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newbie question #139821
04/13/08 06:04 AM
04/13/08 06:04 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7
Brooklyn
J
Jeff2 Offline OP
stranger
Jeff2  Offline OP
stranger
J

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7
Brooklyn
Hi,

First, thanks for the advice last week on which boats would be good/bad for me. I'm trying to find a used boat for my wife and son. Based on partly on this forum's feedback, and what's available used, I'm considering a Hobie 20.

But I'm concerned about getting it in and out of the water. I'll probably keep it at a marina on a trailer so I can leave the mast set up. I've trailered 18 foot skiffs (about 2500 pounds with outbound motor). My uninformed guess is that launching and pulling up a 20 foot hobie (about 400 pounds) would be pretty easy, particularly if it was only going 100 feet in a parking lot. After the first 3 times(learning period), how long does it take to launch and pull a 20 foot cat?

Thanks for the continued help,

Jeff

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: newbie question [Re: Jeff2] #139822
04/13/08 06:11 AM
04/13/08 06:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline
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Posts: 3,348
It all depends on experience. Allow an hour in the beginning. You can probably get it down to twenty minutes over time.

How much sailing have you done? Manuvering a sailboat in close quarters can be difficult even for experienced sailors.

Re: newbie question [Re: Jeff2] #139823
04/13/08 06:31 AM
04/13/08 06:31 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Mary  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Quote
I'm trying to find a used boat for my wife and son.

What do you mean? It is for your wife and son to sail? Or that you want a boat for yourself that you can take your wife and son out on? And how old is your son?

Re: newbie question [Re: Mary] #139824
04/14/08 05:25 AM
04/14/08 05:25 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7
Brooklyn
J
Jeff2 Offline OP
stranger
Jeff2  Offline OP
stranger
J

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7
Brooklyn
Mary,

Sorry for the confusion. I posted last week explaining my situation and didn't want to repeat. I'm an experienced sailor of bigger boats, but I'm looking for a day sailing cat that I can take my wife and five year old son on for fun. I asked advice last week on which cats would be best.

I got great advice from this forum. I found a 20 foot Hobie for sale, but I'm concerned about getting it in and out of the water.

Re: newbie question [Re: Jeff2] #139825
04/14/08 06:13 AM
04/14/08 06:13 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Mary  Offline
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
I have now read the other post, and I think you should take the advice given there: Get a smaller boat. You need one that you can right by yourself if it capsizes. Even if you have both your wife and son on the boat, your wife will be in the water helping the child, and will not be assisting you in righting the boat.

While your children are young and until your wife is experienced as crew, I would recommend the Hobie Wave. It is very stable, the least likely to capsize, and the easiest to right. It can handle a lot of weight. It has more seating area than either the Hobie 16 or Hobie 18. It cannot "turtle," because of the masthead float. (This is VERY important when you have small children on the boat.)

You can get the jib option for it and also the single-trapeze option -- that way there is something for everyone to do; your wife can handle the jib, and your son can have fun on the trapeze. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> They have a small spinnaker option for the Wave, too.

I forgot to mention that it only takes a few minutes to put up the mast and the sail and be ready to put it in the water. And if you have beach wheels, it is very easy to launch and take out of the water (especially if you have the bow spreader bar, which I highly recommend, and you can get that separately or it comes automatically, I think, if you get either the jib or spinnaker option.)

Last edited by Mary; 04/14/08 06:21 AM.
Re: newbie question [Re: Jeff2] #139826
04/14/08 06:21 AM
04/14/08 06:21 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 241
Largo, Florida
papayamon2 Offline
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papayamon2  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 241
Largo, Florida
Hi Jeff,

Not to rain on your parade, but I'm concerned about you as a newbie (your word, not mine) on a 20' with a 5 yr old. Beach cats are so light that they power up quickly in a breeze, and a Hobie 20 will have serious acceleration and speed. If you go back and read your previous post, you'll note that everyone recommended a smaller boat. That advice is born out of experience; the bigger the sail, the wilder things can get. I know you have a lot of experience sailing a larger boat, but beach cats are a whole different ballgame, especially when the wind picks up.

Hey, I'm not trying to be contrary. Perhaps you feel well equipped for the challenge, or even insulted that anyone would recommend caution. And maybe you'll be the guy who catches on right away and never makes a mistake. My concern, though, is that you'll be like most of us--forgetting to uncleat that line or finding ourselves in the wrong place when the wind shifts, etc. Things happen so quickly on these cats, and we've all had close calls (funny afterwards!) when we lose concentration. 20' is a lot of boat to start with, especially with young crew.

OK, I've said my piece. I had already done so in response to your previous post, but when I saw what you're leaning towards, I felt I ought to speak up again. I understand we all get to make our choices, but I'll finish with a bit of "Popeye wisdom" that I've often quoted to my teenagers: "We makes our choices, and we lives with our consequences." I just don't want you to endure any consequences that you'll later regret.

I really do hope it works out well for you, whatever you choose. Happy sailing, and might you have much fun and stay safe on the water.

Kevin

Re: newbie question [Re: Jeff2] #139827
04/14/08 07:58 AM
04/14/08 07:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Sebring, Florida.
Jeff, if you are serious about buying this Hobie 20, be sure you get the owner to come out and sail with you at least once or twice before you try to go it alone. Everyone here has a horror story to tell about some newbie who showed up with a new (to him) cat when it was blowing 20, with the wife and kid, and shortly after was never seen sailing again...

When these things flip, (and as a newbie, you will, unless you get lots of good instruction or only go out on very light air days) they do not stay still. They project a huge barn door of a trampoline to the wind and will be moving downwind quickly, with or without you. Keep that in mind when you and the family hit the water. Have the wife swim for the kid while you hold onto the boat, sail back for them after you right it, but as many have said, you will have trouble righting it alone. It can be done if everything works, but you have to know what you are doing ahead of time.

Read the short article I just posted about the America's Cup crews, the best mono sailors in the world, trying to figure out mulithulls. Guess what, even they flipped it. So be sure the wind isn't blowing too hard (no more than 10 the first few times out) and be sure it's an -onshore- breaze, as that's where you will be headded when the boat leaves you in the water. We've all done it. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />


Blade F16
#777
Re: newbie question [Re: Timbo] #139828
04/14/08 08:11 AM
04/14/08 08:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 975
South Louisiana, USA
Clayton Offline
old hand
Clayton  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 975
South Louisiana, USA
First off, the 20 is a great boat, I had one for 6 years. Now the drawbacks... Not a great family boat, too many lines. Someone is always sitting on something you want to uncleat (not good if its blowing some). If your crew can help by trimming make sure they know what you mean when you scream "GIVE ME MORE DOWNHAUL!" or "RELEASE THE JIB...NOW!!!". You'll end up upside down.

Tried racing with my then 8 year old and did great until the wind picked up. Got kinda hairy, got one hand on the tiller and one on the main sheet and none for the downhaul, outhaul, barberhauler, jib sheet... you know what I mean. Went for a swim. Blowing like it was I was able to right the boat pretty quick and finish.

Next race, son says "Dad, is it OK if we don't go out?" Note: Last race on the 20, sold it the next summer.

Good news is I now hava a Stiletto 27 that I can put the whole family on (and all of their friends) and bought my son a 5.2 (he's older now) so he can be in charge.

Clayton

Good luck!

Re: newbie question [Re: Clayton] #139829
04/14/08 08:31 AM
04/14/08 08:31 AM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



I agree.. get a smaller cat to start... you can always sell it and upgrade after you get a few 100 hours under your belt (really). Even a hobie 16 can get wild when a storm cloud forms over head..

I have found beach cats keep their resell value very well as long as you dont trash it.

Re: newbie question [Re: ] #139830
04/14/08 08:37 AM
04/14/08 08:37 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 148
Cutler Bay, Florida
Bajan_Bum Offline
member
Bajan_Bum  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 148
Cutler Bay, Florida
Heck, even a Hobie 18 can be overpowering when it's windy.

Re: newbie question [Re: Bajan_Bum] #139831
04/14/08 08:52 AM
04/14/08 08:52 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 168
San Diego
H
hokie Offline
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hokie  Offline
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H

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 168
San Diego
I would look at the hobie wave or if you need something bigger hobie getaway with mast float. The nacra 5.0 or 5.7, prindle 16, g-cat 5.0 type boats would be ok choices too but will be less forgiving than the wave or getaway. I went from racing keelboats to sailing my Nacra 5.0 and while that experience has helped the catamaran is very much a different type of sailing, I rented a Getaway before getting my boat and the Getaway will feel lightning quick compared to any big keelboat.



Re: newbie question [Re: Jeff2] #139832
04/14/08 11:22 AM
04/14/08 11:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 330
S
srm Offline
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srm  Offline
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S

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 330
I'm gonna have to agree with the other replies- the Hobie 20 is not the boat for you. It's a great boat, my family had one for several years, but it is a racing boat. It's intended to be sailed by two experienced sailors with at least 300lb of crew weight. It will almost certainly be way too much boat for you in any wind above 10mph. It's unforgiving and will be on it's side before you even realize you did something wrong.

Not to mention that the rigging is sophistocated, there are lines all over the place, and it's fairly delicate. Not a good starter boat.

sm

Re: newbie question [Re: hokie] #139833
04/14/08 11:34 AM
04/14/08 11:34 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
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Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
But the Getaway is a lot heavier than the Wave; so there, again, you have the issue of whether you would be able to pull it out out of the water by yourself.

Re: newbie question [Re: Mary] #139834
04/14/08 12:12 PM
04/14/08 12:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 224
Cincinnati, Ohio
Tri_X_Troll Offline
enthusiast
Tri_X_Troll  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 224
Cincinnati, Ohio
Weightwise, I don't think the Getaway would be too heavy to pull out of the water using a decent sedan.

The getaway weights in at 390 lbs and then figure in another 350 for the trailer.

My H16 weighs in at 340 and the OLD trailer weighs in at 380 and my Ford Focus can pull it out. It had to gunt a little on the steep ramp, but it did it. Now a gravel ramp......no chance in moving it.

I grew up around power boats, water skiing, and have to admit that the width of a H20 is goign to be the biggest pain when maneuvering the trailer in tight quarters.

A H20 is going to be much much wider than the car or an 18 foot skiff, so backing it into a parking spot will be tough.

Last edited by Tri_X_Troll; 04/14/08 12:17 PM.

Ryan - H16 I prefer to go sailing because baseball, football, tennis, and golf only require 1 ball!
Re: newbie question [Re: Tri_X_Troll] #139835
04/14/08 01:05 PM
04/14/08 01:05 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
I wasn't thinking about a car -- thinking beach wheels. But if you use a trailer, weight wouldn't really be quite so much of an issue, because you can winch it onto the trailer (if you can get the trailer deep enough in the water to get the boat started on the rollers).

I haven't sailed on a Getaway, but I think you have to trapeze off the wings, don't you? Might be a little scary and precarious for a 5-year-old. I also don't know how easy a Getaway is to right. Maybe somebody else can say.

If you have a nice, light aluminum trailer and a dolly wheel on the front, you can just unhitch it from the car and roll it by hand into its parking spot, piece of cake, no matter what boat.

Also, we have turned all of our trailers into flatbeds now, 8'6" wide, and it makes it a lot easier to get the boat on and off, because you don't have to worry about keeping the hulls lined up on rollers.

Last edited by Mary; 04/14/08 01:12 PM.
Re: newbie question [Re: Mary] #139836
04/14/08 01:26 PM
04/14/08 01:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
One more thing: If you are going to keep the boat in a marina parking lot, whether mast is up or down, the boat needs to be tied to the trailer, and the trailer needs to be anchored somehow to the ground. Maybe the marina has anchor points into the asphalt or concrete or whatever it is.

Re: newbie question [Re: Mary] #139837
04/14/08 02:43 PM
04/14/08 02:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 42
1
16nut Offline
newbie
16nut  Offline
newbie
1

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 42
Just a quick replay regarding the Getaway: Most Getaways do not come with trapezes just wing seats. The Getaway is in credibly easy to control in a blow and trapeze is not needed. Also the Getaway to me is easy to move up a beach on beach wheels. Plus the Getaway is a piece of cake to rig. Just a fun easy boat to sail and one more thing you can carry 6 adults on it with room to spare. Has coolers built into each hull and big front tramp for the kids, supper durable, etc. Oh I almost forgot, add the motor mount and put a nice 2.5 hp motor on it for those windless days. The lists of advantages go on and on! No it’s not a racing boat but who cares if you can set it up quick and get on the water and have fun sailing while those Hobie 20 & Nacra guys are still at the beach taking all that time to rig their boats.

Re: newbie question [Re: 16nut] #139838
04/14/08 03:02 PM
04/14/08 03:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Sounds good.
Is the Getaway easy for one person to right?

Re: newbie question [Re: Bajan_Bum] #139839
04/14/08 03:14 PM
04/14/08 03:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 145
Cheshire, UK
Simon Offline
member
Simon  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 145
Cheshire, UK
Please try a smaller boat first! The Hobie Wave would be a great place to start. The bigger boats are a handful - my 20 foot Nacra 6.0 is called Animal, with good reason: it is no respecter of inexperience!


Simon
Shadow 067
Re: newbie question [Re: Simon] #139840
04/14/08 03:40 PM
04/14/08 03:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
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Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
I don't know if you're supposed to trap off the wings on the Getaway

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