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#184191 - 07/05/09 10:18 PM Freestyle 474  
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ryanm Offline
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ryanm  Offline
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Minnesota
About a year ago there was a discussion about a Freestyle 474...

http://www.catsailor.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=141884&page=1

Well I bought the boat and fixed it up a bit and wanted to share my knowledge and show some of the pictures

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

We repainted the hulls and added some vinyl decals. We repainted the daggers and the rudders and replaced all the lines and rigging. Next year we want to get a nice mylar sail or a square top and maybe a spinnaker. I also attached a picture of us sailing in the cold spring.

Attached Files
-- Have You Seen This? --
#184196 - 07/06/09 02:10 AM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: ryanm]  
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scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Looks very good.

I would say that you need to get the mast raked further back as it looks, from those pictures that it is raked forward. YOu do not want the mast raked forward!


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
#184198 - 07/06/09 04:50 AM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: scooby_simon]  
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Storz Offline
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Really cool looking boat! When were they made?


Ryan
1983 Isotope
#184208 - 07/06/09 06:42 AM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: ryanm]  
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tomthouse Offline
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Near SLC, Utah
You did a nice job on that 747 Freestyle.

They are great boats.

The unirig is simple and powers the boat for lots of fun in the sun sailing.

We use ours on a lake but have taken it on the 30 mile trip from San Pedro, southern California to Catalina Island.

It performs quite well in either kind of sailing.

We often sail it with a crew but it handles best as a single handing boat.

After we blew up the mast on my boat, sailing fast with several people on board, we drove to Canada to pick up a replacement mast.

The fellow was kind enough to offer a package deal which included a spinnaker set up.

He blew up one hull by folding it at the front beam when flying a mast head spinnaker, without a spreader at the base of the bridle wire.

That 474 mast is pretty light and thin walled and never intended for a spinnaker.

I think it would have been OK with a spreader.

Tom

Last edited by tomthouse; 07/06/09 03:05 PM.
#184209 - 07/06/09 06:49 AM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: tomthouse]  
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fredsmith Offline
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Southern Ontario
I like it, but then I love single handed uni-rigged boats.
Good luck with the other alterations.

Fred Smith
A Cat

#184223 - 07/06/09 09:41 AM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: scooby_simon]  
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ryanm Offline
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Originally Posted by scooby_simon
Looks very good.

I would say that you need to get the mast raked further back as it looks, from those pictures that it is raked forward. YOu do not want the mast raked forward!


Ya, i was going to ask about that. The forstay was that length when we picked it up. I noticed how far forward it was and it caught my attention, but then a cat owner down at my beach said that because it doesnt have a front sail it'd be fine. I still want to replace it though. Would it affect the boat's preformance a lot?

#184224 - 07/06/09 09:43 AM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: ryanm]  
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ryanm Offline
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Hey Tom,
Do you still use the standard rudder setup or did you replace it?

#184228 - 07/06/09 09:56 AM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: ryanm]  
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DougSnell Offline
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The foil or spreader really takes load of the hulls. And you MUST be sheeted in and travailed in before you pop the chute on a small boat, as this works as a backstay.

Doug

#184233 - 07/06/09 10:21 AM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: DougSnell]  
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ryanm Offline
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Doug,
I currently dont have a chute on my boat but thanks for the advice.

#184239 - 07/06/09 11:21 AM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: ryanm]  
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tomthouse Offline
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Near SLC, Utah
"Do you still use the standard rudder setup or did you replace it?"

I still have the standard rudders and steering assembly.

I've always thought they were a "weak-link" in the boat's design.

I've sailed the sox off that boat in all kinds of conditions on lakes and in coastal waters and found the steering assembly to hold up quite well.

the only modification I've made was to install a lanyard to assist the rudder to stay in the up position when on my mooring.

I got tired of seeing the rudders bounce around and wear as they repeatedly hit the tiller arm with every wave cycle.

Great boat!

It's always been one of my favorites.

It sails great, it easily rights and simplicity is a plus.

I've (inadvertently) gone out of my way a few times to pitch-pole that boat a few times and it resists smartly.

I think the one time it did pitch-pole was when I lost my footing a slid off the front beam. Following that spectacular maneuver the boat followed and stayed on its toes long enough for me to start wondering how I'd pull it over so I could right it.

The only problem I can remember is the daggerboards never want to stay where I put them... they always migrate to the "full-down" position...especially in chop.

I'd guess a small strip of carpet glued to the inside of the trunk or the outside of the board would solve that issue.

I've also worried a bit about losing a daggerboard in a capsize or turtle in bumpy conditions...however that has never occurred.

#184300 - 07/06/09 10:04 PM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: tomthouse]  
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ryanm Offline
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Minnesota
Could you explain how you kept the rudders up a bit better? i ran a rope through a cleat but there isnt enough force to keep it up out of the water. I also have the same problem with the dagger boards. I installed shock cord with foam rollers to help, but i need some thicker shock cord to have more force.

#184321 - 07/07/09 07:18 AM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: ryanm]  
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tomthouse Offline
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Near SLC, Utah
The lines I've installed to keep my rudders from banging up and down when on the mooring are pretty simple.

I tied a 1/8 inch double braid line to the rudders bungie cord attachment hole.

I looped the other end of the line through the intersection of the tiller and cross bar and tied a rolling hitch or taut line hitch so I could quickly slip the knot up and down the line to tighten or loosen the line that holds up the rudders without untying any knots.

I leave the line attached all the time and simply loosen it when sailing and tighten it when on the mooring.

Rolling hitch:
http://www.animatedknots.com/rollin...og.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

Taut line hitch:
http://www.douglasbsa.com/knots/taunt.html

One of my next projects is to set the boat up with a spinnaker.

That should add some fun in the sun.

#184322 - 07/07/09 07:27 AM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: ryanm]  
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tomthouse Offline
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Near SLC, Utah
I was just thinking about those 474 dagger boards slipping.

I use 3/4 PVC pipe to protect the tensioning bungies and very heavy bungie cord and the boards still slip.

The down side of the heavy bungies is that they realy put some pressure on the tramp gommets.

I like your idea of the foam rollers. However last time I tried that the foam deteriorated pretty fast.

I'm half thinking that using some bike handlebar tape might add enough friction to those pesky dagger board bungie pipe keepers and bike tape is pretty tough and pretty inexpensive.

I've used that bike tape for years to soften and add some friction to the grips on my tiller hiking extensions.

#184352 - 07/07/09 10:59 AM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: tomthouse]  
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ejpoulsen Offline
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Tom,
I will be at Bear Lake from July 22; if you need any crew to sail let me know.
Eric


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
#184355 - 07/07/09 11:24 AM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: ejpoulsen]  
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dave mosley Offline
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Doesnt that boat look alot like the SC17?


The men were amazed, and said, "What kind of a man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?" Matthew 8:27





#184366 - 07/07/09 01:28 PM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: dave mosley]  
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tomthouse Offline
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Near SLC, Utah
Eric Poulsen:
It's always nice to have you drop by our Bear Lake House. It is beautiful up that way and often very nice sailing.

Dave Mosely:
The 474 Freestyle is a lot like a SC 17 or even the SC 15 that was in production for a few years.

When mice trashed my 474 Main I couldn't locate a replacement. I eventually went to a SC 15 main with no alterations to anything.

I got that sail from Aquarius Sails Inc., who still supports Supercats, RC and ARC catamarans.
http://www.aquarius-sail.com/

Tom Haberman is a great guy and a great resource.

The only difference I've notices is the SC 15 main is a bit shorter (head to tack) than was the 474 main. However it gives me a bit more head room when ducking under the main on tacks and jibes.

Both boats are great boats...and fun to sail...!

I still have my SC 17...

Anyway, on those slippery dagger boards...I have some friends who simply glued some indoor outdoor carpet strips to the inside of their dagger board trunks.

That also helped the dagger boards to stay put.

The one or two inch carpet strips were cheap, easy, lasted for quite some time and were easily and cheaply replaced.

I might try that also....though I can't remember if they glued the strips virtically or just around the bottom of the trunks where they could easily reach them.

It has been some time since I saw them and I don't recall...exactly.

When I'm sailing it isn't much of an issue...the boards are usually down. I usaully only pull them up wehn landing.

I have installed a short 1/8 inch diameter eight inch long lanyard to each of my dagger board, in additon to the 1/2 inch diameter loops that I use to pull the boards up.

After the boards are pulled up and when I put the boat on the mooring I use the 1/8 diameter lanyards to tie the top of the boards to my trap lines, just above the trap line grab bars.

That keeps the boards in the up position when periodically bouncing around on the mooring ball.


Last edited by tomthouse; 07/07/09 01:57 PM.
#184374 - 07/07/09 02:51 PM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: tomthouse]  
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ryanm Offline
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Minnesota
Tom,
I might try the carpet. The rollers are working as of now but dont seem like the will hold up in the long run.

As for the mast being raked forward, could someone tell if this is affecting the performance of the boat?

Thanks,
Ryan

#184385 - 07/07/09 04:52 PM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: ryanm]  
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tomthouse Offline
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Near SLC, Utah
The boat's "performance is affected by lots of things...as is the boat's "center of effort".

Rig rake is one of them.

As a result mast rake affects the boat's pointing, weather and lee helm characteristics.

Most boat's center of effort is also affected by the point of sail, how the main is cut, etc.

Some of this you've probably felt in how the "helm feels". This changes when going to weather or sailing down wind.

"Helm feel" also seems to change as wind and boat speeds increase.

It changes as one rakes the ruddrs fore or aft.

Of course helm characteristics or "feels" is also affected by how one balances the sheeting of the main and jib or spinnaker.

I find on most boats when going to weather the helm maybe more "weatherly" as the wind and boat speeds get higher and when running the helm will be less so and even be a neutral or even become a lee helm as wind and boat speed increase down wind (perhaps a dangerous thing).

The center of effort on a stock boat is probably close to a line drawn between the dagger boards.

It is the pivot point about which the boat's mast and rudders pivot.

If the boat's center of effort is in front of that dagger board line the boat has weather helm (a good thing unless taken to an extreme).

If the mast rake moves the boat's center of effort aft of that line the boat has lee helm (not a good thing at all).

You can get rid of lee helm by raking the mast or get rid of overly heavy weather helm by rake the mast less.

I'd like to hear what others have to say, in answer to your question.

#184387 - 07/07/09 05:15 PM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: tomthouse]  
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bobcat Offline
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Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Quote
If the boat's center of effort is in front of that dagger board line the boat has weather helm (a good thing unless taken to an extreme).

If the mast rake moves the boat's center of effort aft of that line the boat has lee helm (not a good thing at all).


I believe you have these reversed.



F16 Blade 716
#184407 - 07/07/09 10:47 PM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: bobcat]  
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ryanm Offline
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On most catamarans is there hardware on the forstay for adjusting the the rake? And could some other users input on the raking?

#184416 - 07/08/09 05:19 AM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: ryanm]  
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erice Offline
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japan
if you want to rake your mast further aft, and it is already as far aft as the forestay chainplate allows, then you are in exactly the same situation as the hobie 16 guys about 10 years ago

in their case rather than lengthen the forestay most just added a 2nd chainplate. now that hobie has realised that the hobie 16 goes better with more rake they have lengthened the forestay itself so owners don't have to add the extra chainplate/adjuster

ie i suggest you add a 2nd chainplate to your forestay bridal before buying a longer forestay

edit. rereading your last post it sounds as if you have NO forestay chainplate/adjuster, if that is so, get yea down to your local chandlers and get one

this is what you should be looking like

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/6kfFxrtYvhb5YCVHBPxSRw

Last edited by erice; 07/08/09 05:24 AM.

eric e
1982 nacra 5.2 - 2158
2009 weta tri - 294
#184419 - 07/08/09 06:40 AM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: erice]  
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pepin Offline
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France
Don't bother with a forestay chainplate. use a length of non-stretch line, attach the two bridles end with a bowline, loop the line a couple of time between the stay and the bridles, tie a good knot, done. Instant solution, less hardware. If you have a mast up storage, tape the knot.

#184426 - 07/08/09 07:44 AM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: ryanm]  

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Originally Posted by ryanm
On most catamarans is there hardware on the forstay for adjusting the the rake? And could some other users input on the raking?


I only skimmed some of these more lenghty posts.. so please excuse me if this has been asnwered ... on my TheMightyHobie18 rake was adjusted by going DOWN 1 (or more) holes on the side stay chain plates and UP 1 (or more) holes on the forestay chainplate.

On my current boat i use a ring on my furling jib (turnbuckle) that i tie with line, so there is no chainplate. I set the side stays where i want them and tie the forestay.

#184429 - 07/08/09 07:59 AM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: pepin]  
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scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Originally Posted by pepin
Don't bother with a forestay chainplate. use a length of non-stretch line, attach the two bridles end with a bowline, loop the line a couple of time between the stay and the bridles, tie a good knot, done. Instant solution, less hardware. If you have a mast up storage, tape the knot.


Agreed. Also allows you to fine tune your rig tension.

As for taping it up. ALways tape the knot up.






F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
#184432 - 07/08/09 08:25 AM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: scooby_simon]  
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ryanm Offline
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Minnesota
pepin, ill give that a try. It is mast up storage, but with your idea i wont even have to lower the mast. Do you have a picture of it?

#184433 - 07/08/09 08:36 AM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: scooby_simon]  
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pepin Offline
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pepin  Offline
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France
Originally Posted by ryanm
pepin, ill give that a try. It is mast up storage, but with your idea i wont even have to lower the mast. Do you have a picture of it?
I'm sailing tonight, I'll try to remember to take a pic of my forestay.

#184477 - 07/08/09 11:41 AM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: ryanm]  
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David Parker Offline
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Dunedin Causeway, FL
Here's what we use around here. We call it a Portuguese turnbuckle. It makes mast rake and rig tensioning easy and can be done solo. Start by tying about 3 feet of 5/32 line to your forestay. When you've looped it to about 3 to 1 onto your bridles/furler you can haul downward and tighten the rig WAY tight. If you want to rake further just ease this turnbuckle, drop the side stay pins down a hole and retension the turnbuckle. Tack your jib to the furler shackle and the whole turnbuckle hides inside the jib luff.

Attached Files
5 - Turnbuckle 6 to 1.JPG (234 downloads)
6 - Turnbuckle.JPG (228 downloads)
#184478 - 07/08/09 11:45 AM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: David Parker]  

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Dave, why are you messing with my boat/forestay? Next time i will have to turn on my electo-shock alarm...

Last edited by andrewscott; 07/08/09 11:46 AM.
#184479 - 07/08/09 11:49 AM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: ]  
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David Parker Offline
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Yes, Andrew, it looks like your Mystere 5.5 but it's acutally my old Mystere 5.0XL (notice the rust stain). I've been doing using this rig for years on many boats. I think it's the stock setup on the Dart 18. It's never broken, easy to adjust, and nothing has matched it's simplicity.

#184506 - 07/08/09 02:10 PM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: David Parker]  
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ryanm Offline
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David,
I appreciate the help. Im gonna try this tomorrow and let you know how it works.

#184560 - 07/09/09 03:01 AM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: pepin]  
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pepin Offline
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pepin  Offline
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France
Originally Posted by pepin
I'm sailing tonight, I'll try to remember to take a pic of my forestay.
I completely forgot to take a pic, but my setup is exactly the same as the portuguese turnbuckle in David's pics.

#216348 - 07/22/10 12:54 PM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: pepin]  
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Ian Cowie Offline
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Stoney Lake, ON, Canada
Daggerboards:
When I am beaching and storing, I use the loop of rope on the top of the daggerboards and hook that over the trap handles. While sailing, I use bungee cord slipped through a piece of fabric reinforced hose - Tygon?. The hose about 6" longer than the width of the daggerboard. The ends of the bungee cord go through the supplied grommets in the trap and are knotted on the underside.

Rudders:
Same thing is used to hold up the rudders ... bungee cord and a piece of hose. Length of hose is about 10" long. Center the hose in the hole in the rudder and then run a length of bungee through the hose. Pass both ends of the bungee cord through the rudder tiller and tie the end together. The knot will then catch on the tiller/tiller bar bolt. I can take some close-up photos this weekend and post.
[Linked Image]
Ian


Freestyle 474, Hobie 18, Hobie 16, Tornado
#286729 - 04/29/17 05:18 PM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: Ian Cowie]  
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nobrush Offline
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Hi,
I'm trying to set up the rigging on my Freestyle 474 and was wondering if you ever got this dialed in? I'm wondering what lengths to have my mainstays at since all my rigging was stolen in a vehicle a long time ago.


Bflo


“If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration.” - Nikola Tesla
#287363 - 06/19/17 03:43 PM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: nobrush]  
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Ian Cowie Offline
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Ian Cowie  Offline
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Stoney Lake, ON, Canada
Okay let me try to get you the rigging information.

Here is an overall view of the mast with all the rigging attached. I personally never remove any of the rigging and simply use the halyard to tie up all the wires and make it a neat package to store away in the winter.

[Linked Image]

Here I have layed out the halyard which is 55' long or one foot longer than the rope doubled the length of the 27' mast.

[Linked Image]

This shows the wires attached to the mast:
[Linked Image]

There are 5 wires.
Outer pair are the trapeze wires, the inner pair are the shrouds and the centre wire is the forestay.

Trapeze Wires:
These are 0.1" (3/32") diam by 205.5" measuring from thimble to thimble. So the length of the wire itself would have to be a few inches longer to allow wrapping around the the thimble and fastened with the swaged fitting.
Remember to slide on a trapeze handle before terminating the wire with the thimble and swaged fitting.[Linked Image]

Shroud Wires:
These are 0.13" (1/8") diam by 236.5" measuring from thimble to thimble.
Shroud is terminated with an adjustable fitting or stay aduster.
[Linked Image]

Forestay Wire:
This is comprised of a single 0.13" (1/8") diam by 167.5" wire connected to a bridle of 2 @ 0.13" (1/8") diam by 75" wires.
The connection of the forestay to the bridle is shown here.
[Linked Image]

Hope that helps!
Ian
(No clue why the last picture won't show up ... I'll just post another followup.






Last edited by Damon Linkous; 06/19/17 03:56 PM.

Freestyle 474, Hobie 18, Hobie 16, Tornado
#287365 - 06/19/17 04:00 PM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: Ian Cowie]  
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Damon Linkous Offline
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enthusiast

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Memphis, Tennessee
Originally Posted by Ian Cowie

(No clue why the last picture won't show up ... I'll just post another followup.

There was a limit set to only allow 5 image tags in a forum post, I've changed that to ten. There does need to be a limit to prevent having so many images in one post that the page never loads, but five is probably too low.

Thanks for posting the Freestyle info, you never know who you are helping out there.

#287588 - 07/03/17 10:38 PM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: ryanm]  
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nobrush Offline
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I'm curious what type of ferrules are used on your boat. I bought aluminum ones (without really thinking since it was at West Marine) years ago preparing to rig the boat, then was thinking to use Stainless, but then have been told people use nickel plated copper. It appears that's what these are.

Last edited by nobrush; 07/03/17 10:39 PM.

“If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration.” - Nikola Tesla
#287632 - 07/11/17 09:40 AM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: nobrush]  
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 11
Ian Cowie Offline
stranger
Ian Cowie  Offline
stranger

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 11
Stoney Lake, ON, Canada
Nobrush ... need a little more info regarding your question about ferrules ... namely ... what ferrules? Does my boat have ferrules? Sorry but I must call your "ferrules" something else as I am confused as to what boat part you are referring.
Cheers!


Freestyle 474, Hobie 18, Hobie 16, Tornado
#287633 - 07/11/17 09:43 AM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: ryanm]  
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 11
Ian Cowie Offline
stranger
Ian Cowie  Offline
stranger

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 11
Stoney Lake, ON, Canada
I posted a video on Youtube about raising the mast on my 474. Check it out at Freestyle 474 - Raising Mast.

Cheers!
Ian


Freestyle 474, Hobie 18, Hobie 16, Tornado
#287634 - 07/12/17 07:12 AM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: Ian Cowie]  
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 94
Mn3Again Offline
journeyman
Mn3Again  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 94
fl
The product which is used to make an Eye splice is known as: Oval Sleeve, Figure 8 Sleeve, Hourglass Sleeve, Duplex Sleeve, Ferrule, Nicos.


Originally Posted by Ian Cowie
Nobrush ... need a little more info regarding your question about ferrules ... namely ... what ferrules? Does my boat have ferrules? Sorry but I must call your "ferrules" something else as I am confused as to what boat part you are referring.
Cheers!


Mn3
#287635 - 07/12/17 07:53 AM Re: Freestyle 474 [Re: nobrush]  
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 801
Isotope235 Offline
old hand
Isotope235  Offline
old hand

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 801
Hillsborough, NC USA
Originally Posted by nobrush
I'm curious what type of ferrules are used on your boat. I bought aluminum ones (without really thinking since it was at West Marine) years ago preparing to rig the boat, then was thinking to use Stainless, but then have been told people use nickel plated copper. It appears that's what these are.

Use copper swages (either bare or zinc-plated). Aluminum swage sleeves are not as strong and therefore unsuitable for load-bearing applications (deck railings yes - boat rigging no). Stainless steel ferrules generally need much greater pressure and require hydraulic swaging tools.

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