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A tip for race committee #194691
10/27/09 02:40 PM
10/27/09 02:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 807
Hillsborough, NC USA
I
Isotope235 Offline OP
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Isotope235  Offline OP
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I

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Posts: 807
Hillsborough, NC USA
Whenever I anchor a race support boat, I tie a float such as a fender or an unused pfd to the bitter end of the anchor line (instead of tying the line to the boat or leaving it completely free). That way, should I need to break station in an emergency, all I have to do is cast off the anchor line. I can come back to the float and retrieve the anchor later. The few minutes this saves may be important in a safety situation, especially in winter sailing.

This past weekend, Joleen and I were running a local race when a puff capsized one of the boats near the weather mark. We saw they were having difficulty righting, so we cast off the anchor, motored up, offered assistance, took crew aboard, righted the boat, made sure everybody was ok, motored back to our anchor, tied up, and took finishes.

Now, the wind picked up in that race, and it turned out to be a short one (only about 16 minutes). The entire round trip for us was about 8-9. If we'd had to weigh and re-set the anchor, we wouldn't have made it. We'd have had to abandon instead. This little trick just paid off for us.

Regards,
Eric

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: A tip for race committee [Re: Isotope235] #194706
10/27/09 04:37 PM
10/27/09 04:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
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Detroit, MI
Eric,

This is a standard BIMBO practice that I teach in my BIMBO Boot Camp (Mark Boat Operators Course). I've started the process of getting US Sailing to develop a formal MBO course / certification program.

All hail the BIMBOs!

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Re: A tip for race committee [Re: mbounds] #194723
10/27/09 08:08 PM
10/27/09 08:08 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 807
Hillsborough, NC USA
I
Isotope235 Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Hillsborough, NC USA
US Sailing does offer a very good "Safety, Support, and Mark Boat Operator" course. It teaches motorboat handling, course setting, and rescue procedures. I took it several years ago, with no prior motorboat experience, and that's where I learned how to drive.

Joleen is a card-carrying member of BIMBO. I've been promised a card, but haven't gotten one yet.

Re: A tip for race committee [Re: Isotope235] #194727
10/27/09 08:37 PM
10/27/09 08:37 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 26
NC
J
Joleen Offline
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Joleen  Offline
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Posts: 26
NC
I earned my BIMBO card as Pin Boat Captain - sunfish worlds - Charleston - 99 boats on the start, heavy current. SR BIMBO office (GATE BOAT) motored over to check my setting after two difficult starts - I got thumbs up. Granted, I was not happy with the line for the duration of the event, a 10 degree adjustment for current, but still very lonely at the pin. (Pin was just outside the channel).

Prior to taking the US Sailing course, I was not confident driving a motorboat, and docking was a nightmare. The instructor (Dick Alsopp)
spent alot of additional time teaching me how to throttle down, as he wasn't going to pass me if I couldn't control the throttle. Now, I have no concerns about driving an RC boat such as would be used on a lake , granted starting a boat is still a challenge - darn engines - lack of Y chromozone. Also, I don't have alot of ocean, waves, big boat driving experience.

Re: A tip for race committee [Re: Joleen] #194728
10/27/09 09:05 PM
10/27/09 09:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
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mbounds  Offline
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Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
Dick Alsopp is fantastic, but his course focuses more on motorboat driving skills and less on the race management aspect.

My course assumes you know how to handle a small motor boat already and goes from there:
- Terminology and Rules
- Safety
- Radio Usage
- Tools of the Trade - Wind Meters / GPS / Hand Bearing Compasses
- Marks and Ground Tackle
- Setting Techniques
- During the Race
- Post Race
- Psychology

A great inspiration was the "Mark Laying Duties and Procedures" manual from the 2008 Olympics.

The last page (Mark Boat Officer Certification) is impressive:
To obtain this certification mark boat officers must be able to consistently demonstrate performance of the following in rough conditions of open water, winds up to 25 knots with 2 m waves and current up to 3 knots in any direction

Boat handling - be able to:
1 operate a power boat in rough conditions
2 standby 5m – 10m from a fixed object (an anchored mark)
3 standby 5m – 10m from a drifting object (yacht or person)
4 steer to a given compass direction.
5 steer to a waypoint given the bearing and distance from a reference position.
6 steer to a waypoint given by latitude and longitude.
7 come along side an anchored boat in reasonable wind and sea conditions to safely transfer objects and people.
8 come along side a wharf or jetty.
9 anchor in the intended position taking into account current, wind, waves and water depth.
10 retrieve the boat’s anchor using a retrieval ball within 2 minutes of being given the instruction.

Mark Laying - be able to:
11 inflate and deflate marks in no longer time than would be taken on land.
12 lay a mark within 20m of a given position consistently, without problems within 2 minutes, with the mark upright and with allowance made for current, waves and wind.
13 retrieve a mark (anchored in 30 m of water) when standing nearby within two minutes of being given the instruction.
14 retrieve a mark using the retrieval buoy method.
15 read the supplied tables to obtain the distance and bearing to the reference point of each mark of the course given the course axis and the distance to mark 1
16 stream and tow a mark to facilitate dropping in a desired position. (e.g. for a gate mark, start mark or finish mark)
17 be one of two boats to lay a pair of gate marks the correct distance apart and at the correct angle, with allowance made for current, waves and wind.
18 correct a gate mark position to achieve the correct orientation and distance.
19 replace a mark with a small buoy and vice versa.

GPS Usage – be able to:
20 enter a latitude and longitude of a given position.
21 enter the boats position into the GPS using the Mark function (“ping” a position)
22 rename waypoints
23 save a new waypoint given a range and bearing from an existing waypoint
24 use the MOB function to identify a reference position
25 retrieve from the GPS the latitude and longitude of saved waypoints and present position.
Laser Range Finder Usage – be able to:
26 Set a laser range finder to metres and be able to use it to find the distance to an object.
Recording – be able to:
27 measure and record wind speed and direction from a drifting boat and graph to obtain trends.
28 measure and record current data
(i) using a tide stick
(ii) using the GPS in strong current.
29 record mark roundings with times.

Using a radio – be able to:
30 use correct procedures when transmitting and receiving radio communications.

Signal RRS information during a race – be able to:
31 anchor in the correct position to signal a course change, or Flag O/R or (shorten course), Flag M
32 know the correct flags and signals (visual and sound)
33 signal Postponement or abandonment.
34 display the correct signal within 30 seconds of the instruction.

These guys are the real BIMBOs.

Re: A tip for race committee [Re: mbounds] #194729
10/27/09 09:29 PM
10/27/09 09:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
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Northfield Mn
At least they aren't tramps laugh
Trained
Race
Approved
Mark
Placers

Re: A tip for race committee [Re: Karl_Brogger] #194823
10/28/09 03:23 PM
10/28/09 03:23 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
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brucat Offline
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Posts: 3,969
The first thing we need is a BIMBO website... wink

There was an excellent seminar run here in 2007, in advance of the Olympic / Paralympic Trials in Newport. Lots of guys who had been running mark boats for years all came away saying that they learned a ton.

One of the most useful things was an exercise where they were all given handheld VHF radios and handheld GPS units, and were set free on a huge grass field to check the wind, set a "course" and do change marks, etc.

"Psychology" Matt? Please explain.

Mike

Re: A tip for race committee [Re: brucat] #194836
10/28/09 03:56 PM
10/28/09 03:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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I tried a web search for BIMBO, but my security blocked them. Why is that? The IT guys don't want us setting up proper race courses?

poo


Jay

Re: A tip for race committee [Re: waterbug_wpb] #194842
10/28/09 04:48 PM
10/28/09 04:48 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
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brucat Offline
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Same reason I don't open SA anymore... between the pics and the language, the IT police would have a field day...

Re: A tip for race committee [Re: brucat] #194850
10/28/09 05:25 PM
10/28/09 05:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
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Detroit, MI
Originally Posted by brucat
"Psychology" Matt? Please explain.


These are the bullet points on the Psychology slide:

Think Like a Competitor
Will my actions make the race more fair?
Will my actions confuse the competitors?
Will I be interfering with the race?

Think Like a PRO
Anticipate actions – be ready when the call comes
Feed important information – filter out the clutter
Watch the race and learn from the competitors

Think Like a B.I.M.B.O.
Take pride in your work
Be a responsible member of the RC Team
HAVE FUN!

Then I have a "You Make the Call" slide (like they do at the Race Management seminars) - "Team Players That Aren't"

It's only a 15 minute segment of an 8 hour session.

Re: A tip for race committee [Re: mbounds] #194884
10/29/09 10:28 AM
10/29/09 10:28 AM
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Posts: 3,969
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brucat Offline
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OK, that makes total sense. I tend to think of that as philosophy, such as, "Why are we all here?" Either way, they are definitely all good points that need to be covered.

"Team Players That Aren't" Is that a slide show with pictures, or just a list of scenarios? Is it RC-specific, or general coaching? Can you share it with us?

My personal favorite is a little story that involved two weather marks, two change marks (all in the water at the same time), in the fog, and the mark boat guys were observed eating lunch... We'll protect the name of the event, but that was a pretty impressive example of what not to do.

Mike

Re: A tip for race committee [Re: brucat] #194896
10/29/09 11:31 AM
10/29/09 11:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
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Detroit, MI
Originally Posted by brucat
OK, that makes total sense. I tend to think of that as philosophy, such as, "Why are we all here?" Either way, they are definitely all good points that need to be covered.

"Team Players That Aren't" Is that a slide show with pictures, or just a list of scenarios? Is it RC-specific, or general coaching? Can you share it with us?

My personal favorite is a little story that involved two weather marks, two change marks (all in the water at the same time), in the fog, and the mark boat guys were observed eating lunch... We'll protect the name of the event, but that was a pretty impressive example of what not to do.

Mike


I cover the "Why are we all here?" question in the very beginning. The "Psychology" slide is one of the last. The "Team Players That Aren't" slide is a single scenario:

You Make the Call
You are the pin / gate boat.

The weather mark boat is in position, but the mark has not
been set, and you’re in a start sequence.

The fleet starts and the PRO radios for the weather mark
drop. There is no response and the weather mark boat is still
moving with the mark. Repeated radio calls to the weather
mark have no result.

The fleet is now 1/3 of the way up the course, and the
weather mark is still not set.

What do you do?

Re: A tip for race committee [Re: mbounds] #194898
10/29/09 11:41 AM
10/29/09 11:41 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
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ThunderMuffin Offline
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Quote
What do you do?


Full throttle at them with arms waving yelling "**** turn on your radio!"

Then make your way back to the committee boat and ask them why they started a sequence with the A mark not set.

Basically

Blame everyone but yourself.

Re: A tip for race committee [Re: ThunderMuffin] #194902
10/29/09 12:03 PM
10/29/09 12:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
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Abandon. It is not a fair race. Sort out communication, pin boat rounds up the fleet. Get 'em off as quick as you can AFTER A-pin in on-line and mark is set.

I never go into sequence until A-pin is hooked and the line is set, in that order. Everything else can follow.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: A tip for race committee [Re: John Williams] #194903
10/29/09 12:20 PM
10/29/09 12:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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Clermont, FL, USA
Originally Posted by John Williams
Abandon. It is not a fair race. Sort out communication, pin boat rounds up the fleet. Get 'em off as quick as you can AFTER A-pin in on-line and mark is set.

I never go into sequence until A-pin is hooked and the line is set, in that order. Everything else can follow.


+1


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: A tip for race committee [Re: John Williams] #194907
10/29/09 12:38 PM
10/29/09 12:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
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Detroit, MI
There is no rule that requires any mark but the pin to be in the water at the starting signal.

When I'm the race officer & the wind is particularly shifty, I'll get the weather mark boat in position, ready to drop. Then wait until there's less than two minutes remaining on the sequence before splashing the weather mark. Is it risky? A bit. Does it make the more fair? Probably. Does it save waiting time between races? You betcha.

I wouldn't consider abandoning until the competitors are reaching the laylines. Even then, if the mark is visible and not moving significantly, (like if the mark boat had wrapped the anchor line on the prop), I'd think real hard about abandoning the race. There are things you can do that will salvage the race, keep it fair and not confuse the competitors. (Anchor the mark boat and put the mark in the boat so it's very visible, put up the "M" flag and blow horns.)

In this particular case, the weather mark boat driver and his helper (wife) were very experienced sailors and were playing a passive-aggressive game with me - just to piss me off (it worked). The pin/gate boat boogied upwind - the WM boat radio magically started working when they got within a couple hundred yards and the mark had gone into the water as soon as they saw the pin boat heading to them. I don't think the competitors noticed it, since they had't gotten to the laylines yet.

My solution was to put a third person on the WM boat that I trusted to keep them from screwing with me.

BTW, this happens more often than you realize (both the late drop on the WM and passive-aggressive BS from mark boat operators).

Last edited by mbounds; 10/29/09 12:53 PM.
Re: A tip for race committee [Re: mbounds] #194908
10/29/09 12:48 PM
10/29/09 12:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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It was a trick question. I still would have done a do over with the information initially provided. It almost never sits well with the fleet if the mark is a moving target even if the 'M' flag is flying and the horn is being blown but, that's just me. On the other hand I've seen an LOT of whining when a mark is moved and it's done by the book due to a wind shift.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: A tip for race committee [Re: mbounds] #194909
10/29/09 12:55 PM
10/29/09 12:55 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
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If the weather mark is on the move when the fleet is 1/3 up the leg on a shifty course, I would be wearing my competitor hat and blow it off. In oscillating shifts, you can split the difference and have a mark set before the gun. I try to give the fleet what I would want - a line that is correct for the conditions, and a plan for the first beat. If the mark is still in the boat at the start, planning for anything past starting is tougher. At ABYC, we post the heading to A-pin at the same time we post the course... I understand when those things are required to happen, but I like to be just a bit ahead of that (e.g., like a minute).

I've never had the situation you describe - mutiny in the RC?? Yikes.

Ain't race management FUN!?


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: A tip for race committee [Re: David Ingram] #194910
10/29/09 12:58 PM
10/29/09 12:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
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mbounds  Offline
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Detroit, MI
It's not a trick question - there's no one right answer. Abandoning is certainly a correct course of action - but is it the best? It's meant to stimulate discussion.

I'd rather abandon after it's obvious that the situation has become unfair - not when it will potentially be unfair.

Re: A tip for race committee [Re: mbounds] #194917
10/29/09 01:17 PM
10/29/09 01:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Matt, speaking as a competitor only, how is it "more fair" if the weather mark is not SET at least a few minutes prior to the start? I spend part of my pre start time looking up the course to the weather mark to determine things like, which side of the course do I want, which end of the line do I want to get there, what phase will the wind-shfts be in when the start happens, etc. If the mark is not set, what's the point? And it really turns it into a crap shoot for the racers who are trying to figure that out and get a good start.

I know I would be a little bit more than pissed off if I picked one side based on where the mark boat was, got a good start, only to see the weather mark boat moving the other way, AFTER the start.

I think it makes it -less fair- if the mark is not set prior to the start.


Blade F16
#777
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