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Reefed main? #162070
12/06/08 09:12 AM
12/06/08 09:12 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
PTP  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
Anyone ever felt the need for a reefable main on an F16? I imagine when the wind is strong enough to need one then no racing would be going on, but for the fun of it?

If so, do you think that cutting the main down so that the head is at or slightly higher than the spin hound would be enough support to still run the spin (not that I think anyone would be in a hurry to run the spin in those high winds).
ideas?

I have my old main that I could do this with... just thinking, not seriously considering ruining a decent sail to do it.

The next logical question is whether the sail shape would be worth a damn if one did just slice off the bottom. However, at that point I would think the flatter the better so the worst thing you could end up with is a short, stubby full sail.

Last edited by PTP; 12/06/08 09:14 AM.
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Re: Reefed main? [Re: PTP] #162075
12/06/08 09:57 AM
12/06/08 09:57 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Jalani Offline
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Jalani  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Now that my 15yr old is sailing my old F16, I've considered arranging a reef in the main. I've thought about copying the system that RS use on their Vision family racer. This is a horizontal heavy duty zip that has each half sewn about a metre apart on the sail. Pull the sail down so that you can zip up the two halves of the zip and bungee on clips on the other side of the sail tidies up the bunt of the sail. Retension the luff and you're set!

The variation I was considering was to arrange the zip to take out a full lower panel between two batten pockets. I'd also have to fit another halyard lock hook at the correct height on the mast to take the head in its new position. I suspect also that with the amount of luff tension we use compared to dinghies that I'd also need a new cunningham point just above the zip and a mainsheet take-off to match at the leech.

As I say, thought about it but haven't done anything about it just yet.


John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
Re: Reefed main? [Re: PTP] #162077
12/06/08 10:02 AM
12/06/08 10:02 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 954
Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K
Mark P Offline
old hand
Mark P  Offline
old hand

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 954
Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K
At this years Grafham Cat Open there were 8 F16's, two were sailing with Stealth 'R' mainsails which are just over a meter smaller than the F16. On Saturday it was fairly windy 18-22mph I would imagine and the smaller mains weren't going that well (No offense Pepin/Jeff).
So if I was you Patrick I wouldn't cut down your old main but would consider altering the fullness to make it flatter, check the current luff curve if at it's max it's over 100mm then consider a re-cut to 90mm for instance. I was very surprised what a difference this can make to the overall sail shape/power. My Landy Luff curve had 15mm taken out last Winter (now 85mm. I'm approx 160lbs).
A good few years ago after my crew had fallen through the main I used a Dart 18 mainsail on a Stealth 'R' for a race. Never again. It was like an old potato bag, way to full and nothing I could do to flatten it. But it was a pretty colour!!


MP*MULTIHULLS
Re: Reefed main? [Re: Jalani] #162081
12/06/08 10:10 AM
12/06/08 10:10 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
PTP  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
thanks for the ideas.
As far as needing another mainsail hook to latch the head onto... when we briefly tried the reefable main on our old HT we used a spectra pigtail that we tied from the head of the main to the mainsail shackle that hooks onto the hook at the top of the mast. Worked well, I seem to remember. However I think it might have been difficult to get down. we never actually sailed with it. there was no easy way to bundle the bottom of the sail around the boom.
Great idea about the luff curve adjustment. wouldn't be too hard to do really and it wouldn't be too hard to match the nature (wrong word, but you know what I mean) of the curve.

When someone talks about re-cutting an old sail.. what do they mean? Is it similar to recutting the luff as suggested?

A lot of this is partially just to see if there is a way to go out when it is TOO windy to rationally sail with a standard rig.

Last edited by PTP; 12/06/08 10:13 AM.
Re: Reefed main? [Re: PTP] #162082
12/06/08 10:11 AM
12/06/08 10:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 548
MERRITTISLAND, FL
Matt M Offline
addict
Matt M  Offline
addict

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 548
MERRITTISLAND, FL
Originally Posted by PTP
The next logical question is whether the sail shape would be worth a damn if one did just slice off the bottom. However, at that point I would think the flatter the better so the worst thing you could end up with is a short, stubby full sail.


The proper approach to this would be to design a smaller sail for high winds, or even a complete smaller rig so that everthing worked as intended.

The platform as it stands already as a pretty small amount of sail area. I have been out in conditions I was not comfortable in, but feel that even with a reefed sail, I would still have been unconfortable in those conditions.

A kids rig (slightly smaller anyway) has been discussed on several occasions seriously, for use in a youth devlopment boat. Nothing actual has been done to date yet, as the consensus keeps comming back to watching the conditions prior to going out and not getting into situations you are not capable of controling.

Re: Reefed main? [Re: Matt M] #162083
12/06/08 10:16 AM
12/06/08 10:16 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
PTP  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
Matt,
good point. I guess it comes down to the way windsurfers do it (I believe, never been windsurfing). They have sails that match the condition. Of course their sails (on average) probably don't cost 1500 each though. Also, for those of us who don't live in sailing paradise year round, we have to make our short trips worthwhile! Problem is that we are out of shape for dealing with significant wind.
This is intriguing really. these boats are light enough to get to the back of the boat, lift up the bows and go downwind.... who is to say you could do that upwind smile
Either way, full rig or not I am fairly certain I would manage to capsize when gybing anyway.

Last edited by PTP; 12/06/08 10:17 AM.
Re: Reefed main? [Re: Mark P] #162091
12/06/08 10:56 AM
12/06/08 10:56 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 266
UK
Cheshirecatman Offline
enthusiast
Cheshirecatman  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 266
UK
Originally Posted by Mark P
At this years Grafham Cat Open there were 8 F16's, two were sailing with Stealth 'R' mainsails which are just over a meter smaller than the F16. On Saturday it was fairly windy 18-22mph I would imagine and the smaller mains weren't going that well (No offense Pepin/Jeff).
So if I was you Patrick I wouldn't cut down your old main but would consider altering the fullness to make it flatter, check the current luff curve if at it's max it's over 100mm then consider a re-cut to 90mm for instance. I was very surprised what a difference this can make to the overall sail shape/power. My Landy Luff curve had 15mm taken out last Winter (now 85mm. I'm approx 160lbs).
A good few years ago after my crew had fallen through the main I used a Dart 18 mainsail on a Stealth 'R' for a race. Never again. It was like an old potato bag, way to full and nothing I could do to flatten it. But it was a pretty colour!!


The early stealth had a 10 sq m mainsail singlehanded option and proved very competitive to windward in a blow. If you make a sail too flat you not only limit the ability to power up the sail but you also lose the tolerance to trim/sheeting angle and the sail becomes more like an off/on switch. Given that it is usually gusty when the wind gets up a lack of tolerance to trim is the last thing you want. If the sailcut allows, try to blade off the top of the sail whilst keeping the lower sections drawing. I would experiment with using stiffer/reinforcing the upper battens before looking to recut a sail.

Cheshirecatman


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