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#163805 - 01/01/09 01:02 AM The RAZOR  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,443
phill Offline
phill  Offline


veteran

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,443
Central Coast NSW Australia
Folks,
For some time I have been thinking about designing and building a chined F16.
I figure that it is about time I did something about it.
So I have finally started.
The craft will be built much like you would build a chined Kayak.
I will be adding photos to an albumn on catsailor as the work progresses.

If it all goes to plan it should be a pretty easy and quick boat to build.

Only scarfing pics there right now but I hope over the next couple of weeks things should start to take shape. Actually to make it even easier the scarfing could be replaced by butt lap joints allowing all parts to be CNC cut.
Anyhow I will try to tear myself away from some of my other pastimes and see how things progress.

Regards,
Phill

Last edited by phill; 01/01/09 01:11 AM.

I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

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#163817 - 01/01/09 11:52 AM Re: The RAZOR [Re: phill]  
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Blade, Taipan, Stealth, Viper and now the RAZOR which I presume will be the "easy build but still good performance" F16. Things are good!
We also have one-offs like the boat Ncik did (if it is F16 compliant and sailed as an F16, I dont know for sure?), Altered and the rumours of two other designs coming as well (one from Europe/Germany(?)) and one from a well known marine architect and member of CS.

With so many designs to choose from, both from manufacturers and building plans, the biggest issue now is having parts like masts and beams shipped around the globe.


Phill, way to go! Eagerly waiting for more news about the RAZOR build, and not the least, how it sails when it is done!

#163818 - 01/01/09 12:01 PM Re: The RAZOR [Re: Rolf_Nilsen]  
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
PS: Phill, any renderings to show us how you envision the hullshape?

#163826 - 01/01/09 06:28 PM Re: The RAZOR [Re: phill]  
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,920
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
PTP  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,920
Michigan
maybe next year's winter project for me?

#163834 - 01/02/09 12:03 AM Re: The RAZOR [Re: phill]  
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
ejpoulsen Offline
old hand
ejpoulsen  Offline
old hand

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
Stitch and Glue?

Like here:

http://pygmyboats.com/Construction.htm


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
#163836 - 01/02/09 01:06 AM Re: The RAZOR [Re: ejpoulsen]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,443
phill Offline
phill  Offline


veteran

Joined: Jun 2001
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Central Coast NSW Australia
Eric,
Similar but in may ways simpler.
The idea is something that is quick and easy to build.
So only 4 panels plus deck and a minimum number of bulkheads.
No jigs just a stand to hold the hull upright while the parts are assembled. I showed the drawings to a friend today and he is keen to build a 14ft version. Didn't do any work on it today. Went sailing instead. We got 11.5 knots out of a 29ft full bridge deck cruising cat that sleeps 8 going upwind. Damn good for a cruiser and good fun.

Tomorrow I will cut out the panels for the hulls.

Regards,
Phill

Last edited by phill; 01/02/09 01:10 AM.

I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

#163934 - 01/04/09 02:16 AM Re: The RAZOR [Re: phill]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,443
phill Offline
phill  Offline


veteran

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,443
Central Coast NSW Australia
I had a spare hour today after shopping with the other half so I cut out the keel panels. With the side panels also cut out I just need to glue the gunwales on and I can start assembling the hulls.
I may get a chance to glue them on after work tomorrow.

Just have to see.


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

#163967 - 01/04/09 12:55 PM Re: The RAZOR [Re: phill]  
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
ejpoulsen Offline
old hand
ejpoulsen  Offline
old hand

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
I'm interested in a smaller cat for my kids. Nothing available here really suits--in fact, I sold my Hobie 14 turbo because I just hated it and it was still very heavy for my kids. Building a light 14 footer for them is an option; keep us apprised.


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
#164030 - 01/05/09 04:13 AM Re: The RAZOR [Re: ejpoulsen]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,443
phill Offline
phill  Offline


veteran

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,443
Central Coast NSW Australia
Eric,
The idea behind a 14ft version would be not only quick and easy but cheap. I may even end up building a 14ft for myself.
If you are really interested we can talk off line about your preferences for such a craft.
My staple gun was playing up today so only glued the gunwales and stringer for two hull sides. Took one hour each when it should have been half that.
I don't get any more time until Thursday. I think I'll do the other two sides then and then go watch the A class worlds.

I got my brother's wedding Friday, sailing saturday and bike riding sunday and back at work Monday. Bugger- need more days in the week.
Anyhow I'll try to fit in a bit here and there and may even take some more pics over the next week.

Regards,
Phill


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

#164032 - 01/05/09 04:53 AM Re: The RAZOR [Re: phill]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Phill and others,

Quote

The idea behind a 14ft version would be not only quick and easy but cheap. I may even end up building a 14ft for myself.



Over the last months, while playing about with landyachts, I again renewed my desire for a simple small catamaran with a unstayed rig. Just a single sail craft that is easily fully assembled and disassmebled. I'm convinced that a market is to be found for such a craft if its hulls look pleasing enough. Both for kids and adults alike. I too would love to own such a craft fro the small spare hours that I'll be getting in the next years. Not having complex systems like a spi or trap are actually benefits in this concept.

Anyway, take this thought as a general reply not as say advice or anything.

Best of luck !

Wouter


Last edited by Wouter; 01/05/09 04:54 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
#164093 - 01/05/09 07:25 PM Re: The RAZOR [Re: Wouter]  
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
ncik Offline
old hand
ncik  Offline
old hand

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
My mate and I have been building a foiling moth design of his over the holidays. Flat-pack cnc-ed carbon and foam sandwich panels put together in a female mdf jig, with the inside joins taped and frames and bulkheads installed in about 3 hours. Started a week ago and he is fairing the external hull join tapes today, with plenty of mountain biking, missed days and sleeping-in breaking up the build. I estimate about 40 man hours of build time.

Only items left to install are the wand push-rod guide tube and foredeck, should be water-tight and maybe launched by the end of the week, assuming some small parts have been ordered. All other parts are complete from another boat.

The hull build is extremely quick with this method and produces so little dust and fumes. Will definitely consider it, or a modification of this method, for future builds. Maybe flat panel sides and frames with a moulded bottom. There are some big boats being done this way.

Glass or carbon versions of your hull could be popular.

#164120 - 01/05/09 10:33 PM Re: The RAZOR [Re: ncik]  
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,021
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,021
Sebring, Florida.
Ncik, could you build up two of those moths, join them together and have a foiling cat?


Blade F16
#777
#164126 - 01/05/09 11:30 PM Re: The RAZOR [Re: Wouter]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,443
phill Offline
phill  Offline


veteran

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,443
Central Coast NSW Australia
Originally Posted by Wouter
Just a single sail craft that is easily fully assembled and disassmebled. I'm convinced that a market is to be found for such a craft if its hulls look pleasing enough.


Wouter,
A 14ft version will essentially be a single sail craft although may have a hooter option.
Hooter as opposed to spinnaker for easy of rigging and the ability to use upwind in light air.

The hulls seem pleasing enouh to the eye on my PC. I expect the real life one to also look good.
However with the amount of sail area I'd want to put on a 14ft version it won't have an unstayed rig.

I hope to take some pics of progress on Thursday or Friday.

Ncik,
I'm beginning to realise how quick this build would be if the parts were CNC cut and it is quite surprising.
I have a friend nearby building a CNC machine. I'll have to get on his case and get him to finish it before a 14ft version is built.

Regards,
Phill

Last edited by phill; 01/05/09 11:30 PM.

I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

#164128 - 01/06/09 12:20 AM Re: The RAZOR [Re: phill]  
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
ncik Offline
old hand
ncik  Offline
old hand

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
Timbo, it could be done, but easy enough to design dedicated cat hulls. The time consuming to build, or expensive to buy, part is the foils, more than the hulls now-days. And I'm not convinced T-foils are quicker on cats. L'hydroptere dihedral style is the way to go, simpler all-round and probably faster too.

Only problem with CNC is that the larger machines are rarer. We were lucky that the moth fit perfectly on ATL's standard panels and cutter. Larger hulls would require scarfing, but ATL have a system for that too.

#164156 - 01/06/09 09:05 AM Re: The RAZOR [Re: phill]  
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,920
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
PTP  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,920
Michigan
any more pics anywhere of the hulls/concept?

#164354 - 01/07/09 03:29 PM Re: The RAZOR [Re: PTP]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,443
phill Offline
phill  Offline


veteran

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,443
Central Coast NSW Australia
Gero,
The design I'm building can use a butt strap joint instead of a scarf joint. The butt strap is used in the kayaks and 14ft Paper Tiger quite well. I used a scarf joint because I've done heaps of them but someone who is not confident with that type of joint would not have to use it.
The machine being built here is 2500mm long so it could probably make a kit quite easily and that would have a butt strap joint. Just to keep it simple.

Patrick,
I will keep taking pics as the project progresses and I will do a write up on the objectives of the design. Got a lot of family stuff on right now so can only grab an hour here and there but I will try to keep it moving forward.


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

#165024 - 01/14/09 11:39 PM Re: The RAZOR [Re: phill]  
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
ncik Offline
old hand
ncik  Offline
old hand

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...

#165182 - 01/16/09 07:31 PM Re: The RAZOR [Re: phill]  
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
ejpoulsen Offline
old hand
ejpoulsen  Offline
old hand

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
Originally Posted by phill
Originally Posted by Wouter
Just a single sail craft that is easily fully assembled and disassmebled. I'm convinced that a market is to be found for such a craft if its hulls look pleasing enough.

A 14ft version will essentially be a single sail craft although may have a hooter option.
Hooter as opposed to spinnaker for easy of rigging and the ability to use upwind in light air.

The hulls seem pleasing enouh to the eye on my PC. I expect the real life one to also look good.
However with the amount of sail area I'd want to put on a 14ft version it won't have an unstayed rig.

I hope to take some pics of progress on Thursday or Friday.

Ncik,
I'm beginning to realise how quick this build would be if the parts were CNC cut and it is quite surprising.
I have a friend nearby building a CNC machine. I'll have to get on his case and get him to finish it before a 14ft version is built.

Regards,
Phill


any update?


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
#165193 - 01/17/09 05:15 AM Re: The RAZOR [Re: ejpoulsen]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,443
phill Offline
phill  Offline


veteran

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,443
Central Coast NSW Australia
Eric,
I have not been near the Razor for a week or two and it will most likely be another two weeks before I get back to it.
The last week and next two weeks are going to be very hectic.
But in two weeks time I will again have some time for the Razor.
When I get a chance I will try to take a couple of pics of where I'm at.

Regards,
Phill


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

#165196 - 01/17/09 08:05 AM Re: The RAZOR [Re: phill]  
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 196
CaptainKirt Offline
member
CaptainKirt  Offline
member

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 196
Arkansas, USA
Phill-
Don't forget to get some sailing in too!! About the joints- What about utilizing a "step" as in the hydroplane floats, speedboats and some cats at the joint? If you had a bulkhead there it would be even easier if you wanted a significant step, ie more than just the thickness of the hull material.

Kirt


Kirt Simmons
Taipan, Flyer
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