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#158527 - 10/28/08 10:02 PM Spinnaker  
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 93
MCGriffith Offline
journeyman
MCGriffith  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 93
Bribie Island, QLD
Looking to put a Spinnaker on my newly aquired mossie, just wondering which sail makers everyone recommends and for what reasons, price, quality etc, i know the VMCA site has Irwin and Goodall Sails listed as having Mosquito spinnaker designs, is there any difference between the 2?

Cheers.
Michael.

-- Have You Seen This? --
#158532 - 10/29/08 04:26 AM Re: Spinnaker [Re: MCGriffith]  
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 201
ratherbsailing Offline
enthusiast
ratherbsailing  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 201
Adelaide South Australia
Halsey lidgard (saxby sails)in brisbane make really good kites. They are local to you and have made quite a lot of F18 and F16 spinnakers.Try them out



#158623 - 10/29/08 04:51 PM Re: Spinnaker [Re: MCGriffith]  
Joined: Mar 2003
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Tim_Mozzie Offline
old hand
Tim_Mozzie  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 943
East Gippsland, Australia
I think Danny is right. You are best off dealing with a local sailmaker you can easily talk to and maybe even meet face-to-face. It's also important that they are familiar with asymetric kites for cats.

Most sailmakers will need the dimensions of your boat to pinpoint the halyard, pole-end and sheeting point. From that they will be able to design a spinnaker. Unless they've made one for a Mosquito before.
Make sure the sailmaker reads the Mosquito rules. There are some maximum dimensions.

If you just want to go ahead and buy one without stuffing around, there are way more Irwin spinnakers on the Mozzies than any other make. You can just order one from Linsay and get it in the post. Last I heard they are $850.


Tim Shepperd
Mosquito 1775
Karma Cat
#158772 - 10/30/08 08:33 PM Re: Spinnaker [Re: Tim_Mozzie]  
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MCGriffith Offline
journeyman
MCGriffith  Offline
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Bribie Island, QLD
Had a good long chat with Greg Goodall who was gracious enough to give up his time to discuss every aspect of putting a spinnaker on my mossie, he gave me quite alot of info from his personal experience, even went into a few of his racing tactics with spinnakers.

The spinnaker is a little bigger than the Irwin one, with a size of around 15m2 as apposed to the 14.2m2 on the Irwin spinnaker, i actually discussed this with him and from what he said, in his experience reducing the size of the spinnaker to 14.2m wouldnt allow it to sail tighter to the apparent wind as is the theory and reasoning behind the smaller Irwin sail. From his memory the dimension and composition of the spinnaker he does are as follows:
Material: chs 0.75oz nylon
Luff: 6750
Foot: 3350
Leech: 6200
Head: 50
Area: approx. 15m2

However he said he was going to look into it more for me and talk to several people about making sure his dimmensions were up to date and provided the best performance based on the spinnaker size restrictions etc.

Also, he said the spinnaker should probably only need two patches for the retreval line, is there more benifit to having 3 patches (which im under the impression the irwin spinnaker has).

In the end, the cost of the spinnaker came to about $780.

Contacted quite a few local sail makers, however their prices started at $900, and none of them had done a mossie kite before.

Discussed with Greg also about the Ratchet Blocks for the spinnaker sheet and he recommended the newer Ronstant Orbit Ratchet Blocks over the older Smart Ratchet Blocks.

Cant wait to get the spinnaker in a few weeks time grin
Guess ill need to go visit the local Chandler now wink

#158774 - 10/30/08 09:35 PM Re: Spinnaker [Re: MCGriffith]  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 79
First_Try Offline
journeyman
First_Try  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 79
McGriffin,
Are you going to be sailing Cat or Sloop?
Good to hear you are going with Greg Goodall, did you talk to Greg about his aluminium spinnaker shoot, bag and deck layout. I have used both the Irwin/Tim setup and the Greg Goodall style, I would be interested in finding out what you are doing? They both have their positives and negatives and the system we have ended up with was primarily designed by Greg. The reason is we sail sloop and the crew raises and lowers the spinnaker. The system others are using has been developed for the skipper doing all the work.

Peter

Last edited by First_Try; 10/30/08 09:36 PM.

Peter
First Try
#158775 - 10/30/08 11:13 PM Re: Spinnaker [Re: First_Try]  
Joined: Oct 2008
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MCGriffith Offline
journeyman
MCGriffith  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 93
Bribie Island, QLD
Well im hoping to have a system that can be run both sloop and cat rigged, as i occasionally will be putting the jib on and running with a crew, just depends on when the crew are available, and whether weather is permitting (my first race was sloop rigged with a total crew+skipper weight of about 190kg in less than 5 knott winds .... wont be doing that again!).

Im working off the theory, that if the spinnaker can be setup to be easily operated by the skipper on a cat rigged, then the crew should have no problem handling it on a sloop rigged boat. Will have to see how it goes, if position of sheets, lines etc setup for the helm is a problem for the crew, then i may even setup a system that allows different positions depending on whether the kite will be operated by me or the crew, though that shouldnt be too much of an issue. Any thoughts are appreciated.

Cheers.
Michael.

Last edited by MCGriffith; 10/30/08 11:22 PM.
#158777 - 10/31/08 12:26 AM Re: Spinnaker [Re: MCGriffith]  
Joined: Apr 2007
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First_Try Offline
journeyman
First_Try  Offline
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Posts: 79
Michael, both you are in for some fun.

The problem we had was deck space for both skipper and crew without sitting on one of the ropes. The sloop method seems to give less problems when sailed cat then the other way around. If you get a chance have a look at a Tornado, Tiapan or Hobie, you will find the spinnaker halyard is cleat is on the mast. The Mossie web site has the halyard cleat is on the deck (cat Rig Style). For the crew to use the cleat on the deck they have to move back along to boat to the skipper position (poor Skipper). If the skipper pulls the spinnaker up the crew sitting in the normal position end up sitting on the spinnaker sheets (Poor Crew).

By moving the Halyard to the mast the skipper stays in their normal position and the crew moves inboard clearing both halyard and spinnaker sheets. Using this system Cat rig the skipper has to move forward about halfway along to tramp to raise the spinnaker, lowering the spinnaker can be done from skipper and crew positions so is not a problem.

Peter


Peter
First Try
#159049 - 11/03/08 01:49 AM Re: Spinnaker [Re: First_Try]  
Joined: Oct 2005
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ncik Offline
old hand
ncik  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
The Ronstan Orbit ratchet blocks have been giving me some trouble on the kite. They keep turning off and the switch got jammed in the off position once. A real pain on a tight reach.

#159990 - 11/09/08 11:54 PM Re: Spinnaker [Re: ncik]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 586
Dazz Offline
addict
Dazz  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 586
Hobart, Tasmania, Oz.
Harken smart ratchets over Ronstan any day! Spend the extra, you wont be sorry.


C2 AUS 222 by Goodall design
"Darph Bobo"
#160261 - 11/12/08 04:18 PM Re: Spinnaker [Re: Dazz]  
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Tim_Mozzie Offline
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Tim_Mozzie  Offline
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East Gippsland, Australia
Why?

I've been using smartratchets on the spinnaker for 6 years now. No problems at all.


Tim Shepperd
Mosquito 1775
Karma Cat
#160381 - 11/14/08 08:20 AM Re: Spinnaker [Re: Tim_Mozzie]  
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 93
MCGriffith Offline
journeyman
MCGriffith  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 93
Bribie Island, QLD
Tim, which have you been using? Harken or Ronstan?

#160451 - 11/14/08 11:35 PM Re: Spinnaker [Re: Tim_Mozzie]  
Joined: Sep 2006
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Dazz Offline
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Dazz  Offline
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Hobart, Tasmania, Oz.
The harken ratchets are larger and have more grip on the rope. your hands will be under less pressure while sailing. the harken blocks carry a longer warranty and feel more sturdy in your hand.

the new orbit range are breaking down (typically at the worst times). so for the very little extra get the harkens and then you can forget about them.


C2 AUS 222 by Goodall design
"Darph Bobo"
#160526 - 11/16/08 03:59 PM Re: Spinnaker [Re: MCGriffith]  
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Tim_Mozzie Offline
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Tim_Mozzie  Offline
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East Gippsland, Australia
I've been using the Ronstan Smartratchets. I find I can hold the spinnaker sheet in one hand with one of these on the sheet. If I'm getting tired I might put a wrap around my hand but usually I just hold it.

I know Gary found that one wasn't enough for his F16 Altered, and he put two Smartratchets on each side. The loads are that much bigger. I would guess an F18 would load up that much more again.

I should mention that all the Mozzies I've seen have this kind of setup to increase the wrap around the ratchet block. Maybe this wouldn't be needed with the harken blocks.


Attached Files
spin_sheet.jpg (1921 downloads)
Last edited by Tim_Mozzie; 11/16/08 04:10 PM.

Tim Shepperd
Mosquito 1775
Karma Cat
#160529 - 11/16/08 06:15 PM Re: Spinnaker [Re: Tim_Mozzie]  
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 93
MCGriffith Offline
journeyman
MCGriffith  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 93
Bribie Island, QLD
I have the full intention of using an additional ball bearing block to wrap the sheet more effectively around the racket block, just trying to get some opinions about which block is better, i know some people are saying harken are better, but the ronstan block are claiming a 2 times greater holding power of 20:1 compared to the harkens 10:1, i know theres a lot of other variables such as the quality and reliability of the product, which is my major concern (holding power can be increased by simply going to the gym), but ive always considered ronstan to be a good product, i know a few people have complained about them, however im just looking for some more opinions about peoples experience with them.

Thank you.
Michael.

#160550 - 11/17/08 12:16 AM Re: Spinnaker [Re: MCGriffith]  
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 943
Tim_Mozzie Offline
old hand
Tim_Mozzie  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 943
East Gippsland, Australia
I also use a smart ratchet on the mainsheet.

We don't have the same kind of loads on a Mozzie that F18s and F16s do. I think either Harken or Ronstan will do the job.

One thing to make sure of though is that it has to be the type of ratchet that only engages under load. Otherwise gybing will be a real pain.


Tim Shepperd
Mosquito 1775
Karma Cat
#160552 - 11/17/08 01:18 AM Re: Spinnaker [Re: Tim_Mozzie]  
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 93
MCGriffith Offline
journeyman
MCGriffith  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 93
Bribie Island, QLD
Yes both the Ronstan Orbit smart ratchet and the harken carbo ratchmatic blocks are auto engaging when under load, the ronstan block i believe is adjustable in this sence in that it can be set to engage automatically only when under load, or set to manual mode where u can choose when to engage and release. The harken ratchmatic i believe is perminently set to automatic mode.

#160553 - 11/17/08 01:19 AM Re: Spinnaker [Re: MCGriffith]  
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 93
MCGriffith Offline
journeyman
MCGriffith  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 93
Bribie Island, QLD
Also im wondering if anyone has the dimensions of a chute/mouth for the spinnaker as im considering making my own from fibreglass as i have a bit lying around left over from another project.

Cheers.

#160652 - 11/17/08 06:59 PM Re: Spinnaker [Re: MCGriffith]  
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
ncik Offline
old hand
ncik  Offline
old hand

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
Buy an AHPC aluminium snuffer ring. Since getting one I can't recommend it enough.

#160674 - 11/18/08 01:17 AM Re: Spinnaker [Re: ncik]  
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 93
MCGriffith Offline
journeyman
MCGriffith  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 93
Bribie Island, QLD
Nick, where abouts in brissy are you racing from, id love to come and have a look at ur setup and maybe even bring my mossie down.

#160675 - 11/18/08 01:18 AM Re: Spinnaker [Re: MCGriffith]  
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 93
MCGriffith Offline
journeyman
MCGriffith  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 93
Bribie Island, QLD
Also, can you recall the price of the snuffer ring and chute bag from AHPC?

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