One of the most enlightening sections of the rulebook is the "Definitions". It's only 3 pages long and at the end of the rulebook. I recommend it as a good read. In particular:

Reconstructing an incident from photographs can be problematic, as angle-of-view and foreshortening create perspective problems. From this single picture, it looks to me like:

1. Judging by the wake of the boat, and the position of the crew and sails, I would surmise that shortly before the picture was taken, the J80 (the spinnaker boat) (A) was sailing hot downwind on starboard tack. The boat sailing upwind (B) was on a beat to windward on port tack.
2. Just before the picture was taken, A turned downwind, and moved (I don't want to use the term "gybed" here) her spinnaker to the port side. Why she did so is a matter of pure speculation. Perhaps she wanted to cross boat B, or perhaps she is heading for the motor yacht at the left edge of the photograph (it might be a finish mark although it appears to be under way).
3. At the instant shown, A is sailing by the lee. Note that one of the crew is holding the boom forward to keep it from gybing. That keeps A on starboard tack thus preserving her right-of-way. I would guess that he will let the boom go after the boats cross.
4. Note that both boats have a crewmember in a good position to watch the other. A has someone on the leeward side (probably trimming the spinsheet) and B's mastman (likely the tactician) appears to be calling instructions to the driver.
5. From the relative sizes of the people on the boats, I'd guess there's several boatlengths separation and A will cross easily.
6. All in all, I think both boats are aware of each other, have assessed the situation in advance, and are well under control. This looks like a safe crossing to me.

I hope that helps,
Eric

Not that we go dead downwind much but how would that be interpreted? If a protest committee saw a pic of a boat with it's boom hanging over the port side, even if it was by the lee, I'd think they'd have a hard time saying it wasn't on starboard.

The only thing that leads me to doubt your conclusion of a safe crossing Eric is that the helm on A is hard over, pushing the boat to windward of B.

Not quite correct. There is a rule called "WHILE TACKING" (13), but not one called "WHILE GYBING". From the perspective of the rules, gybing occurs when your mainsail crosses the centerline of the boat and is considered pretty much an instantaneous event. The downwind boat shown appears to be changing course (see rule 16) but is still on starboard tack and is still the right-of-way boat.

Regards,
Eric

Thank You Eric and Matt for answering my question.

I will mentally change my defination of indicated tack from the boom's location to using the leeward definition/mainsail location ....

(I remember the "old days" were you could quickly change tack from port to starboard by grabbing the boom and holding it over past the boat's centerline ... there were lots of protests because of it!!!!)

Harry

I'm really sorry to hear that and I hope you'll reconsider. I enjoy sailing both one-design and in mixed fleets and have no problem sharing a racecourse with disparate boats (even mixing mono and multihulls). The water belongs equally to us all.

I think if boats refuse to sail together, we'll simply divide up our fleets until none of them are big enough to continue. Then there'll be no racing at all. Sailing is not a large enough sport (at least anywhere I've gone) to be exclusionary.

Sincerely,
Eric

His rudder looks straight on centerline to me. Since we all see different things in the picture, perhaps this is a good example of why photographic evidence is suspect in a protest.

Regards,
Eric

I am aware of that - my statement was unclear as to the timing. To be perfectly clear, I should have said something to the effect that he would be the GW boat after completing the jibe.

Unfortunately the forum resized the photo.
Here's a close up of the original.

The tiller is in the driver's lap and he's trying to "head up".

Wow...

I've attended too many seminars (rules, RC, judging), and the more times I attend, the more I learn: (1) How to learn and (2) How to use the rule book (not as a weapon, but a tool). In my experience, the definitions should actually be in the front of the book, they are so important.

Taking everything else aside for a minute, the most disturbing thing about this thread remains the number of posts where people are unsure of the rules, and are not willing to look them up (I alluded to this in an earlier post). If you're not willing to do it now (and clearly don't know the rules), how do you manage this in a race?

I have a great idea on how to fix this. We should have a rules quiz at every regatta (open book), including common situations such as those listed here (there haven't been any "tricky" situations given here), and rank the sailors based on their quiz score, and count that as Race #1. In a perfect world, everyone would be tied with a bullet before touching the water.

Mike

Open book... I'm in.

I don't recall anybody claming nothing ever goes wrong. I'm just saying that you are responsible for your own boathandling, not everybody else.

And I'm saying that safety is everybody's responsibility, not just of boats going upwind. No matter what direction you are sailing, and no matter what sails you are using, you are expected to (1) watch where you are going, and (2) keep control of your boat.

Ok, let's take me out of the picture. Imagine the following scenerio:

In this example, a boat sailing downwind under spinnaker (D) has right-of-way over a boat sailing upwind (U). Both are "modern spin cats" sailing one-design (or formula) in the same class on a closed course with no non-spin boats present. The wind is blowing 20kts.

1. Boat D has rounded the windward mark, set her chute, and is now sailing downwind on starboard tack "on the ragged edge of control".
2. Boat U is still sailing upwind, on port tack, below the layline.
3. The two boats approach each other at 25kts+ closure rate. If both boats maintain the course they are sailing, D will pass 2 boatlengths to windward of U.
4. D doesn't see U behind her spinnaker. U sees D and loudly hails "Hold your course!" when they are 15 boatlengths apart.
5. When the boats are 4 boatlengths apart, a gust hits and D bears away hard.
6. U immediately steers away, but one second later, the boats collide. Both boats are destroyed. One of the sailors on Boat U is impaled on D's spinnaker pole.

Now I ask you, which boat was unsafe? Boat U, who kept a lookout, and acted to avoid contact when she was the give-way boat, or Boat D, who did not watch for other boats, and could not maintain her course in a puff when she was the right-of-way boat?

If another boat is in your escape lane, and you turn down onto him in a puff, how is he supposed to avoid you? You are the one moving fast, and the one changing course in the gusts. Even if you have right-of-way, you aren't giving him room to keep clear. If that's your approach to sailing, then I have to agree - a collision is inevitable.

Sincerely,
Eric

Eric hits some important points here (others have also mentioned this).

Putting the non-spin boats into this discussion is ultimately a red herring. True, some of those sailors may not appreciate the exit strategy for a spin boat, but that does not really matter. A spin boat going upwind is going to have the same difficulty getting out of the the way of a boat that isn't in control.

In the interest of safety, perhaps we should have some discussion at mixed-class regattas to let everyone be aware of the "limitations" of spin boats (can't hurt). Of course, you are still obliged not to change course without giving the other boat the ability to keep clear. Which means, you're opening yourself up to a larger window in which an upwind boat can say in a hearing, "Hey, spin dude never saw me, so I needed to give him extra room in case he got hit by a puff. I started avoiding well before he could hear my hail, DSQ him now please."

Mike

Good for you! You took action to avoid contact which was the right thing to do. Did you protest?

I'm sailing a 40 year old design but I don't see how that's germaine.

Absolutely. When boats meet, both must avoid contact if reasonably possible. There's already a rule for that, #14. When one or both of the boats fail to do so, how will changing other rules correct that? What is the purpose of reassigning right-of-way other than to be "dead right"?

Regards,
Eric

Just as a side note:

In Div11 Mr Geoff Becker has held/hosted several Racing Rules Seminar at Hobie Regattas, at no charge I may add, on Saturday night after the dinners ..... it is always standing room only w/ some "novice" sailor such as Wally Meyers, Rich McViegh, Randy Payne and many others w/ just a wee bit of racing experience attending ... and if Goeff's schedule allows it he will be hosting a RRS seminar at the Junior Olympics Regatta being held at RHYC in July!!!!

So quess were I'll be when Geoff hosts this seminar ... oh please note that I've already been to (3) RRS seminars + (2) Basic Race Management Seminar in the last two years alone .... and I always still learn something everytime!!!!

Mr Mike/Brucat .... you are quite correct ....

Harry

Absolutely. I learn new things about the rules all the time.

I agree with you there too.

I've participated in, and run a few "barstool regattas" like this. It's usually more fun in teams. Each team gets a toy boat. There are a series of rules qestions and each time a team gets one right, their boat advances. The team that makes it to the finish line first wins. Ties are good.

Regards,
Eric

[/quote]I'm sailing a 40 year old design but I don't see how that's germaine.


The Germans aint got nothing to do with this.

with great power comes great responsibility

Spin boats have a greater demand on your abilities, so keep that in mind when operating it.

That photo looked ugly. Yes, the upwind boat has more options, and it's every sailor's duty to avoid a collision. They can do whatever they want and protest if they wish. Hitting the boat should not be an option to consider... No race that many of us sail in is worth that kind of damage/injury...

PGP you state you wont share a course with non spin boats. So let me ask you, do you intend on racing at GYC? You know we always share the course with A catters.

If you know the rules you will avoid a dangerous situation.
If you know the sailor you will avoid a dangerous situation.

My two cents:
1. Know your rules.
2. Know your competition.

Knowledge is your best weapon.

GYC is an exception. It's a small fleet, I know most of the sailors.