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#156363 - 10/02/08 12:02 PM Adult 12' cat????  
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Not to dilute the successful effort to provide an entry catamaran for children and teenagers, nor to distract those who are designing or building the youth boats…but has anyone moved forward with an adult version (180lb crew weight)?…a “quick after work” 12’+ cat that a few expressed interest in when the F12 concept was first being kicked about? Possibly going a few inches longer to take advantage of the properties Wouter brought to light many moons ago?

Regards,
Robert

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#156364 - 10/02/08 12:23 PM Re: Adult 12' cat???? [Re: Seeker]  
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Gato Offline
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It would be too fat. 14 feet is the option, but is there a real need?

#156365 - 10/02/08 01:25 PM Re: Adult 12' cat???? [Re: Gato]  
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It would be too fat. 14 feet is the option, but is there a real need?
Yes...with the time crunched Americans!

Kick this question out on the Open forum and see the fire storm ensue <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />


John H16, H14
#156366 - 10/02/08 02:14 PM Re: Adult 12' cat???? [Re: _flatlander_]  
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Darryl Barret have pushed the 14 for a long time without much interest. He have a really good product, but not much of a market. Berny also have a really good 14 and moulds to build more, but again there is not enough real interest.

#156367 - 10/02/08 02:24 PM Re: Adult 12' cat???? [Re: Rolf_Nilsen]  
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…a “quick after work” 12’+ cat that a few expressed interest in when the F12 concept was first being kicked about?
as Robert has eluded, this goes back to the arguement/s (err...discussions) of whether the F12 would have a stayed or un-stayed rig, and the five minute assembly time originally proposed by Wouter.


John H16, H14
#156368 - 10/02/08 03:57 PM Re: Adult 12' cat???? [Re: Seeker]  
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Robert if your not looking for high performance then the F12 will do fine. I took my 8yo lad out on his 11ft Arafura Cadet (with much thinner hulls than the F12) 3 weeks ago, total crew weight 130kg and we went along just fine. When I watched the video afterwards I was amazed at the way it carried us. You can also see the F12 is carrying Gato no problem. The problem with the short boats is pitchpoling which means an adult in a blow probably needs a trap wire like the Arafura has
regards


Jeff Southall
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
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Taipan 5.7 134
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#156369 - 10/02/08 06:35 PM Re: Adult 12' cat???? [Re: JeffS]  
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“Robert if your not looking for high performance then the F12 will do fine.”
Performance is always important…if one just wants to drift around there are plenty of mono slugs...not looking to go 30 knotts...but it would have to go fast enough to make it worth while.
Regards,
Robert

#156370 - 10/02/08 07:16 PM Re: Adult 12' cat???? [Re: Seeker]  
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I watched this 11ft Arafura play in wind and waves when I was overpowered on my 5.8
http://www.catsailor.com/forums/download.php?Number=154352

http://www.catsailor.com/forums/download.php?Number=154353
I believe as long as you've got a stayed rig and traps you can add the sail area you want, I would expect my F12's to be much more bouyant
regards

Last edited by JeffS; 10/02/08 07:21 PM.

Jeff Southall
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Taipan 5.7 134
Mosquito 404
Arrow 1576
#156371 - 10/02/08 11:51 PM Re: Adult 12' cat???? [Re: JeffS]  
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I have been sailing the two F12 cats that I have in conditions from 0 -30 knots of wind. + 15 knots of wind and they are fun with the current sail area. When it gets up to +25 knots at least the DS12 starts to dig the nose in. with the current sail area there is no need for a trap, not even to hike. Ther is another problem rising when your weight i two times the weight of the platform,a small shift in position changes a lot.

#156372 - 10/03/08 12:47 AM Re: Adult 12' cat???? [Re: Gato]  
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If the F12's were the only cat you had what rig would you put on them?
regards


Jeff Southall
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Taipan 5.7 134
Mosquito 404
Arrow 1576
#156373 - 10/03/08 01:33 AM Re: Adult 12' cat???? [Re: JeffS]  
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They are in fact the only cats that I have for the moment!!!
I have been thinking of powering up them a little bit but decided against it. They are designed for the rig they carry, and making the mast much longer will at least here attract the attention of the police once cartopping.
They are fun to sail, but for me the ultimate would be a 14 feet with a little bit more sail.
So for the F12 a stayed rig with 7-9 m2 of sail depending on the conditions you are sailing in.

#156374 - 10/03/08 10:44 PM Re: Adult 12' cat???? [Re: Gato]  
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Quote
So for the F12 a stayed rig with 7-9 m2 of sail depending on the conditions you are sailing in.


Are the stays important? Wouldn't a self standing mast work almost the same way?


Luiz
#156375 - 10/04/08 03:09 AM Re: Adult 12' cat???? [Re: Luiz]  
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The solution with the Dynema shrouds and forestay is so simple , easy and cheap and it gives you a good control of the rig so I don't see why not...

#156376 - 10/04/08 04:58 PM Re: Adult 12' cat???? [Re: Luiz]  
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Quote
Quote
So for the F12 a stayed rig with 7-9 m2 of sail depending on the conditions you are sailing in.


Are the stays important? Wouldn't a self standing mast work almost the same way?


I was thinking of upping it closer to 9 or 10m by adding a jib so that two teenagers can have a go on it.

A well engineered non stayed mast should work fine. I had a wow of a time on a Bic open with unstayed rig in big wind but my kids want traps and deep down I want traps so I can use it on days when my other cats are overpowered.
regards


Jeff Southall
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Taipan 5.7 134
Mosquito 404
Arrow 1576
#156377 - 10/06/08 01:50 AM Re: Adult 12' cat???? [Re: JeffS]  
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We have been thinking of adding a kite. It's downwind that you feel that there is not power enough, and there the jibe won't help...


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