Thank you so much. I would just like to see the boat numbers at wave regattas grow. It is such a diverse boat and very accepting from beginner to advanced. Not the fastest or most advanced but one with many advantages. One of the great things about it is the close racing. Last year at Nationals there were 14 boats fighting to get around C mark at the same time. That is three legs into a five leg race. I know this because I was boat #14 The Masters bring so much knowledge and you cannot help but learn how to be a better sailor. This is why I think it would be an excellent boat for beginners.
Looking forward to seeing what will happen in the future, enjoying the present, and would like to use this platform to personally thank Rick White for starting this class. No matter what happens between IWCA and HCA he took a boat, made a class, brought it to my back door and got me into racing catamarans. I will always be grateful for that because it is my passion. I know sailors from IWCA, HCA, and even Hobie Corp. share this passion. My hope is that we can all sail together somehow and you have my support and help to make it happen.
Patrick.. BlackCat Racing. Hobie wave #11

Patrick wasn't present when the IWCA was started. And believe me, it was not Rick White that started the class.
Actually, it was more like Dan and Kathy Kulkoski, Chip and Barb Short, Bob Curry, and several others.
They just asked if I would be the "Puppet" and they would do everything.
That group is still very active in the class, but I guess I outgrew my puppethood, took the strings and started running on my own.., sort of like Pinochio, except I try not to tell lies. My nose has not grown much over the past years.
And now I really believe we have the most active class in the country.., and growing.
Thanks to folks like Patrick and Skip Kaub, Stan Woodruff, Jack Woehrle, Steve Abbey, Mark Scarpelli, Scot Hubel, Jon Britt, and whole host of others that have stepped up and have helped the class grow.

At any rate, I wanted to be sure you understood that this is not "Rick's Class" as Matt Bounds like to profess. I am merely a puppet for a group that really loves to sail competitively and inexpensively.
Rick

"Patrick wasn't present when the IWCA was started. And believe me, it was not Rick White that started the class.
Actually, it was more like Dan and Kathy Kulkoski, Chip and Barb Short, Bob Curry, and several others.
Thanks to folks like Patrick and Skip Kaub, Stan Woodruff, Jack Woehrle, Steve Abbey, Mark Scarpelli, Scot Hubel, Jon Britt, Betty and Dick Bliss, and whole host of others that have stepped up and have helped the class grow".

Sorry for misunderstanding Rick and did not mean to mud things up. I was not there when it started and do not know the full history of how it began. I am no less thankful for all the people listed and the many who are not. It was Rick and Mary whom I raced with for the very first time on that hot windless day in the Bay and afterward drinking a cold beer with them I thought this is what I want to pursue. I then talk a friend into it (was not hard) and he invited a friend and so on. Which brings me back to the point of, if we can find a way in which to bring the IWCA and HCA and Hobie Corp. together all of the aft mention people and many new will benefit.
I am going to shut up now and go enjoy and be thankful with my family this weekend.

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone. Eat lots so I can have a weight advantage.

This is why the Wave is the perfect boat or second boat.

Patrick started without any baggage and shortly was kickn' butt. The wiley old timers struggle in spite of "age and trechery".

It is the perfect "first" boat and the perfect "last" boat at the same time.

Amen, and another thing to be thankful for tomorrow.
Rick

I have heard people mention rudders before, but I don't know of any Waves that do not use stock Hobie rudders and rudder systems.

I was referring to the use of the racing rudders or EPO2s instead of the stock ones.

Aren't those made by Hobie Cat Company??

They are, but they aren't "stock". They also cannot be used with the newer EZ-Loc rudder system that comes on the current Waves.

Right, but most Wave racers use the original rudder system; and I assume that if Hobie Cat Company makes and sells EPO rudders, they intend for people to buy and use them. Or is that something that HCA does not allow?

The inconsistant part of this is that HCA/HCC allow the EPOs on all of the Hobie racing classes except the Waves.

The EPOs fit perfectly in the older housings which are the same as H17, 18, 20. In fact, I think they could be notched to fit the easy-lock system without too much trouble.

The reason I converted was that both of the plastic rudders that came with my Wave were hooked to the right. The boat had weather helm on one tack and lee helm on the other. EPOs corrected that.

It defies logic that there is a different rule for Waves than the other Hobies.

The language in the IHCA rules for all the boats (with the exception of the 14 and 16) states:


So . . . technically, EPO's are not allowed on the 17 and 18, either, although every racer I know uses them.

And modifying them to fit the EZ-Loc system isn't legal either.

(The 14 and 16 have allowed aftermarket rudders since the early '70s, when racers demanded a better blade than the ABS ones originally produced for the 14.)

The EPO rudders I am presently using were sold to me "stock" on my old Hobie 18. The 18 is gone, but the EPO rudders stayed and are proudly on my Wave. So, my Wave must be STOCK since they were sold with a Hobie boat.

Considering these crazy rules that favor the 16 (and one might note that all the rules for all the classes are determined at the National Meeting, held during the H16 Nationals -- perhaps the reason for the demise of the TheMightyHobie18, once my favorite boat) you are referring to Matt, good heavens, isn't it obvious why the IWCA is where it is.

Matt,

Let's make sure we are comparing "apples to apples" ... "oranges to oranges".

My 1984' H18SE was purchased from the factory and sold to me by my local dealer w/ "black" "EPO" rudders .... so I believe my rudder blades are "class legal".

Are you refering to the new "EPOV2" blades that are currently availible from Hobie???

Also note the origonal date of my TheMightyHobie18's manufacture ... that means my boat came from the factory w/ the "old" TheMightyHobie18 Rudder Assmblies. The rudder assemblies where "updated" under the Hobie Cat Co's program of installing a "new" H17/TheMightyHobie18 retro-fit kit in 1987-88 ..... and that is considered "class legal". And how about the H16 Rudder Assemblies and guegeons ...... they are not the same as origonally supplied in the 1970's are they?????

After the stock of "origonal" EPO's was depleted, the rudders next supplied as origonal equipment/replacement parts were ..... (there is no "polite" way to say this) PURE JUNK!!!! the white ones ... the black plastic ones .... JUNK, JUNK, JUNK!!!!!

Let's review the language in Rules 1.1 and 1.2 as you maybe defining the rule alittle to tightly .... IMHO

1.1: Rudder Blades and assemblies shall be stock as supplied by Hobie Cat Co. Hmmmmmmmmm ..... Are not the rudder casings and rudder blades purchsed through and supplied by "Hobie Cat Co"???? There is no mention in the rule: of as supplied "origonally" on the boat when sold by Hobie Cat Co.

1.2: Hobie Cat Co rudder assemblies and blades shall not be modified except minimum filing to improve fit and function. .... Hmmmmmmm .... Who gets to define "minimum" ... are there any "minimum" measurements/dimensions defined????? As I read that rule I'm allowed to fit or improve function of any blade or assembly (as supplied by Hobie Cat Co) w/ a minimum of filing. I would additionally argue that each installation is unique due to the variations due to "Mass-Production" techniques used by the Hobie Cat Co, therefore the "Minimum" filing requiered varies from boat to boat.

So what course of action would you recommend since: the origonal EPO's are no longer availible, the plastic rudder blades are un-acceptable because of performance issues, and class rules effectively outlaw the use of "EPOV2's on H17's, TheMightyHobie18's and Waves in your opinion ..... but are OK for use on H16'???

Harry Murphey

PS: You have an E-Mail in your Inbox from Div11 Yahoo Group ..... Key Words are: ... Div11 Youth Sailors ... RHYC ... invited ... Junior Olympics ... July 9-11th, 2010. !!!!!PLEASE READ!!!!!

It should also be in Chris's Inbox ....

We have some work to do .....

Rick,

The National HCA Meeting is not always held at the H16NA's .... the large majority over the years have been ... but not always. For example, this year it was just held at the "HavaMega" two weeks ago. .... where they tried to discuss the issue of all F18's being allowed to attend "Hobie Regatta's" as proposed by Rob Jerry to compete w/ the Tigers and Wildcats thereby increasing the number of F18 competitors .... I believe it's still under discussion ...


Harry Murphey

The Hobie Class rules are not determined by the HCA-NA at all - certainly not at our AGM.

The 14, 16, 17, 18 and Tiger are ISAF International Classes. ISAF has the final say on any rule changes.

The HCA-NA may recommend a rule change.
It then goes to the IHCA Rules Committee (made up of 1 representative of HCC-USA, 1 from Hobie Cat Europe, 1 Alter Family rep (currently Jeff Alter), and two at-large members (Mal Gray from AUS and Erik Olsen from DEN)

The Rules Committee will publish the proposed wording for comment. After receiving comments, the Rules Committee will pass their recommendation (approve / disapprove) to the IHCA Council.

The IHCA Council will vote on the proposed change.

If approved, the change will be recommended to ISAF, who has final say on the International Classes.

As I mentioned before, the 14 and 16 have different rudder rules than all the other classes.

It was not "preferential treatment" for the 14 and 16. It was because the original ABS rudders, made for the 14, proved inadequate for the stress of the 16's platform. Therefore, the rules were changed in the early '70s (before any of the other Hobie Cats were introduced) to allow aftermarket rudders:


If you look at the any of the 30 or so definitions of "stock", none of them really covers what the word means in the context of the rules for all the other boats.

Does it mean "supplied originally with the boat"? or "supplied by Hobie Cat Company [out of their stock]"?

It's a poorly worded rule.

The question wasn't directed to me but the answer is simple. Send a request for a rule change to the HCA Chair. Make sure you have the support of your class first. If it's on the up and up (fairly simple in this case) the Chair will forward your request to the IHCA rules committee who will deal with your request.

The Hobie 20 guys did it a few years ago and can now choose between the stock Hobie 20 rudder and an EPO 2.

I’m sure the intent for all the rules has always been that parts and equipment are class specific. You can’t put an 18 rig on a 16, even though they are both factory supplied items. In fact, there are certain items that they factory supplies for a particular class as a option that are not class legal for racing, such as jib batten hinges.

So…I agree with Matt that in the strictest sense, unless the class rules specifically address an item, it is not permitted. In the case of the H14 and H16 rudders, there is a written rule.

The H17, 18, 20 and Wave would not, in my mind be permitted to use any rudder that was never supplied by the factory for that particular model. The H20s have that letter but I think it is only an opinion, not actually a rule.

However, at this point in time, if the H17, 18 and 20s have been using the EPOs without protest, then you can make the assumption that there has been de facto acceptance without a written rule.

Carrying this to the same conclusion, I think we are on solid ground to do the same with the Waves.

We all agree that the rule is poorly written.

To deny Waves the same treatment as the H17, 18 and 20 might bring down a house of cards that I’m sure no one wants to see happen.

Clearly, an across the board written rule revision to address this oversight is the best long range solution. The 14/16 definition would make the most sense since all these boats use the exact same rudder shape and size. Only the materials are different. In the meantime actual precedent says that racers of all stripes are using the EPOs and we should agree to leave it at that until such a change comes to be.

I think it was cw (last Winter) that brought up the idea of a proposal to "allow" glass rudders on the Wave.

Here's my take on this proposal. We talk to a newbie sailor, invite him to a regatta, he shows up with his spanking new boat and EZ Lock rudders. He rolls around the course for the weekend and finishes last. To be expected say you? Just needs more experience, a few more races under the belt? Here's the rub (and I'd almost GUARANTEE it will happen), somebody's going to walk up to him and say
"You know...If you want to be competitive on that boat...you're going to need 18 rudder castings and some EPO's"
"Yeah? How much that gonna cost?"
"New? 'bout $800"

True or not, this guy may never come back.

Same frickin' thing that will happen to the newbie with his '85 H16 he just picked up for $900. After he rolls around finishing last some joker's going to make a point of walking up and saying
"You know, the rules require you to have a comp-tip on your mast"
"Yeah? How much that gonna cost?"