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Re: Statue of Liberty Race [Re: waterbug_wpb] #147685
07/10/08 02:24 PM
07/10/08 02:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
K
ksurfer2 Offline
old hand
ksurfer2  Offline
old hand
K

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
Now just to be clear.....when I threw out the "Pansys"....yeah I know now...."Pansies" comment, it was only in reference to Chris's sugestion regarding setting up a competition during the Tybee between regions of the country. You know...stirring up a bit of geographical rivalry. I have sailed both with and against Chris. "pansy" is the LAST word I would use to describe him or his sailing!!!!!


If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Statue of Liberty Race [Re: ksurfer2] #147686
07/10/08 02:26 PM
07/10/08 02:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

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Naples, FL
But, grasshopper, it has taken on a life of its own... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

That's the beauty of this place....

Smoking chimps, green-freaks, mangynas, engineers, and a few actual sailors!


Jay

Re: Statue of Liberty Race [Re: waterbug_wpb] #147687
07/10/08 02:36 PM
07/10/08 02:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
K
ksurfer2 Offline
old hand
ksurfer2  Offline
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K

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
And which catagory do you fall into????? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />


If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one
Re: Statue of Liberty Race [Re: ksurfer2] #147688
07/10/08 03:08 PM
07/10/08 03:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Quote
And which catagory do you fall into????? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />


Certainly not the last one.


Jake Kohl
Re: Statue of Liberty Race [Re: Jake] #147689
07/10/08 03:36 PM
07/10/08 03:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

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Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Good point. I'll add "stud muffin" to the list <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Or maybe "pot-stirer" would be more appropriate...


Jay

Re: Statue of Liberty Race [Re: waterbug_wpb] #147690
07/10/08 03:38 PM
07/10/08 03:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Hay-Seuss! Jake, how in the heck did you get over 6,000 posts?

And I thought I was a slave to the keyboard....


Jay

Re: Statue of Liberty Race [Re: waterbug_wpb] #147691
07/10/08 03:41 PM
07/10/08 03:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
It's only due to consistency. I registered the first day the forum opened in 2001 - I'm still #2 with regards to no of posts though.


Jake Kohl
Re: Statue of Liberty Race [Re: Jake] #147692
07/10/08 08:23 PM
07/10/08 08:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Quote
Quote
wow! I look away for a day, and look what happens around here!
Jack, I know that you are bitter that we (our drinking team including your great crew Barbie) kicked your butt at flip cup round after round... but my god, a pansy!?!?! I think all we can do is call for a rematch soon! Perhaps next years tybee??? Steeplechase??? or something sooner like the New England 100?
seriously, major props to you for finishing and the win! You join a list of great sailors on the trophy. Add your name proudly, and while you are at it, would you mind making up the plaque from 2006 for me?
Chris


You know? I bet we could probably talk Jack into something like the Tybee....hmmmmm....

And Chris, you know better than to turn your back on this gang.

Looks like he turned his back on' em twice.
I'm in for the training, all the good N.E. drinkers (Adam, Ed, Eric,etc.) quit sailing. They shouldn't be a problem unless Garrett showed up again.
Tawd


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: Statue of Liberty Race [Re: wildtsail] #147693
07/14/08 12:15 PM
07/14/08 12:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 149
Long Island, NY
Catius Offline
member
Catius  Offline
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Posts: 149
Long Island, NY
Quote
I guess they gave up on their "objective 100"
From what I hear they have been having issues with their website and webmaster.


"They" have given up indeed. In fact, "they" really never had their heart into it anyways. This is a fascinating story of what happens when young people with vision, enthusiasm and commitment start a project in a club that's run by an old guard that refuses to give up control to a new generation and new ideas.
I (Thomas DeGeest) was one of the key drivers behind Objective 100, together with - then race officer - Jacques Pierret. Almost immediately after the 2005 Statue Race, we sat together and dreamed up a vision of a US based cat race, with a similar stature of what Texel is in Europe. What better place to do it than NYC. We got several club members on board to plan and prepare for the initiative. We worked on it for more than 10 months: publicity, registration, race and event logistics. It took hundreds of hours of work. We were not sure to get to a 100 participants (still a very modest goal, compared to Texel) in the first year. Objective 100 would be a multi-year program that would grow the race into one of the most visible sailing events in the NY Metro area. The NY harbor offered several great spots for observers or press to follow the race, and we'd have the 4th of July weekend and the Statue of Liberty as top-ingredients for a great story. We had signed up more sponsors than ever - sponsors who were willing to go along for a multi-year ride.
Initially we ran into indifference from the old guard. "We'd never make it". Indifference became skepticism. Once it became apparent that we actually may get somewhere, we ran into opposition and even obstruction from some members.
The real story with the Sandy Hook Club board is that they wanted to keep the Statue Race small, they didn't want the hassle of more organization and planning. They didn't want to bother to do things differently than the way they'd done it for 30 years. And they definitely didn't want relatively new members (or Europeans - remember the post 9/11 anti-everything-European mindset?) to tell them how to grow the Statue Race. That's the mentality that killed Objective 100.
In the 2006 race, we made it to about 86 boats. Mistakes were made (allowing larger cats to participate, that would capsize in the harbor and cause trouble with the coast guard). Any mistake made provided ammunition for the old guard to make their argument to "keep it small".

I left Sandy Hook Bay Club the year after the first O-100 race. I left the O-100 debacle for what it was: a great idea killed by small mindedness. But when I saw this post, I figured people have a right to know what happened. Also, for all the young kids out there with energy and ideas...don't let the guys (and gals) with "experience" kill your spirit and your ideas.

I'm sure this post will raise a storm of comments from SHBCC. I can only say that I raised these concerns many times with their commodore and never saw a change from the leadership. I also may not be the best racer, I may not even be a good sailor, but I know for sure that only one ingredient was missing to grow Objective 100 to American greatness: It was a lack of ambition.

Last edited by Catius; 07/14/08 02:40 PM.

Thomas Mystere 6.0
Re: Statue of Liberty Race [Re: Catius] #147694
07/15/08 06:05 AM
07/15/08 06:05 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 77
Tiger Offline
journeyman
Tiger  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 77
Good move, Thomas. I do not want to add to this except:

Quote
Mistakes were made (allowing larger cats to participate, that would capsize in the harbor and cause trouble with the coast guard).


I think it was excellent advertizing (we got the NY Times!), just something spectacular to watch sailing and a different way to handle the race for the future.

Quote
they wanted to keep the Statue Race small.

They got it: 30 boats this year, nothing to be proud of.


Yes, the old guard killed this, among other things, including a sailing school project.


Actually more people drinking beer on the beach than really into sailing at this club.

Last edited by Tiger; 07/15/08 06:16 AM.
Re: Statue of Liberty Race [Re: Catius] #147695
07/15/08 07:44 AM
07/15/08 07:44 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
I really admired what you guys were doing and how successful you were at promoting this event - you set a standard for which other struggling events should draw experience from. Your marketing vision was terrific and I think you guys had a great idea.

With that in mind, there is an area of marketing that it doesn't sound like was successful - the internal marketing. People happy with the status quo are quite the challenge. You guys have a terrific idea, hit an impressive goal, and have given us all a few things to learn from. I hope to see you keep working on it.


Jake Kohl
Re: Statue of Liberty Race [Re: Jake] #147696
07/15/08 08:38 AM
07/15/08 08:38 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
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Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Rick and I have never heard of this Objective 100 thing. We don't have a clue what you guys are talking about. Is this something that was going to replace the Statue of Liberty Race?

Re: Statue of Liberty Race [Re: Mary] #147697
07/15/08 09:38 AM
07/15/08 09:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Quote
Rick and I have never heard of this Objective 100 thing. We don't have a clue what you guys are talking about. Is this something that was going to replace the Statue of Liberty Race?


It was the Statue of Liberty race - they had set a goal to get 100 boats on the line (and nearly made it). I'm almost certain they bought a catsailor ad in the magazine and had a banner here on the site for a while.


Jake Kohl
Re: Statue of Liberty Race [Re: Jake] #147698
07/15/08 10:45 AM
07/15/08 10:45 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

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Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Okay. The Catius post made it sound like it was a whole new race, new concept, new organizers. And I don't think I have ever heard the actual term "Objective 100." I just remember the Statue organizers were trying to get 100 boats to the regatta one year. There's nothing unusual about that -- a lot of major regattas try for a goal like that.

Re: Statue of Liberty Race [Re: Mary] #147699
07/15/08 11:16 AM
07/15/08 11:16 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine

Re: Statue of Liberty Race [Re: ThunderMuffin] #147700
07/15/08 11:45 AM
07/15/08 11:45 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Sorry, but I had never before heard of this idea of making the Statue of Liberty Race into a world-famous race like the Around Texel, and starting with 100 boats and growing it every year.

It does not surprise me, though, that others within SHBCC would be opposed to doing that.

Re: Statue of Liberty Race [Re: Mary] #147701
07/15/08 03:38 PM
07/15/08 03:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 149
Long Island, NY
Catius Offline
member
Catius  Offline
member

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 149
Long Island, NY
Objective 100 was more of an internal term we used.


Quote
It does not surprise me, though, that others within SHBCC would be opposed to doing that.


Can you elaborate?


Thomas Mystere 6.0
Re: Statue of Liberty Race [Re: Catius] #147702
07/15/08 04:36 PM
07/15/08 04:36 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Well, the bigger the event and the more hype for it and the more boats that come, the greater the potential liability problems for the organizers.

No comparison with the Around Texel, which is empty water. New York Harbor is full of all kinds of traffic, both recreational and commercial. And I would imagine that the recreational traffic is worse than usual on a 4th of July weekend.

Fog has been a problem in past Statue races. Traffic and fog don't mix well.

I'm saying that the "old guard" who have been running this race for 30 years (I think that's what was said), have a better handle on the dangers of this race. The mere thought of trying to build it into a race with hundreds of catamarans in a commercial harbor like that does not sound like a good idea to me.

Races like the Round the Island and the Texel usually bring out lots of people who are not experienced racers and are just doing it for a once-a-year fun event. With lots of aggressive promotion, the same thing could happen for the Statue race, and it's just not safe.

In the Texel, and some other distance races, the sailors only have to worry about themselves and other catamarans. In the Statue of Liberty Race, they also have to worry about being run over by freighters and ferries and miscellaneous other boats.

Re: Statue of Liberty Race [Re: Mary] #147703
07/15/08 06:30 PM
07/15/08 06:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 149
Long Island, NY
Catius Offline
member
Catius  Offline
member

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 149
Long Island, NY
Mary, these are definitely fair points. Agree this is not a race for inexperienced sailors, but is this not something that can be solved by very clear and explicit communication (e.g. on the notice of race - "ONLY for experienced catsailors / racers"). Communication goes a long way and is cheap - only it costs some effort. Are people not smart enough to make their own decisions and to stay away from race with very explicit warnings? And even if you keep the race small, nothing prevents from crazies to show up at the starting line either...we've seen this happening as well. The question may be more about selectiveness than about how many boats are at the start. We were looking to bring in sailors from all over. People traveling from Texas or NC for the Statue Race probably have a pretty good idea what they're signing up for. We saw first hand that these were very good sailors. The ones we have to worry about are the local crazies (and the large cats, which are easy to eliminate by setting a 20 ft limit).
Also...the Objective-100 was about more than getting x number of boats to start. It was about bringing a different level of organization and a different / better experience for participants - especially for those who traveled from far. That has nothing to do with harbor safety or fog. I agree the Statue Race cannot become a 400 boat event like Texel...of course not. But 100 boats is a reasonable goal and making it a GREAT race (great in every sense of the word) rather than a mediocre event was definitely an achievable goal.
People in 2006 had a fantastic time...it was great to be part of it and tons of participants SAW the difference and told us so.
Once the SHBCC race management changed in 2007, no one even bothered to check in and ask if we could help with the next Statue Race. Oh well...there will always be reasons to maintain the status quo, and some people are just very good at finding those reasons instead of finding answers. Everyone has their own little niche.


Thomas Mystere 6.0
Re: Statue of Liberty Race [Re: Mary] #147704
07/15/08 06:48 PM
07/15/08 06:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 77
Tiger Offline
journeyman
Tiger  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 77
Ahh, LIABILITY

The most frequent excuse to do nothing... As a result, in many places in the world, cat sailing is getting bigger, sailing schools are successfull, but here? The thing is just shrinking and disapearing or at best stagnating. Look at the recent F18 worlds, it will give you an accurate picture.

Right, better stay at home and watch TV, it is safer.

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