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Centerboard vs Daggerboard #136587
03/15/08 03:49 PM
03/15/08 03:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline OP
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What's really the difference? I'm not looking at performance differences, more of the language. What makes a daggerboard a daggerboard, what makes a centerboard a centerboard?


I'm boatless.
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Re: Centerboard vs Daggerboard [Re: Karl_Brogger] #136588
03/15/08 03:55 PM
03/15/08 03:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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A daggerboard is a foil that is pulled straight up and down in a slot, like the Laser or like most high performance catamarans these days.

A centerboard is a foil that rotates up and down in a much longer slot, like the Tornado and the Hobie 17, for instance.

Re: Centerboard vs Daggerboard [Re: Karl_Brogger] #136589
03/15/08 03:57 PM
03/15/08 03:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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from "the street" a catamaran centerboard is commonly referred to a board that rotates up into the hull as on the Tornado, Hobie 17, or the new Nacra 5.8. A daggerboard is one that fits into to a slot in the hull and raised up through the hull.

A centerboard can have the capability of swinging back if hitting something underwater. A daggerboard does not.

A daggerboard is usually much longer and narrower than a centerboard and is a little more efficient at generating lift in the water.


Jake Kohl
Re: Centerboard vs Daggerboard [Re: Jake] #136590
03/15/08 04:54 PM
03/15/08 04:54 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 148
Cutler Bay, Florida
Bajan_Bum Offline
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Cutler Bay, Florida
So you can lift out a daggerboard, but you can't lift out a centerboard?

Re: Centerboard vs Daggerboard [Re: Bajan_Bum] #136591
03/15/08 05:16 PM
03/15/08 05:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Well, you CAN lift a centerboard out on shore if you need to for maintenance or something. But otherwise, when you are sailing, when it swivels up, it is hidden inside the hull. As Jake said, if you hit something, it is able to "kick up" into its slot, whereas if you hit something with a daggerboard, it's, "Uh-oh."

In other words, you never really see the centerboard and it is not in your way above deck. But there is a roller (or something) that goes along the slot on the deck, and that rolls forward or aft, depending on whether you are raising or lowering the centerboard.

Re: Centerboard vs Daggerboard [Re: Mary] #136592
03/15/08 05:40 PM
03/15/08 05:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 148
Cutler Bay, Florida
Bajan_Bum Offline
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Got it now.
While we're at it, not to hijack the thread, as it's in the same line of questioning. What is a gybing daggerboard?

Re: Centerboard vs Daggerboard [Re: Bajan_Bum] #136593
03/15/08 05:52 PM
03/15/08 05:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 531
Lake Murray SC
FasterDamnit Offline
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http://www.philsfoils.com/designTips.html#gybinghead

the head of the board is shaped as a trapezoid to allow the board to pivot a small amount and provide more lift. Same idea can be accomplished with a properly shaped head slot and rectangular head.


Race cheap, race faster, Damnit!

E-Scow
24' ULDB

18HT hulls plus Gcat 5.7 rig = 18GT!
Re: Centerboard vs Daggerboard [Re: Mary] #136594
03/15/08 06:01 PM
03/15/08 06:01 PM

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Anonymous
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Quote
Well, you CAN lift a centerboard out on shore if you need to for maintenance or something. But otherwise, when you are sailing, when it swivels up, it is hidden inside the hull. As Jake said, if you hit something, it is able to "kick up" into its slot, whereas if you hit something with a daggerboard, it's, "Uh-oh."



Mary:

Don't ALWAYS count on that. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> When I first got my Hobie 17 and was new to them, the first time I took it out at Deep South I forgot to pull it up. When I hit the shore it snaped the pivot point off like snapping a twig!!!!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

Doug

Re: Centerboard vs Daggerboard [Re: ] #136595
03/15/08 06:13 PM
03/15/08 06:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 915
Dublin, Ireland
Dermot Offline
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Quote
Quote
Well, you CAN lift a centerboard out on shore if you need to for maintenance or something. But otherwise, when you are sailing, when it swivels up, it is hidden inside the hull. As Jake said, if you hit something, it is able to "kick up" into its slot, whereas if you hit something with a daggerboard, it's, "Uh-oh."



Mary:

Don't ALWAYS count on that. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> When I first got my Hobie 17 and was new to them, the first time I took it out at Deep South I forgot to pull it up. When I hit the shore it snaped the pivot point off like snapping a twig!!!!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />
Doug

But it didn't open up the hull, which might have happened, if it was a daggerboard <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />


Dermot
Catapult 265
Re: Centerboard vs Daggerboard [Re: Dermot] #136596
03/15/08 06:18 PM
03/15/08 06:18 PM

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True. But centerboards aren't cheap either. About $250 a piece, Just remember to ALWAYS pull then up BEFORE you get close to the shore!! Hard lesson learned. Can't wait to experience daggerboards when I get the Blade. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Doug

Doug

Re: Centerboard vs Daggerboard [Re: ] #136597
03/15/08 07:15 PM
03/15/08 07:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
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I broke so many more H17 centerboards than N20 daggers.

It happened so often, I made a "half a mold" of the Centerboard pivot so I could rebuild it after I broke another one.

And it may not be "Uh-oh" but damn if my boat didn't leak like hell from those centerboard slots. Come to think of it, so does my current boat though :P

Re: Centerboard vs Daggerboard [Re: ] #136598
03/15/08 09:13 PM
03/15/08 09:13 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 148
Cutler Bay, Florida
Bajan_Bum Offline
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Posts: 148
Cutler Bay, Florida
Thanks a million to all.
Pardon my continuous questioning, but I've been out of cat sailing for quite a few years, and much has changed. In any case even though I did own two previous cats, I never got into the whys and hows of sailing or racing; both of which I'd like to understand better now.

Re: Centerboard vs Daggerboard [Re: Bajan_Bum] #136599
03/16/08 01:42 PM
03/16/08 01:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
hobie1616 Offline
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We've got some friends on island. They decided to take a late afternoon whale watching cruise off the beach on a 50 foot cat equipped with daggerboards. As they were heading out the captain announced this was the first time in a month he'd been on the water so they were going to use the sails instead of motoring.

He headed out into the channel and beyond the wind line at a pretty good clip ignoring the fact that it was pretty rough and a number of the paying customers were getting a second taste of their early dinners. This was caused by him hitting on a babe back by the helm.

After finally realizing the passengers were losing weight fast, he tacked around and headed back to the beach while still chating up the babe.

The big head had had all its blood diverted to the little head which meant our lusty skipper had completely forgotten the boards were down until the boat came to an abrupt stop short of the beach. No one was hurt but one board was jammed into place.

The captain, who's blood has flooded back to the big head, and crew attempted to free it with block and tackle but it wasn't to be. The boat was finally taken to the Lahaina harbor where the somewhat lighter passengers were limoed back to their original departure point.

I'll hazard a guess that it'll be more than a month before our lightheaded skipper returns to the water.


US Sail Level 2 Instructor
US Sail Level 3 Coach
Re: Centerboard vs Daggerboard [Re: hobie1616] #136600
03/17/08 03:06 PM
03/17/08 03:06 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
Tornado Offline
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Hey, you've left out an important detail:

Did he score?

Inquiring minds needto know!
<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />



Quote
We've got some friends on island. They decided to take a late afternoon whale watching cruise off the beach on a 50 foot cat equipped with daggerboards. As they were heading out the captain announced this was the first time in a month he'd been on the water so they were going to use the sails instead of motoring.

He headed out into the channel and beyond the wind line at a pretty good clip ignoring the fact that it was pretty rough and a number of the paying customers were getting a second taste of their early dinners. This was caused by him hitting on a babe back by the helm.

After finally realizing the passengers were losing weight fast, he tacked around and headed back to the beach while still chating up the babe.

The big head had had all its blood diverted to the little head which meant our lusty skipper had completely forgotten the boards were down until the boat came to an abrupt stop short of the beach. No one was hurt but one board was jammed into place.

The captain, who's blood has flooded back to the big head, and crew attempted to free it with block and tackle but it wasn't to be. The boat was finally taken to the Lahaina harbor where the somewhat lighter passengers were limoed back to their original departure point.

I'll hazard a guess that it'll be more than a month before our lightheaded skipper returns to the water.


Mike Dobbs
Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
Re: Centerboard vs Daggerboard [Re: Tornado] #136601
03/17/08 03:51 PM
03/17/08 03:51 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
hobie1616 Offline
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Quote
Hey, you've left out an important detail:

Did he score?

Inquiring minds needto know!
<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Doh! I forgot to ask and my friends left yesterday.


US Sail Level 2 Instructor
US Sail Level 3 Coach
Re: Centerboard vs Daggerboard [Re: hobie1616] #136602
03/18/08 11:09 AM
03/18/08 11:09 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
Tornado Offline
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Tornado  Offline
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Quote
Quote
Hey, you've left out an important detail:

Did he score?

Inquiring minds needto know!
<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Doh! I forgot to ask and my friends left yesterday.


If he did, then the rest is incidental really, ain't it?
<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


Mike Dobbs
Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
Re: Centerboard vs Daggerboard [Re: Tornado] #136603
03/19/08 12:03 PM
03/19/08 12:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 699
SE Pa. or Chesapeak Bay
HMurphey Offline
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SE Pa. or Chesapeak Bay
I thought that a centerboard has to be in the center of the boat/vessel.

Now the daggerboards in my P-19 are not located in the center of the boat .... as niether are the boards in my H-18, so I call them daggerboards. Can you imagine the confusion when you tell a first time sailer to "pick-up the centerboard" and point to the edge of the boat ....

So MY definition is centerboards are located in/on the centerline of the vessel, daggerboards can be/are located else where on the boat then on the centerline of the vessel.

"It's in the words": comedian-Galligher

Of course this is my personal opiniun.

HarryMurphey
H18mag/#9458, Fleet54/Div11
P19mx w/spin /#86, CRAC

Re: Centerboard vs Daggerboard [Re: HMurphey] #136604
03/19/08 12:13 PM
03/19/08 12:13 PM

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As stated above, centerboards are internally stored (in the hull) and usually "kick up" (slide back into the hull) when they hit an obstical.

Daggerboards can be removed from the boat and stored seperately. Daggerboards do not kick up of they hit something... they either stop the boat abruptly or rip through the hull and slowly stop the boat as it sinks.

Re: Centerboard vs Daggerboard [Re: ] #136605
03/19/08 02:18 PM
03/19/08 02:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
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warbird Offline
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Bay of Islands, NZ
The word dagger would suggest a stabbing motion such as the direct push needed to thrust the blade style down through the hull. It is implausible to think to describe a swinging board as such.

Re: Centerboard vs Daggerboard [Re: HMurphey] #136606
03/19/08 02:57 PM
03/19/08 02:57 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Mary  Offline
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Quote
I thought that a centerboard has to be in the center of the boat/vessel.

A centerboard is in the center of a hull; not the center of the vessel.

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