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#16813 - 03/02/03 12:39 PM Center sheeting systems  
Joined: Jul 2002
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DanWard Offline
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DanWard  Offline
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Yardley PA
I know some of you A class and Tornado guys have had experience with main sheet systems that are lead to the center of the tramp. What are the pros and cons of this arrangement...Thanks Dan

-- Have You Seen This? --
#16814 - 03/02/03 02:17 PM Re: Center sheeting systems [Re: DanWard]  
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Hakan Frojdh Offline
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North Europe, Sweden, Uppsala
Good things
* When you stand in trapeze you pull direcly "downwards" instead of sligtly aft when sheeting. At least for the A-cat.
* When gybing in tight corners you can face forward.
* Wild thing on the A-cat when you sit near the rear beam facing forward it is really confortable since you have the sheet in front of you.
* You don't pull the traveller up when sheeting hard.

Bad things
* Messy to install
* Makes the tramp a bit more messy with lines and it is easier to get tangled during a tack.
* Since the T added spi most boats have removed the center sheeting to get more space for the spi lines and cleats.

/hakan

#16815 - 03/02/03 06:38 PM Re: Center sheeting systems [Re: Hakan Frojdh]  
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rhodysail Offline
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How do you tack and jibe?

#16816 - 03/02/03 09:18 PM Re: Center sheeting systems [Re: rhodysail]  
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MauganN20 Offline
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Like you would normally maybe?

#16817 - 03/03/03 12:41 AM Re: Center sheeting systems [Re: MauganN20]  
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Mary Offline
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Not totally normal. I am having trouble visualizing it myself.

It seems like the choreography would have to be changed, both for the tack and the jibe, when you're doing that little dance across the deck.

#16818 - 03/03/03 07:33 AM Re: Center sheeting systems [Re: Mary]  
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MauganN20 Offline
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I'm imagining you do it just like a monohull with a center sheeting system.

#16819 - 03/03/03 08:03 AM Re: Center sheeting systems [Re: DanWard]  
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carlbohannon Offline
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Houston
Cons:
With center sheeting I was always grabbing the blocks wondering why the main would not uncleat during tacks. Then once I got used to it, I was always trying to uncleat some odd piece of line in the middle of the tramp on rear sheeting boats.

Pros:
Your crew doesn't saw your leg in half going upwind on single trap Tornado's
It is a lot easier to rig a cascading mainsheet system

#16820 - 03/03/03 08:12 AM Re: Center sheeting systems [Re: MauganN20]  
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Mary Offline
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Maugan,
With a monohull, you don't have to turn around backwards and pass the tiller around behind the mainsheet system.

#16821 - 03/03/03 10:15 AM Re: Center sheeting systems [Re: carlbohannon]  
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Mary Offline
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Carl and Hakan,
I can understand the benefit of center sheeting on a sloop rig where the crew is usually handling the mainsheet. But I cannot understand the benefit as well on a singlehander (or on a sloop rig where the helmsman handles the mainsheet).

With rear sheeting, if the helmsman is holding the sheet, it helps to stabilize him when he is on the trapeze and keep him from being thrown forward. Doesn't he lose this benefit with center sheeting?

#16822 - 03/03/03 10:16 AM Re: Center sheeting systems [Re: Mary]  
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MauganN20 Offline
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Mary:

If I had a center sheeting system, why would I need to have the tiller behind the sheet? I'd get the crossbar in front of the sheet.

#16823 - 03/03/03 10:26 AM Re: Center sheeting systems [Re: MauganN20]  
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Mary Offline
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Interesting imagery.

#16824 - 03/03/03 11:03 AM Re: Center sheeting systems [Re: Mary]  
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samevans Offline
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Mary: When the crew is handling the mainsheet, the skipper is usually holding the traveler sheet.

Maugan: I had lengthened the tiller arms on my 18sq. so that the tiller crossbar was ahead of the mainsheet blocks.
This worked OK because I often raced in very light air at Lake Norman. Not having to move to the back of the boat for a jibe or tack was very handy. When it was really light, I could sit in the middle of the boat and just push the tiller over and not move.
Once I learned the new technique, it made for some very fast tacks in heavy air because I always had good control of the tiller.
The Hobie 17 has a very long Hot Stick which may not fit under the boom.

#16825 - 03/03/03 11:39 AM Re: Center sheeting systems [Re: samevans]  
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Mary Offline
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Yeah, Sam, I forgot -- I guess you are saying that with center sheeting and a crew handling the mainsheet, the helmsman could still use the traveler sheet to stabilize himself from getting thrown forward. Rick always uses the mainsheet for that purpose, so I wasn't thinking about the traveler.

Regarding what Maugan said, the reason the imagery was interesting was that he was talking about putting the whole tiller crossbar in front of not just the mainsheet system but in front of the sheet. I don't think he meant to say it the way it sounded.

When you lengthened your tillers to put the crossbar in front of the mainsheet system, did it affect your steering leverage in any way?

Last edited by Mary; 03/03/03 11:48 AM.
#16826 - 03/03/03 12:14 PM Re: Center sheeting systems [Re: samevans]  
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MauganN20 Offline
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Our old club catamaran (windspeed 15) had its crossbar fore of the sheet. Never had a problem getting the extension under the sail (no boom), of course, its not an extension like the 17 has :P

#16827 - 03/03/03 01:56 PM Re: Center sheeting systems [Re: samevans]  
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Mark L Offline
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Mark L  Offline
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Two questions: Sam, when the tiller crossbar is in front
of the traveler and mainsheet blocks, and you are traveled
all the way out, does the extended tiller arm hit the mainsheet blocks and limit steering? Also, how does one rig
the center tramp block in such a way as not to rip out
the tramp? Thanks.

#16828 - 03/03/03 02:26 PM Re: Center sheeting systems [Re: samevans]  
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Mary Offline
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Sam, it is not clear as to whether on your 18-square you were using center sheeting or rear sheeting when you lengthened your tillers to put the tiller crossbar in front of the mainsheet system.

#16829 - 03/03/03 02:58 PM Re: Center sheeting systems [Re: Mary]  
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Todd_Sails Offline
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42.904444 N; 88.008586 W
Mark L,

It takes some special rigging for the center mounted mainsheet cleat.

Hey people, ever sail a TRAC 16? It has the tiller crossbar in front of the mainsheet. You have to reverse the role of each hand when you're used to a standard cat. I.E. the fore most hand now runs the tiller, isntead of the aftmost hand.


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#16830 - 03/03/03 04:22 PM Re: Center sheeting systems [Re: Mary]  
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samevans Offline
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I have never used center sheeting.
My 18sq. had traveler(rear) sheeting.
I was only referring to the crossbar/mainsheet issue.
My 18sq. had straight tiller arms, not the angled arms, so I did lose a few inches of outward travel, but when you are already 11 feet wide it makes little difference.
I am currently using "top" sheeting on my Hobie 17. The cleat is at the boom.
When I switched to a very light mainsheet and 40mm blocks, I found that the line didn't have enough weight to "whip" out of the cleat when sheeted hard.
When trapping low on the wing, it was even harder.
I would have to whip it so many times to get it to release that I would have a very painful "tennis elbow" at the end of a regatta.
I never lose the mainsheet in that pile of line on the tramp either because it is hanging right in my face when I cross the boat.

#16831 - 03/03/03 07:02 PM Re: Center sheeting systems [Re: samevans]  
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Mark L Offline
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Mark L  Offline
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I am considering switching to either center tramp mainsheet or boom mainsheet cleating on my 18sq.
With the tramp being ten foot wide, I think that it may
be a bit too floppy. What do you think would work better,
tramp or boom? Have you found boom cleating to be hard
to cleat under high loads? Seems that it might require lifting your arm pretty high up to cleat.
Main reason for my desire to try something different is
so I can increase mainsheet tension without centering the traveler.

Thanks, Mark L.

#16832 - 03/04/03 08:45 AM Re: Center sheeting systems [Re: Mary]  
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carlbohannon Offline
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Houston
Hi Mary

Let me start out with, I have both systems for my Tornado and I normally use rear sheeting.

The Marstrom center sheeting system has some advantages. The advantages are mostly related to it's complexity. You can set it to match what you want.

For example
* You can run the mainsheet and the traveler to the center and the lines always go to the same place.
* You can run only the mainsheet and have 2 cleats
* You can set the cascading mainsheet so you don't have to pull in as much line after each tack.

If you ignore the mechanicals, There is not a lot of difference overall. One is harder to work when you are forward and the other harder when you are aft As for the mainsheet holding a trapping skipper in place, I never saw a lot of difference. Again it was easier when I was forward and harder when I was aft. Just the opposite of a rear sheeting system. (I have heard complaints that it is hard to let out a little line and cleat the main when tacking a Marstrom A with center sheeting because it is hard to uncleat fast enough if you get a puff)

All in all the center and rear sheeting systems were about equal. I decided to use the rear sheeting because it is simpler and it was faster for me especially in panic mode.


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