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#135107 - 03/07/08 08:20 AM Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism  
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tshan Offline
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I am going to change out the mechanism for adjusting diamond wire tension. The current system is just a nut/bolt system that is fairly cumbersome to adjust. The way I see it, I know of two options:

1. The turnbuckle system used by NACRA (or at least my old NACRAs). Turnbuckle on each diamond wire, adjust as needed on each side. Sometimes cumbersome on adjust the water. Simpler installation (I'd think).

2. The single lever system that I have seen on A Class and 18 Squares. It looks to adjust both diamonds at the same time and maybe the easiest to adjust. More complicated to install, but may be better in the long run.

Any input on these systems? Are there any other systems that are preferred? Good, bad or indifferent? I DO know that F16 rules prohibit changes during a race, but changes in between races are permitted.


Tom
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#135108 - 03/07/08 12:02 PM Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism [Re: tshan]  
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Wouter Offline
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two comments :

-1- Read the class rules again, you made a mistake intepreting them

-2- Do a search on my setup; you'll find a post with photographs and all.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
#135109 - 03/07/08 01:58 PM Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism [Re: Wouter]  
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tshan Offline
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Option 1 now has 1 vote. Thanks W.

Yes. In my haste I did misread the rules. You can adjust diamond tension anytime you want. Ever seen the tension system on a 505?

I don't need another on the water fine adjustment, so I think the turnbuckle set up is the way to go.


Tom
#135110 - 03/07/08 02:25 PM Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism [Re: tshan]  
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LuckyDuck Offline
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Tom. I think the lever system makes sense on the A Cat so that you can get a fuller main for the downwing run. With the kite on he F-16 doing the work on the downwind leg I don't see a real need for the lever. My 2 cents. Ed


Still hazey after all these beers.
F-16 Falcon #212
#135111 - 03/07/08 02:50 PM Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism [Re: tshan]  
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phill Offline
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Tom,
There are another options.
The FCA Blade has a single bolt with its head under the mast base that allows adjustment. Quick and easy to adjust.
I understand there are other boats like the Nacra Infusion
and latest carbon rigs from Marstrom use a similar system.

Others like Stealth and some Tornados have a single turnbuckle on the front of the mast but you may need a bail to delfect the jib as it passes.

Regards,
Phill


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

#135112 - 03/07/08 03:28 PM Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism [Re: phill]  
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scooby_simon Offline
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Quote

Others like Stealth and some Tornados have a single turnbuckle on the front of the mast but you may need a bail to delfect the jib as it passes.

Regards,
Phill


Is this still an issue with self tackers?

Reason I ask is that I have yet to rig my Jib!


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
#135113 - 03/07/08 03:32 PM Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism [Re: scooby_simon]  
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Rolf_Nilsen Offline
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Not an issue in my experience, with the selftacking setup.

#135114 - 03/07/08 03:46 PM Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism [Re: scooby_simon]  
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phill Offline
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Simon,
I noticed on Bundy's Tornado a couple of years back that he had a bail to deflect the jib.

Is this still an issue?-
I would imagine it would depend on the geometry of the fore triangle of the individual boat and dimensions of the jib.

I don't think it is an issue with the Stealth, . The only sloop rigged Stealth that I've seen did not have a bail.

Regards,
Phill


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

#135115 - 03/07/08 06:38 PM Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism [Re: Wouter]  
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Mark P Offline
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I'm still not sure about how to interpret this Rule. I know where this rule wants to go but because of the confliction between "F16 Class Rule Summary. Other Main Rules" and " Rigging & Equipment 1.7.2" terminology.
Who knows what could happen at an impartial Protest Committee?
Note. I said impartial <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Wouter.
So could the F16 GC please, please clarify what takes precedence in this respect and not as in this case individuals interpretation.


MP*MULTIHULLS
#135116 - 03/07/08 07:57 PM Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism [Re: Mark P]  
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phill Offline
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Mark,
The rules were amended specifically to allow running diamonds. I remember the discussions at the time and
the intention of the rule is to allow them.

The way I see it the rules make a statement about adjusting standing rigging and then they tell you that there is an exception which is to allow running diamonds.
At least this was the intention.

Regards,
Phill

Last edited by phill; 03/07/08 08:15 PM.

I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

#135117 - 03/07/08 09:28 PM Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism [Re: phill]  

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Tshan,

Option 2 with a single turnbuckle not a lever (my prefered of your two options) allows you to make accurate changes to both sides at the same time. However, if you use this system its important to fit an inline turnbuckle on one of the diamond wires, as no matter how carefull you are one wire will be longer than the other. To do this you need a Ronstan type 2 (or similar) turnbuckle with a threaded swage terminal in both ends. Use a calibrated turnbuckle RF1575 as your main turnbuckle to allow easily repeatable settings.

I've sailed on F18s and Ts with the single turnbuckle on the front and never had an issue with the jib. The hidden bolt system is nice but a very complicated retrofit.

#135118 - 03/08/08 03:50 AM Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism [Re: phill]  
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Mark P Offline
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Quote
Mark,
The rules were amended specifically to allow running diamonds. I remember the discussions at the time and
the intention of the rule is to allow them.

The way I see it the rules make a statement about adjusting standing rigging and then they tell you that there is an exception which is to allow running diamonds.
At least this was the intention.

Regards,
Phill

Hi Phill
I wasn't a party to this decission so I wouldn't know the intenet of the Rules. All I can understand is what is there in Black and White, the first rule stating the rig can't be trimmed other than x,y,z (which doesn't include diamonds). And then another rule stating diamonds can be adjusted.
If "Diamond's" were included in the "F16 Class Rule Summary" I wouldn't be discussing this issue, but as it isn't it could be especially difficult to the layman to understand the intent of the rules due to the conflicting statements.
In a previous thread which skirted this issue Scooby suggested that the control for a diamond's could be termed a sheet, but as far as I'm concerned there are only 3 types of sheets on a F16, main sheet, jib sheet and spinnaker sheet. All other lines are Control Lines or Halyards.


MP*MULTIHULLS
#135119 - 03/08/08 04:04 AM Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism [Re: Mark P]  
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phill Offline
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Mark,
I thought we had already been through this and agreed to fix the wording to ensure the words better reflect the intent.

Regards,
Phill


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

#135120 - 03/08/08 05:48 AM Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism [Re: phill]  
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Mark P Offline
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Mark P  Offline
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Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K
I know we've been through it but I never saw anything which indicated the wording was actually going to be amended. I hope it will because it's much better to discuss these issues here rather than in a protest room.


MP*MULTIHULLS
#135121 - 03/08/08 05:55 AM Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism [Re: Mark P]  
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Rolf_Nilsen Offline
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You hope to do THAT well at the GC'08? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
How can you stand the pressure?

(I am joking, and I am sure I will get a 'welsh' reply). If Phill say that a clarification of the rules are coming, I am certain they will come. No need to have a jury decide on our class rules, we can handle that ourself.

#135122 - 03/08/08 10:31 AM Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism [Re: Rolf_Nilsen]  
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Mark P Offline
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Mark P  Offline
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Don't worry Rolf.... We are going to have a ball!!!!
When are you going to enter?


MP*MULTIHULLS
#135123 - 03/08/08 11:50 AM Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism [Re: Mark P]  
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Dermot Offline
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Quote
Don't worry Rolf.... We are going to have a ball!!!!
When are you going to enter?


Just back from the Match <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Congratulations Wales <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> - Ireland were Shi** (Shocking Awful) <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Edit: Not to take from Wales, who played very well <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by Dermot; 03/08/08 11:53 AM.

Dermot
Catapult 265
www.catamaran.ie
#135124 - 03/08/08 12:31 PM Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism [Re: Dermot]  
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waynemarlow Offline
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Ireland certainly weren't as bad as England !!!

Back to the thread, recently there was a picture of F16 with an adjustable diamond wire mechanism rather like the A class. What exactly are the benefits to the A's and why not the F16's ?. I also wonder if we shouldn't be just a hauling on the downhaul as well as the diamond wires simultaneously as it would make the whole process of bending the mast much easier ? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

#135125 - 03/08/08 01:51 PM Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism [Re: Dermot]  
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Mark P Offline
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Mark P  Offline
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Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K
Thread hi-jacking at its worst........ sorry
[Linked Image]

Attached Files
Last edited by MarkP; 03/08/08 01:53 PM.

MP*MULTIHULLS
#135126 - 03/08/08 01:57 PM Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism [Re: Mark P]  
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Mark P Offline
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Mark P  Offline
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Next week France and also the chance that England could win the Wooden Spoon........amazing!!!


MP*MULTIHULLS
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