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The Man Shed News #204588
03/01/10 03:33 AM
03/01/10 03:33 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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TheManShed  Offline OP
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Palm Beach County
There was action around The Man Shed today. Caught a slight break in the weather it was in the mid 60ís today but chilly tonight. Got the crew together and laid up the port side of the main hull. It may take a few days to fully cure so I'll go back to working on the connecting beam jig. I tried several methods of covering the frames. Looks like I'm going to fill the gaps with foam and fare it down. I could not get bendy plywood or 1/8" foam to wrap around the sharp radius of the ends. If the jig looks long it is. The beams will be 17 feet long the jig is 18 feet long. With the second half of the main hull laminated Iíll have plenty to do now. I'm also thinking of making curved boards that's still on the sketching pad - but I have a plan.

Attached Files
Cutting Cloth.JPG (389 downloads)
Cutting carbon
Bagged.JPG (386 downloads)
Bagged out
Jig.JPG (385 downloads)
Connecting beam jig

Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: The Man Shed News [Re: TheManShed] #204593
03/01/10 06:24 AM
03/01/10 06:24 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 757
japan
erice Offline
old hand
erice  Offline
old hand
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Posts: 757
japan
imho

get the #1 boat going with standard boards first before going for banana boards

tri's find it hard enough to go to weather well without having curved boards as well

if you start tweaking without having 1st established a base line you'll have too many variables


eric e
1982 nacra 5.2 - 2158
2009 weta tri - 294
Re: The Man Shed News [Re: erice] #204598
03/01/10 07:49 AM
03/01/10 07:49 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,296
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 12,296
South Carolina
you could also build the trunks like the latest a-cats - they can accomodate straight or curved boards. The top and bottoms of the hull are shapped to the board profile. The trunks inside the hull are simply big and flat with plenty of free play.


Jake Kohl
Re: The Man Shed News [Re: erice] #204600
03/01/10 08:43 AM
03/01/10 08:43 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203
uk
TEAMVMG Offline
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uk
The structure of the beams needs to take into account the possibility of banana boards.

Righting moment is the same as straight boards/no boards, but loadings are different.


Paul

teamvmg.weebly.com
Re: The Man Shed News [Re: TEAMVMG] #204602
03/01/10 09:02 AM
03/01/10 09:02 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 149
T
TurboCat Offline
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Looking good Mike!

Re: The Man Shed News [Re: Jake] #204605
03/01/10 09:11 AM
03/01/10 09:11 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,221
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
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Posts: 3,221
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Originally Posted by Jake
you could also build the trunks like the latest a-cats - they can accomodate straight or curved boards. The top and bottoms of the hull are shapped to the board profile. The trunks inside the hull are simply big and flat with plenty of free play.

So like a box that you exchange the top and bottom on(permanently), depending on the board?
Keep at it Mike.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: The Man Shed News [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #204609
03/01/10 09:30 AM
03/01/10 09:30 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,296
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,296
South Carolina
Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
Originally Posted by Jake
you could also build the trunks like the latest a-cats - they can accomodate straight or curved boards. The top and bottoms of the hull are shapped to the board profile. The trunks inside the hull are simply big and flat with plenty of free play.

So like a box that you exchange the top and bottom on(permanently), depending on the board?
Keep at it Mike.


Nope - you don't change anything as long as the foil cross sectional shape is the very similar between the straight board and the curved board. The deck and hull bottom openings are thin so they don't interfere with either board shape as it goes through the opening. The trunk is fat enough to contain the curvature of the banana board and the upper / bottom openings hold it just the same.


Jake Kohl
Re: The Man Shed News [Re: Jake] #204611
03/01/10 09:45 AM
03/01/10 09:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
I wonder how they keep the box from flooding. I can't keep my box from flooding. Anyone else have problems with flooded boxes?

Re: The Man Shed News [Re: ThunderMuffin] #204630
03/01/10 03:25 PM
03/01/10 03:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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TheManShed  Offline OP
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Palm Beach County
Jake,
That gives me an idea the trunk could be D shaped also.


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: The Man Shed News [Re: ThunderMuffin] #204631
03/01/10 03:27 PM
03/01/10 03:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,305
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
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Luiz  Offline
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Asuncion, Paraguay
Originally Posted by Undecided
I wonder how they keep the box from flooding. I can't keep my box from flooding. Anyone else have problems with flooded boxes?


No, but my plans for the future might include this problem smile , so I'm also interested in a method to keep a fat board box from flooding.


Luiz
Re: The Man Shed News [Re: Luiz] #204648
03/01/10 08:29 PM
03/01/10 08:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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TheManShed  Offline OP
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Palm Beach County
Using the fat box what support the side of the board is that not important? I know the front and back load up but isn't there side loads on the boards? Does anybody know what brands of A-cats use these types of boards I'd like to check it out?


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: The Man Shed News [Re: TheManShed] #204649
03/01/10 08:54 PM
03/01/10 08:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,296
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,296
South Carolina
Originally Posted by TheManShed
Using the fat box what support the side of the board is that not important? I know the front and back load up but isn't there side loads on the boards? Does anybody know what brands of A-cats use these types of boards I'd like to check it out?


The boards, even on most typical beach cat with straight boards, are only supported by the deck opening and the hull bottom opening. The daggerboard trunks usually slip outside formed and sized openings for the daggerboard and don't normally provide any support for the board (some are even paper thin and pretty much there just keep the water out - like on the nacra 6.0).

The new (v5) Geltek Flyer and I think the latest EVO has the capability of running either straight or curved boards.


Jake Kohl
Re: The Man Shed News [Re: ThunderMuffin] #204651
03/01/10 09:14 PM
03/01/10 09:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
arbo06 Offline
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Pooh-Bah
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South Florida & the Keys
Are we still talking about dagger boxes? Just askin'.


Eric Arbogast
ARC 2101
Miami Yacht Club
Re: The Man Shed News [Re: Jake] #204652
03/01/10 09:28 PM
03/01/10 09:28 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,305
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
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Luiz  Offline
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Asuncion, Paraguay
Originally Posted by Jake
The boards ...are only supported by the deck opening and the hull bottom opening.
The new (v5) Geltek Flyer and I think the latest EVO has the capability of running either straight or curved boards.


How do they keep the water out of the fat part of the box?

I'm afraid there's no curved board to be found in a 5000 miles radius around where I am...


Luiz
Re: The Man Shed News [Re: Luiz] #204677
03/02/10 12:11 PM
03/02/10 12:11 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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TheManShed  Offline OP
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Palm Beach County
Hi Eric yep we got off to dagger boards.


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: The Man Shed News [Re: TheManShed] #204696
03/02/10 06:56 PM
03/02/10 06:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 305
toronto, canada
B
basket.case Offline
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basket.case  Offline
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B
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 305
toronto, canada
mike, you should really consider using a perforated film with your lay ups.

Re: The Man Shed News [Re: basket.case] #204762
03/03/10 11:24 AM
03/03/10 11:24 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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TheManShed  Offline OP
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Palm Beach County
You must be looking at the last posting on my website. My supplier shorted me on the peel ply I ordered and paid for 7yrds and he delivered 5yrds. I had to make due with 3M masking film in a pinch to make up the difference. I did not know I was shorted until we had already done the lay-up and putting on the peel ply. I was pissed but in these circumstances you have to be flexible and do a work around when you have thousands of dollars of materials that could be wasted. The 3M film works for smaller areas but was not really ideal for this lay-up, Iím glad I had it available.


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: The Man Shed News [Re: TheManShed] #204816
03/03/10 08:25 PM
03/03/10 08:25 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 305
toronto, canada
B
basket.case Offline
enthusiast
basket.case  Offline
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B
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 305
toronto, canada
nah, the perf film is applied between the peel ply and the bleeder. it limits how much resin is pulled out and also, as a side note, makes separating the bleeder and laminate a hell of a lot easier.

Re: The Man Shed News [Re: basket.case] #204817
03/03/10 08:37 PM
03/03/10 08:37 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 805
Gainesville, FL 32607 USA
dacarls Offline
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dacarls  Offline
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Gainesville, FL 32607 USA
Bimare sells DB wells for both straight and curved boards for A-class cats. I never have seen one. Please talk about how you plan to make curved boards, as several profiles are presently used/sold-- depending.

Also- I made my own perforated PE painters dropcloth- left it folded up and put a zillion little holes in it. Worked fine.


Dacarls:
A-class USA 196, USA 21, H18, H16
"Nothing that's any good works by itself. You got to make the damn thing work"- Thomas Edison
Re: The Man Shed News [Re: basket.case] #204824
03/04/10 12:32 AM
03/04/10 12:32 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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TheManShed  Offline OP
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Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
Perf film - I made one up once from 4 mil plastic but never used it. I may give it go next time removing peel ply and bleeder cloth is like skinning a live gorilla. I've not had a problem with too dry of a lay-up without it.

Boards - I was thinking of makng the boards from the plans I have on the half - straight from just foam as they are not that large 2" thick at the thickest point and 12" wide. So I'd be working with 1" X 12" X 5' and bending it to a curve on a jig. Then matching the other side to the curve and glassing to the first half. If that works glassing the outside it to make a plug for a mold.

I have not seen any profiles presently used/sold any information on that?

Mike


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

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