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Re: Why are we different? [Re: mbounds] #146056
06/20/08 10:39 AM
06/20/08 10:39 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 55
Ft Myers Beach, FL
walkefmb Offline
journeyman
walkefmb  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 55
Ft Myers Beach, FL
Lots of the competitors on the race course have also earned their J.D. and have problems (accidents) that result in personal injuries. I've been asked by one skipper to sign a post accident waiver of my rights(to sue) after an inattentive moment on his part led to me getting about 20 sutures and a round of antibiotics or two. Yes he is a personal injury attorney and he worried and hounded me for a week about my condition. I never even considered action but his attitude was that it was a big deal even among friends.


cedar tornado classic,
sunfish,
1972 morgan 27
optidad
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Why are we different? [Re: walkefmb] #146057
06/20/08 11:21 AM
06/20/08 11:21 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
In some cases, the cost to defend yourself from a claim costs more than the claim settlement itself... Sad, really.


Jay

Re: Why are we different? [Re: waterbug_wpb] #146058
06/23/08 09:35 AM
06/23/08 09:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 139
Hernando, Florida
M
Mlcreek Offline
member
Mlcreek  Offline
member
M

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 139
Hernando, Florida
Gentlemen, As an adjuster for over 20 years, please allow me to add my two cents. In most cases, if you review your own Homeowners Insurance policy, you will find that under the Liability section, your beachcat is covered. This even includes for a racing event. I would refer you to your individual policy and or contact your agent. If there is coverage, then your Insurance Company would owe you a defense for any claim and or suit that results from an accident, and or occurrence. This woould include the reatining of an attorney all the way through trial if needed.


Forrest
I-20
USA 645

" There ain't enough rum in the drum!"
Re: Why are we different? [Re: Mark Schneider] #146059
06/23/08 10:24 AM
06/23/08 10:24 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 805
Gainesville, FL 32607 USA
dacarls Offline
old hand
dacarls  Offline
old hand

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 805
Gainesville, FL 32607 USA

RE Mark's comments to improve friendly racing proceedings.:
>Protest committes are almost non existant at cat races... so they may not play by the rules and the game suffers.
>What if a USSA judge showed up and did a public Protest Committe hearing .. We get to play the game hard and safely the next time we race.
>the non racers (can still) give it whirl
>Regatta PRO was asked to state his credentials and USSA training at the skippers meeting.

I submit that Protests are a necessary element to racing. They remind one that it is best to race by the rules, and to exonerate yourself as best as possible on the racecourse. It is not intended to be a punitive process resulting in jail-time, lawsuits or total and utter disgrace. Protests are a part of the learning process.

By the way: I suggest that PROs, Race Committees and Protest committees are irrelevant to a lawsuit. I have had my boats damaged, rarely but occasionally, and would prefer the offender to pay to repair the damage rather than inspire a lawsuit. Only Katherine Garelick absolutely refused to be responsible for her damage (and is still an unrestrained renegade IMHO).


Dacarls:
A-class USA 196, USA 21, H18, H16
"Nothing that's any good works by itself. You got to make the damn thing work"- Thomas Edison
Re: Why are we different? [Re: Timbo] #146060
06/23/08 10:38 AM
06/23/08 10:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
I don't think he straightened them out but he was patient, intelligent and articulate.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Why are we different? [Re: Mlcreek] #146061
06/23/08 10:56 AM
06/23/08 10:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mark Schneider  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
MICreek

I just want to clarify... The insurance coverage that we are talking about is NOT a personal property and liability issue. eg your Hobie 16 and the damage you cause to property or personal injury while racing. I agree with your point that your homeowner's policy could well include the boat and your liability.

In order for an organized race to occur, IMO it's prudent to protect your volunteers from crap that could happen.
The insurance is for your actions while you are serving as a volunteer on the race committe. Even if you have an enormous personal umbrella coverage... most volunteers would expect your organization to step up with coverage and not have to fall back on their personal financial package.

Also, you organize and launch off someone's property. We would have a devil of a time getting a permit for Baltimore City property... They insisted that CRAC have a policy that covered their property... After several years they figured out that the liabilty policy we would send them only covered our actions on the water and not their property... Likewise, the DTB won't happen because the owner of the land at a midway point is uncomfortable with the policy for his property that we could purchase. So... from his point of view... Eh... not worth the hassel.

The good ol days are long gone... Yacht Clubs exist with property on the water and a structure to host regattas...

Cat Sailors should use them.

Rock Hall, MD hosted 75 dinghys including 12 A class and 11 Open class this weekend Including a 12 mile down the river race with 3 classic Chessie log canoes on the starting line. .... The cat sailors thought it was a priceless deal and we were happy! That is the future!


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Why are we different? [Re: Timbo] #146062
06/23/08 11:28 AM
06/23/08 11:28 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 887
Crofton, MD
Chris9 Offline
old hand
Chris9  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 887
Crofton, MD
Quote
at the several US Sailing Centers nation wide.


Who knew? Where are they?


Chris Allen
Nacra 20 Gertie
www.wrcra.org
Re: Why are we different? [Re: Chris9] #146063
06/23/08 01:16 PM
06/23/08 01:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 139
Hernando, Florida
M
Mlcreek Offline
member
Mlcreek  Offline
member
M

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 139
Hernando, Florida
I see the issue now. I stand corrected, thanks.


Forrest
I-20
USA 645

" There ain't enough rum in the drum!"
Re: Why are we different? [Re: Chris9] #146064
06/23/08 04:33 PM
06/23/08 04:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
mbounds  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
Quote
Quote
at the several US Sailing Centers nation wide.


Who knew? Where are they?


There's the one in Jensen Beach:US SAILING Center Martin County

Miami: US SAILING Center Miami

Long Beach: US SAILING Center Long Beach

Re: Why are we different? [Re: mbounds] #146065
06/23/08 07:52 PM
06/23/08 07:52 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 503
BrianK Offline
addict
BrianK  Offline
addict

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 503
I didn't know they existed. So what makes a US Sailing Center a US Sailing Center?

Re: Why are we different? [Re: BrianK] #146066
06/24/08 04:59 AM
06/24/08 04:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
BK, In short, Money... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I would be nice if every community sailing center were also a US Sailing center, and it would be nice if they all had rental programs for members who are "certified" (take a test, get certified, rent a boat) but they don't want to be in that business. And they wonder why the sport is in decline...how is a newbie supposed to get started?

US Sailing would have him join a week long program for say, $300+, and at the end of the program guess what, he still can't rent a boat from US Sailing. Brilliant!

Last edited by Timbo; 06/24/08 05:06 AM.

Blade F16
#777
Re: Why are we different? [Re: Timbo] #146067
06/24/08 01:11 PM
06/24/08 01:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 917
Issaquah, WA, USA
H17cat Offline
old hand
H17cat  Offline
old hand

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 917
Issaquah, WA, USA
Timbo, offer still stands. Next time you are in Seattle, we will get you out on one of our six H-16's or six Waves.
Caleb
www.sailsandpoint.org

Re: Why are we different? [Re: H17cat] #146068
06/24/08 01:23 PM
06/24/08 01:23 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 917
Issaquah, WA, USA
H17cat Offline
old hand
H17cat  Offline
old hand

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 917
Issaquah, WA, USA
Sail Sand Point in Seattle is open to ALL sailors.
This is how the OPEN SAILING program works.
http://www.sailsandpoint.org/?content=OpenSailing

See you on the water.

Caleb Tarleton

Re: Why are we different? [Re: Timbo] #146069
06/24/08 04:54 PM
06/24/08 04:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
"US Sailing Center" is just a title that adds prestige and maybe some local political clout to a sailing center, and maybe makes it easier to get their nonprofit-charitable designation.

US Sailing does not own the centers and does not give them any money. The three centers that have the US Sailing designation just have to be available to US Sailing for clinics and regattas. But each center has to figure out how to support itself.

The Martin County center has lots of learn-to-sail programs and a number of membership programs, some of which allow members of the center to have unlimited use of their boats during the hours the center is open. There is also a membership for people who want to be able to launch their own boats from the center.

However, none of this has anything to do with whether you are a member of US Sailing -- you have to join the sailing center itself.

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