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#133620 - 02/28/08 03:43 PM Actual real data from the GC in Zandvort 2007  
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macca Offline
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So due to the fact that Rolf has deleted my posts in the F16 weight thread, I now have to start a new F16 weight thread.... funny hey <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Below is exactly what I posted in the previous thread:-

Now back to the topic

Quote
There must be some correction on one answer. The average weight of the Blades measured during the Global Challenge is not 118 kg but 114.3 kg.

The lightest boat was carrying a carbon mast and weight 105.8 kg and the lightest one with alu mast was 109.8 kg.


So from this information posted by the class chairman: One boat was under min weight and the average weight was more than 7kgs over min!!! and more than 10kgs for the cat rigged boats!!!

Now in any other class that would be the instigator for a major discussion on how to deal with such a problem. The solutions are:-

a) raise the min weight to reflect the real world actual measured boats.
b) take the builders to task and demand that they build the boats from that point onwards to the min weight.

Problem with solution (b) is that you instantly render the current heavy boats obsolete (unless you don't think that extra weight makes any difference??)


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#133621 - 02/28/08 03:46 PM Re: Actual real data from the GC in Zandvort 2007 [Re: macca]  
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You are actually determined to be banned? How can it be made clear to you that this discussion is over, as it is not going anywhere? Come on, you are not stupid.

#133622 - 02/28/08 03:47 PM Re: Actual real data from the GC in Zandvort 2007 [Re: Rolf_Nilsen]  
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WHat is so wrong with posting the FACTS from the GC?


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#133623 - 02/28/08 03:49 PM Re: Actual real data from the GC in Zandvort 2007 [Re: macca]  
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Come on, now you are calling me stupid. Let it go. You have hit the proverbial concrete wall on this topic.

#133624 - 02/28/08 03:52 PM Re: Actual real data from the GC in Zandvort 2007 [Re: Rolf_Nilsen]  
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Nowhere in any of my posts have I called you stupid, in fact I have been perfectly civil in all my posts.

What exactly is the problem with me posting the FACTS from the GC showing the average sloop was more than 7kg over min weight and cats were more than 10kg overweight??

maybe I am the stupid one, but I fail to see the issue here?

Last edited by macca; 02/28/08 03:53 PM.

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#133625 - 02/28/08 03:53 PM Re: Actual real data from the GC in Zandvort 2007 [Re: Rolf_Nilsen]  
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Macca:
Whats your point? I havent been reading the threads, so keep it simple. What is the point with all this weight discussion?

#133626 - 02/28/08 03:55 PM Re: Actual real data from the GC in Zandvort 2007 [Re: Robi]  
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You really think I am stupid and dont see that you are harping on to have the min. weight raised. Jeez. Enough is enough, and you are at the end of that discussion.

#133627 - 02/28/08 03:55 PM Re: Actual real data from the GC in Zandvort 2007 [Re: Robi]  
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Quote
Macca:
Whats your point? I havent been reading the threads, so keep it simple. What is the point with all this weight discussion?


Simple: the current class rule for min weight is not reflective of the current fleet.


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#133628 - 02/28/08 03:56 PM Re: Actual real data from the GC in Zandvort 2007 [Re: Robi]  
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Robi, I think he thinks the class min. wt. should be raise to reflect the actual wts. from the Global Challenge.


Blade F16
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#133629 - 02/28/08 03:58 PM Re: Actual real data from the GC in Zandvort 2007 [Re: macca]  
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Your data is not valid, same with your intepretation of the facts.

The Viper was 137 kg, no wonder the AVERAGE of all boats is much higher then class weight. That Viper alone added (137-107)/10 = 30 kg/10 = 3 kg to all other boats ON AVERAGE.

It is like taking the average of the following series of numbers


1, 1 , 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 10

The average is 1.9 kg while the vast majority of numbers is actually only 1. An error of 90 % simply because one boat is such an outlier.

Then we had of course my own boat at 121.8 kg doing much of the same damage to the AVERAGE of all boats and singlehanders.

Basically, one needs to have only a few outliers to make the AVERAGE weight over a whole fleet totally undependable as we call such a thing in mathematics.

Again, no support for your opinion that F16's are heavy B'stards or that the class rules minimum is not reflective of the fleet.

Macca you should have finished high school then you have known about this stuff.

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 02/28/08 04:03 PM.

Wouter Hijink
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#133630 - 02/28/08 04:01 PM Re: Actual real data from the GC in Zandvort 2007 [Re: Wouter]  
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Great,

So can somebody post the actual data???

SD is a factor for sure, but the only data I could find in the history is what I posted.

Quote
Macca you should have finished high school then you have known about this stuff.

Wouter


Lets keep the personal insults to a minimum or I will have to get Rolf in here to smack you <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Oh and I did finish high school, not saying if I passed though <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by macca; 02/28/08 04:03 PM.

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#133631 - 02/28/08 04:01 PM Re: Actual real data from the GC in Zandvort 2007 [Re: Wouter]  
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Wouter,

please dont argue with him. If he gets back on it, I'll take action. Would be kind of you to change your post and not give him an excuse.

#133632 - 02/28/08 04:02 PM Re: Actual real data from the GC in Zandvort 2007 [Re: macca]  
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Quote
Quote
Macca:
Whats your point? I havent been reading the threads, so keep it simple. What is the point with all this weight discussion?


Simple: the current class rule for min weight is not reflective of the current fleet.
You honestly think this merits a change in class rules? Just to reflect what is currently out on the circuit?

#133633 - 02/28/08 04:05 PM Re: Actual real data from the GC in Zandvort 2007 [Re: Robi]  
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Quote
Quote
Quote
Macca:
Whats your point? I havent been reading the threads, so keep it simple. What is the point with all this weight discussion?




Simple: the current class rule for min weight is not reflective of the current fleet.
You honestly think this merits a change in class rules? Just to reflect what is currently out on the circuit?


Robi, YES. You need to have class rules that reflect the current fleet. Otherwise what is the point in having the rules??

Last edited by macca; 02/28/08 04:22 PM.

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#133634 - 02/28/08 04:06 PM Re: Actual real data from the GC in Zandvort 2007 [Re: Robi]  
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Robi, phhhlease. Dont fire him up. I am trying to stop his endless harping on this. Read the other weight threads if you havent been keeping up. There should be enough text to keep you busy for a while, and then some <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

#133635 - 02/28/08 04:07 PM Re: Actual real data from the GC in Zandvort 2007 [Re: Wouter]  
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Data can be interpreted by any way people wants, most important thing here is: "2.7.1 Any Formula 16 class member may propose amendments, additions or changes to the rule. They will be supported in their efforts by the Formula 16 authority with respect to communication and be given the means to propose the amendments, changes or additions to the class as a whole."

As long as there are no official requests this whole discussion is pretty much pointless and doesn't change anything <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.


Valtteri Blade F16
#133636 - 02/28/08 04:08 PM Re: Actual real data from the GC in Zandvort 2007 [Re: valtteri]  
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That is right Valtteri, and that is why I am on the verge of locking it up now. Or just deleting the whole thing.

#133637 - 02/28/08 04:17 PM Re: Actual real data from the GC in Zandvort 2007 [Re: Rolf_Nilsen]  
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Just ignore him!!!
at least he fights for his point of view as opposed to our favorite guy who is a fan of the good ol hit and run.

Last edited by PTP; 02/28/08 04:19 PM.
#133638 - 02/28/08 04:22 PM Re: Actual real data from the GC in Zandvort 2007 [Re: Rolf_Nilsen]  
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Quote
Robi, phhhlease. Dont fire him up. I am trying to stop his endless harping on this. Read the other weight threads if you havent been keeping up. There should be enough text to keep you busy for a while, and then some <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Just trying to understand his point of view. I can see how things can get out of hand.

Im out. I got a huge T shirt order to start processing! Rolf you dont want a T? I have an order going to AUS, get em while they are HOT!

#133639 - 02/28/08 04:25 PM Re: Actual real data from the GC in Zandvort 2007 [Re: Robi]  
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Scheise! I am coming with an order now! Have never used Paypal and got sidetracked.

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