Re: Tornado] #129524
02/03/08 11:36 AM
02/03/08 11:36 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,296
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,296
South Carolina
Quote
I like the statement that he's taking the time to do a few more"safety improvements" to the craft...putting a couple of stays (he calls them "wires") from the ama bows to the main hull...and he's got all the engineering right because hese stays are angled right to prevent the amas from twisting the beams off.

This is hillbilly at best. Psychotic?


Now when the amas break off, if he has just enough chance to tack the boat, it will stay attached long enough to completely destroy the main hull too - great idea.


Jake Kohl
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