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#149978 - 09/24/08 07:39 PM Re: New Draft rule [Re: JeffS]  
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Darryn Offline
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Stop being a primma donna Wouter, I had my say on what I thought, you gave it back to me in your usual style and someone else told you to shut up. No one gave you half as much as you give others. I shut up so that rules can be locked in and you can either do as you offered or wash your hands of the project AGAIN. If you dont want to do it Wouter I will do it so send them to me and I will modify the A Class rules to suit within 2 weeks.


Jeff,
In SA we are so far away from the rest of the sailing world that you might as well do it exactly the way you want to.

Darryn

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#149979 - 09/25/08 12:29 AM Re: New Draft rule [Re: Darryn]  
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Gato Offline
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Let's for once do it without Wouter, he has a lot of good qualities, but there is nothing constructive in a discussion like the one going on here for the moment.

#149980 - 09/25/08 04:20 AM Re: New Draft rule [Re: Darryn]  
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JeffS Offline
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Darryn it doesnt much matter what the first rules are based on as long as we lock in the basics already agreed on. The rules as agreed say that as soon as theres enough boats on the water there can be votes on changes to the rules but won't discriminate against existing boats. I've got time on my hands for the next 2 weeks so if Scarecrow gets the draft rules to me I'll do it and if Wouter decides to do it the class can adopt which ever one is prefered in two weeks time.
regards


Jeff Southall
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Taipan 5.7 134
Mosquito 404
Arrow 1576
#149981 - 09/30/08 07:31 PM Re: New Draft rule [Re: JeffS]  

**DONOTDELETE**
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Jeff,

I've just gotten out of hospital after almost two weeks, and I'm over 1000km from my office with a stict no-fly ban until friday.

I'll email the files on monday.

SC

#149982 - 09/30/08 10:41 PM Re: New Draft rule [Re: ]  
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Very happy to have you back again, started to be scared, things have been so quiet.

#149983 - 09/30/08 11:36 PM Re: New Draft rule [Re: ]  
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Hope your getting better, I'll get on to it as soon as the files come through
regards


Jeff Southall
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Taipan 5.7 134
Mosquito 404
Arrow 1576
#149984 - 10/02/08 02:29 AM Re: New Draft rule [Re: ]  
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Wouter Offline
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I wish you excellent recovery Scarecrow !

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
#149985 - 10/04/08 06:25 PM Re: New Draft rule [Re: Wouter]  

**DONOTDELETE**
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Thanks for the thoughts guys,

I went away for 4 days to visit family and ended up in emergency with pneumonia, two hospitals and two week later I'm finally home, now I just need to remember how to breath and find a way to meet all the deadlines that have slipped while I've been away.

Word is that the Catholic World Youth Day in Sydney a few months ago introduced a lot of new virus strains into Australia and cases of pneumonia and similar have gone through the roof since.

#149986 - 10/07/08 07:37 PM Re: New Draft rule [Re: ]  
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Okay I've never had a go at this sort of thing before so here is my draft of the rules have a look, post your opinion here on the forum so that any proposed changes can be debated rules to be locked in
8pm 12th day of October 2008.
Keep in mind this set of rules can be changed anytime as per the rules so this is just to get things going.
If you can do better do it <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.
regards


F12 CLASS CATAMARAN MEASUREMENT GUIDELINES

Prologue: The Formula 12 class
The Formula 12 catamaran exists with the sole purpose of introducing young, novice and disabled sailors to the thrills of sailing high performance catamarans. With this in mind the following rules endeavor to outline a cost effective, safe and enjoyable class of sailing boat that can also be used for close racing across a range of designs.

The Formula 12 Design Box Rule
1. In case of doubt, the intention of the rule makers, which is referred to as the spirit of the rule, shall take precedence over the letter of the rule. For construction, all materials and methods are allowed when these do not imply either an unacceptable risk of bodily harm or the operation of an unseaworthy craft. It is the responsibility of competitors to ensure their craft are safe and seaworthy.

2. A catamaran is defined as a two-hulled sailing boat with essentially duplicate or mirror image hulls, fixed in parallel positions.

3. Sail area shall not be more than: 7.00 square metres. There is no restriction on how sail area is distributed. Where a sleeved main sail is not used, half the mast area shall be included in the total sail area. “The girth measurement shall be taken as the distance from the centreline round the surface of the spar to the same point on the centreline. The resultant dimension shall be divided by two to give the half girth measurement.”
Boom measurement is only included in the sail area if the profile height of the boom is more than 1.5 of the width and shall be taken as per mast measurement.
When undertaking the sail measurement the following points should be noted.
Sail to be measured on a flat surface and laid out in terms of IYRU Measurement & Calculation of Sail Area Instructions. i.e.
“With battens set in their pockets the sail shall be pegged out on a flat surface with just sufficient tension to remove waves or wrinkles from the edge rounds and to spread the sail, as far as possible, substantially flat. Once the sail has been pegged out in this way all the required measurements shall be taken and no alterations to the tensions shall be made.”

4. Mast construction and rigging shall be un-restricted.
A contrasting measurement band shall be located on the mast no higher than 6metres above the top of the front beam. At no time shall any part of the main sail with the exception of a halyard lock or shackle be located above this measurement band.

5. The overall length of the catamaran shall not be more than: 3.80 metres.
The length shall be measured between perpendiculars to the extremities of the hulls with
the catamaran in her normal trim. The measurement shall be taken parallel to the centre
line of the craft and shall exclude rudder hangings, but if the athwartships width of a
rudder within 153mm (6 inches) of the bottom of the hull is more than 76mm (3 inches), the length shall be taken to the aftermost point of the rudder.


6. The extreme beam width shall not be more than: 2.00 metres
The beam shall be measured at right angles to the centre line of the craft at the widest point and including all fixed or adjustable apparatus with the exception of a normally accepted trapeze or retractable seat, this may be at some point down the sides of the hulls, especially if hulls are angled. It may also be possible that the maximum width is at the bottom of centreboards when fully down.

7. Unballasted retractable seat or trapeze shall be allowed for the helmsperson. When in use the helmsperson at all times shall have at least one foot in contact with the boat.

8. Each hull shall have at least one inspection hatch.

9. Each hull shall carry at least 30 litres of flotation, which may be provided by solid closed cell foam, solid blocks of compacted foam granulate, air bags or sealed air compartments.

10. The platform shall be equipped with a pair of rudders.

11. In addition to the rudders, the platform may also be equipped with one or more daggerboards or centerboards.

12. It is not permitted to adjust the following items while racing: the rake of the mast, the tension of the standing rigging, the angle or length of the spreaders (if fitted).

13. It is the responsibility of the crew to ensure that the boat is equipped with a righting system that will enable the crew to right the boat without any outside assistance.

14. The Formula 12 Class authority may demand that a crew demonstrate their ability to right their boat, but only at a time when doing so does not directly affect the fairness of racing.

15. There will be no other restrictions on crew weight apart from the requirement that the crew weight must be sufficient to right the boat unaided under all encountered sailing conditions.

16. The F12 Division emblem shall be carried on the mainsail over national letters and sail numbers, Sail numbers shall be allotted by the Class Association.

17. Hydrofoils are not permitted.

18. Minimum weight in full sailing trim shall be not less than 50 kilograms. The boat must be weighed in a dry condition and any weights attached to bring the boat to a minimum weight of 50 kilograms must be permanently affixed.

Class administration
19.1. Voting rights
The following people area each entitled to one vote on class matters.
o Designers who have provided a free design of a F12 for others of which at least one has been built.
o Builders who have built at least one boat ready to sail.
o Owners of a ready to sail F12 cat
19.2.a Changing of rules
A change to these rules requires affirmative votes from 2/3 of all people entitled to vote at the time of the poll.
19.2.b Rule changes may not preclude from competition or grandfather currently sailed F12 catamarans.
19.3. Applicability of rules
These rules exist as a draft only until being ratified or changed by vote after the launch of the 10th Formula 12 catamaran.
19.4.a. Governing body
Initially the Formula 12 catamaran class shall be run with all those entitles to vote having equal voting rights. Upon the launch and measurement of the 49th vessel the class association may with a 2/3 majority vote choose to implement a governing council which will be empowered to handle the general running of the class.
19.4.b. Where a governing council is adopted they may not make changes to the measurement box rule or voting structure, with out first receiving 2/3 majority support for any changes.


Jeff Southall
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Taipan 5.7 134
Mosquito 404
Arrow 1576
#149987 - 10/07/08 08:06 PM Re: New Draft rule [Re: JeffS]  
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ncik Offline
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Notes

4. Pocket luff sails will extend beyond the top of the mast, hence above the measurement band.

7. I thought trapezes (or seats) were not part of the intention of the F12. I don't think they sit well with the philosophy of the F12. Safety is also a concern for solo kids getting trapeze hooks stuck if under the tramp. I also don't believe they are necessary for performance.

17. I agree that hydrofoils should be banned. However I think a blanket statement as such is poor wording. We've seen so much debate about the definition of hydrofoils and their banning in the A-Class. I won't go into all the problems associated with it. This can be avoided with a requirement for one hull to be providing buoyancy in all typical sailing conditions, ie. one hull in the water at all times while racing.

If that is considered too tricky, an alternative requirement for "straight" blades fitted "vertically" may be appropriate.

Otherwise I would vote for the proposed rules.

#149988 - 10/07/08 08:19 PM Re: New Draft rule [Re: JeffS]  
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Good work Jeff.

Do think it is too early to build one for my sons, they are 2 1/2 and 10 months.

The oldest own is pretty excited about sailing on the F16. 1-4 knots ans 29degrees C has been forecast for our clubs opening day this saturday, might be the perfect day for him.


Simon
BLADE F16 AUS405
#149989 - 10/07/08 11:10 PM Re: New Draft rule [Re: simonp]  
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NZ
Jeff, excellent work, nice and simple without all the wordy stuff in the original rule Wouter proposed.
Like ncik noted, allowance for the top strap of a pocket luff sail or a fully enclosed pocket, Traps I don't mind, but might be an issue with really young kids till they get the hang of it, and the hydrofoil issue can be dealt with as ncik suggested with straight blades and mounted vertically to the hull center line (this allows for canted hulls)

Cheers
RG

#149990 - 10/08/08 12:28 AM Re: New Draft rule [Re: RetiredGeek]  
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Gato Offline
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Nice work!!! For the traps I agree with ncik. For a start they should not be allowed when racing, we can add them later if they becomes something used by the kids sailing and racing with the cat.
But traps or not you have my vote.

#149991 - 10/08/08 01:42 AM Re: New Draft rule [Re: Gato]  

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Good job Jeff, I'm happy with the tweeks proposed above. I'm on the fence on traps. I started trapping at about 6 and competed in a hobie 18 nationals at 12 so I know from experiance kids can do it. However I wonder if they will scare some parents away.

[Linked Image]

#149992 - 10/08/08 01:50 AM Re: New Draft rule [Re: ncik]  
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JeffS Offline
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Quote
Notes

4. Pocket luff sails will extend beyond the top of the mast, hence above the measurement band.

7. I thought trapezes (or seats) were not part of the intention of the F12. I don't think they sit well with the philosophy of the F12. Safety is also a concern for solo kids getting trapeze hooks stuck if under the tramp. I also don't believe they are necessary for performance.

17. I agree that hydrofoils should be banned. However I think a blanket statement as such is poor wording. We've seen so much debate about the definition of hydrofoils and their banning in the A-Class. I won't go into all the problems associated with it. This can be avoided with a requirement for one hull to be providing buoyancy in all typical sailing conditions, ie. one hull in the water at all times while racing.

If that is considered too tricky, an alternative requirement for "straight" blades fitted "vertically" may be appropriate.

Otherwise I would vote for the proposed rules.


Whats the correct wording regarding the pocket luffs extending past the mast band?
I'm putting a trap and jib on mine but I can take them off if the kids race in a F12 comp so I dont mind banning them in the racing rules. I personally think that kids want an exciting boat why not have a trap if they've already been using one for the last 3 years on a mono. My 8yo has a cat with a trap, are we saying that a 11yo kid that is a good sailor looking for excitement should get a different boat. The seat wasn't about performance I felt that this is an interesting platform for disadvantaged sailors, I cant imagine a seat or wing being used but why ban it.
We can addopt the one hull in the water wording.
I'll happily go along with whatever everyboady wants lets just lock in some rules <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.
regards


Jeff Southall
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Taipan 5.7 134
Mosquito 404
Arrow 1576
#149993 - 10/08/08 01:59 AM Re: New Draft rule [Re: ]  
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JeffS Offline
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You posted while I was typing Scarecrow glad your back in the land of the living. As I said in the early post I'll go along with whatever everyone wants in the rules. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
regards


Jeff Southall
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Taipan 5.7 134
Mosquito 404
Arrow 1576
#149994 - 10/08/08 04:01 AM Re: New Draft rule [Re: JeffS]  
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grob Offline
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Quote
10. The platform shall be equipped with a pair of rudders.


Would it be possible to ammend this to allow for a single central rudder, I beleive this was in previous drafts. It also sits better with rule 11 that allows "one or more daggerboards or centerboards."

Thanks

Gareth

#149995 - 10/08/08 04:14 AM Re: New Draft rule [Re: grob]  
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JeffS Offline
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I nearly put in the wording a maximum of 2 rudders and I think its a great idea
regards


Jeff Southall
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Taipan 5.7 134
Mosquito 404
Arrow 1576
#149996 - 10/08/08 05:16 PM Re: New Draft rule [Re: JeffS]  
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JeffS Offline
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JeffS  Offline
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Its been pointed out to me that we need to list the F12 designs that can vote on the rules as the way its written anybody with an established cat smaller than the F12 max dimensions can vote so the dedicated F12 designs would have no say. Can we please have a current list of builders and designs and can anybody put together the correct words that includes the ability to add new designs as they come along
regards


Jeff Southall
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Taipan 5.7 134
Mosquito 404
Arrow 1576
#149997 - 10/08/08 05:20 PM Re: New Draft rule [Re: JeffS]  
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ncik Offline
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ncik  Offline
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Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
Rewording for Rule 4

4. Mast construction and rigging shall be un-restricted.
A contrasting measurement band shall be located on the mast no higher than 6metres above the top of the front beam. At no time shall any part of the main sail with the exception of a halyard lock, shackle or pocket luff sail cap be located above this measurement band.

Some sketches of each of these conditions may be appropriate.

Thinking about it some more, for junior boats I really like the idea of being able to drop the sails with the boat and mast upright for safety reasons. Should shackled or pocket luff sails be allowed with this consideration. Having sailed a pocket luffed moth and knowing how difficult it is to be rescued with the mast still up, I am very tempted to have a clause to cover this.

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