(1). BP this is a company with absolutely unlimited resources. This company makes so much money that they could buy a small country. Y is it that they have not trained for something like this? You know you’re drilling at 5000’ so I think you should know how to stop a leak at 5000’ before you should be able to start drilling!! A company this large should be able to have stopped this leek in a few days not a few months. In my opinion it’s pathetic that BP is failing so hard to stop this leek. Win all they had to do was be prepared for something to happen before it happens. Training is key!!!

(2) The press. The press is ridicules all they do is report all the bad stuff. I run one of the parasail boats out on the beach. All day yester day we had people telling us that they were close to cancelling their trips to Pensacola and moving to other places. Because the news was talking about how bad it is!!! Then they get here to find it’s not that bad yet. Granted this whole thing is BP’s falt the press is playing there part in killing us as well!!!


(3) The president of the United States of America!!!
This is the weakest prez we have ever had. This man needes to stop trying to run for office! (You’re in man stop trying to make yourself look good) every time he is on TV I feel like he is trying to boost his own approval rating. that’s all he seems to care about. We need to hit BP with the hammer of Thor and put the fear of the full force of the United States government in them!!!!! Obama stop being a pussy and let them have it!!!!!!

Well, I liked his viewpoint in #3.

This thing is a clusterphuck of epic proportions and I feel for all those affected by this disaster.

How can so many people screw things up in such a royal way is beyond reality and there better be some "heads on stick" when this is done.

Your third point, what pisses me off that many of these people are the same that criticized the last president on the Katrina disaster, but yet they are no better themselves.

November is right around the corner, don't bitch - vote

bp does not have unlimited resources. the US brach has 29 billion in cash (publicly traded companies must disclose their balance sheets)

i heard the estimate of 40 billion for the clean up (obviously premature to have any idea)
this tells me they will go bankrupt before they can pay that whole tab. and i am sure their HQ (britan) would rather close the US branch than pay the entire tab.

also they had a blow out preventer. that is all that was required (as i hear it). heck they even had batteries in the blow out preventer (dead ones as i hear it).

i hear there is other hardware that could have been used, but not required and the cost (500,000) is to high... so they would rather take their chances... i doubt they feel the same way now.

Geez, do not blame Obama for anything, he does not have the reigns on this POS. BP and the rig operators are to blame, probably more the operators than BP. My issue is that I think that they could have already capped this bitch but they are trying to keep the well viable for future profit.
Eric

So you think the future value of production from this one well is worth the $90 billion in reduction of share holder value then?

I feel for you guys. Unfortunatley i cant see BP coming to the party and paying anywhere near the true cost of the spill to the people they have effected. Even if they could afford it they wont do it.

The upper management of those oil companies are dead set criminals in my opinion. They have no morals and can do what they want protected by company law and a shitload of cash.

I believe if they act like criminals destroying the planet on which we all live and worse, peoples livelihoods, then they should be treated like criminals. The CEO and a few upper management cronies of BP US should be held personally responsible. If they aren't, then nothing will change and this will happen again. Maybe Worse.

Agree Aido. In fact I'm heading up to the Great Sandy Straits tomorrow for three days of stretching out my string laminates before the B**t**ds find oil up there.
Guess I'll just have to make do with a not so stiff platform though

Ha ha, Sounds like fun!

Aido, I don't agree.
The people at the top of BP are really guys 'n gals just like you and me. Put us in their place and who says we'd have done any better? Who was it that said: "All power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely..." Well, I agree, to a large extent these peoples reactions are shaped by their powerful positions and the impossible balancing act of influences that this entails.
Just be thankful you are not in their shoes. I know I am. (thankful, that is!) Its alway so easy to "de-humanize" the enemy, but that never solves anything, it doesn't get to the root cause, which is the love of power.

What would you have had this administration done differently in response to the spill?

BP are leasing the rig in situ. Anyone bothered to find out who from? the answer is a company called Transocean - which is American. Whilst BP are responsible for the management of the drilling operation, Transocean are responsible for the supply of the rig to meet the relevant standards, which includes a working BLOW-OUT PREVENTER!
BP are manning up to the overall resposibilty for the spill, but you can bet that they will be hitting Transocean pretty hard for leasing them crappy equipment.
I've heard that Transocean have faulty BOPs on two of their other rigs
Mr President needs to stop picking on BP and take a look in his own backyard.

As much as I'd like to lump it on the President - and I will for other things - I can't fault him for staying out. I'd really like to know what exactly the government could be doing in this situation that BP isn't. I'm sure if the Feds had a panacea to this leaking well - it would have been used a long time ago regardless of whether BP had operational control or not.

What I will blame the President for is his typical knee-jerk reactionary mandate against all offshore drilling 500' or deeper. For 50 years, the drilling industry has been running a safe operation in the Gulf. One horrible mistake and now more than 100,000 jobs could be affected.

I know first hand from a friend who is consulting for an oil services company that is active in the gulf that these rigs cannot sit still for even a month - and his clients are relocating their rigs to western africa if the mandate persists.

With today's economy in the shambles that its in - can we really afford, both in terms of decreased domestic supply, and labor force, to live with this mandate?

Also - BP does not have limitless resources. It might seem like it to you - but a problem of this scale will drain even the biggest coffers. BP will be driven to bankruptcy and good luck getting any claims from them then.

i don't blame the President but i would like to see our govt do more.

What more? Well i am no expert, not even a close but why aren't there 100000 boats skimming? why aren't there 150 "straws" sucking up what is spewing out of the pipes now?

why did they give up so fast on the "cover" that froze up? we are currently pumping hot water in the straw to avoid it from freezing.. why couldn't that be done in the cover?

why are we allowing the use of dispersant? doesn't that make cleanup harder? and further toxify the gulf?

why aren't we/they/them managing the booms better (its being reported that oil filled booms are now causing more harm then good)

why aren't we trying things like hair booms? straw?

why is BP controlling the coast guard and police (if the reporting is correct)?

Remember - the Media is the most agenda=driven entity in the modern world. Just take whatever they say with a healthy dose of skepticism.

Certainly the clean up effort has been lacking incredibly.

True that mate!

I take everything i read in print and everything i hear from the media with a grain of skepticism. that is why i often add disclaimers such (if reporting is correct)

I might agree with you on that - the problem is, where do those 100,000 boats come from? Where does their skimming equipment come from? Clearly nobody really anticipated this (which is a large part of the problem). I bet the boom and dispersant manufacturing companies are working around the clock and that it's really tough to get equipment to work with (we're not hearing about that - which is odd).

Personally, I don't know what else the administration could do once the rig went down - but I'm not really excited about the public approach they have taken. Everything has just become so politically polarized that I see more effort spent on positioning and appearance than doing and getting done. I don't care to go into the who's or why's of that statement.

As far as the moratorium on offshore drilling - it needs to be in place until the safety practices and oversight can be fixed...until shear rams and safety valves and safety practices can be verified as operational. The failure of the safety policies and the oversight coupled with (IMHO) one person's bad decision making on that rig led to this. The oversight issues have been brewing for a decade or better.

"Newspapers ... serve as chimneys to carry off noxious vapors and smoke."

~Thomas Jefferson

i read somewhere that equipment is available in other countries but not being asked to be brought to the US.

Also being reported "17 Countries Offer Gulf Assistance, BP Accepts Only 2 Offers"

The Gulf area was the largest new discovery of oil recently and its new online production has held pump prices down of petrol in America. Now that it is now out of bounds you will see those prices rise fast hitting every American with there big gas guzzlers firmly in the pocket.

So which is it going to be, higher prices for years to come and dependance on the Arab states for supply, or the once in 30 years of oil spills. My betting is that America will bleed BP dry, an American oil company will do a stock market raid on BP buying it for peanuts and then miraculously the Gulf area will be reopened for business as usual, with leasons learned from this spill.

Good business for America especially as it was an American manufactured piece of equipment which caused the initial failure.

i am in favor or $10/ gal gas

you will see more ideas and solutions for other sources of energy

I hope you'd be ready for $15 gallon milk. Or $20 pack of chicken breast or your medical costs ballooning even more than they already are.

$10 a gallon for gas would cripple the country more than you could ever imagine. There would be no progress in other technologies because there would be no prosperity from which to draw the capital.

ok, agreed. lets back it down to $6/gal (we weren't that far off 2 years ago)

They pay $8-10 a gal in europe right?

You obviously do not have a service oriented company. We struggle with the high costs of fuel adding to the overhead already. In small town USA (Or Louisiana) the median income is lower already. Add higher costs for services then the snowball starts rolling (faster than it already is). Already they (customers) are opting for the lower cost option which usually includes no worker insurance, comp. , health, auto etc. This results in a net liability for the customer if something happens. Our median income will drop also as the jobs leave. Many companies are contemplating the move or shut down pending the drilling moratorium (sp). We are not completely oil driven but it is all connected somewhat.

Sure everyone can "armchair quarterback" this situation. But the knee jerking kicks us right in the Balls!

Of course its just my opinion, what do I know? I live here, work here, been here all my life, and own a business here. And contrary to the belief of others in the country our education system goes past the third grade.

My lake doesn't have oil... lets go sailing.

Clayton

Whatever our cost is for gas in Europe it is about 2.3 times as much. But diesel fuel is much cheaper and much of the EU runs on that. Much of this cost in attributed to taxes. I believe in France the tax on petrol (gas) is like 70%.

Prices in Holland:
Gas is $1.90 / liter
Diesel is $1.48 /liter

How many liters in US gallons? 4?

Current average gas price (RON 95) in the Netherlands is $7.31 / US Gallon.

There's a difference between wishing that the price of gas/oil going up due to natural market fluctuations and wishing that someone would arbitrarily set the price higher. The only way the latter happens is with onerous government taxes. These days - thats not out of the realm of possibiliy.

You'll still see a rise in price of consumer goods when the price of fuel rises more than temporarily. I've read that our last excursion into $4+ gas was short enough to not affect consumer prices that much (it did) - but if it happened indefinitely you'll be paying the price not only at the pump - but everywhere.

I am a marketer for 3 medical companies. i think this is a service industry (health care is a service right?)

One of the companies sells products that we ship. i am well aware of the cost of shipping, and we are still paying "fuel surcharges" on every order we ship (despite fuel rates dropping 25% since the $4/gal).

However, I completely understand and basically agree with your points (and Tadd's).

I am also no economist but my comment was more ideology than actual theory.

my point was that higher costs (apparently around $4/gal) spurred on a tidal wave of "non oil" ideas and demand. wind, solar, thermo, etc were a hot topic 2 years ago (as was drill baby drill).

Of course our memory is sooo short as soon as prices fell back around $3 people canceled their prius orders and got back into their suv's.

I drive a 6 cylinder car, have a boat made from oil related materials, have lots of plastic in mu life (not really by choice), and am just as much a user of our oil nation as anyone else, but i would hope we find new ways (or go back to some old ways) that would reduce our dependency on fossil fuels.

i am no scientist and don't have many solutions to our current socio/economic love affair with oil, but i hope we can move away from it in my lifetime.

i have no desire to increase the cost of anything, except to spur on invention into "cleaner, renewable sources".

I certainly saw prices increase for everything when gas prices went up. Fuel surcharges, milk, etc.

It also seems to me despite any "deflation" in our current consumer basket that the govt reports.... i have felt large inflation in my personal basket of late. everything from utilities (up 20-30%) to services (dry cleaning, hair cuts, escorts to dogfood (25%) has seemed to have an unusually fast appreciation in costs, at least in my world.

Diesel costs more than petrol/gas in the UK

Petrol/gas £1-21/Litre = $9-64 / gallon
Diesel £1-25/litre = $9-96 / gallon

Most of that is tax

Sooo....when can we get those new Electric Cars I keep hearing about??

http://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3155453

BP's $23M in presidential campaign contributions is the best investment they've ever made.

If fuel jumped to $10/gal, whether through market prices, or taxation, I think that would be great! I wouldn't have to go to work anymore, because nobody else could afford to buy cabinets. That would be awesome! I could live off what the land provides me, shooting deer, and defensless people to take what they have. My god, why haven't we thought of this before?! Its a magical utopia just waiting to happen!

This ain't Europe. You could fit most of Europe into Texas, we don't have the population density to justify the cost of having mass transit everywhere. If people can't afford to get to work, our economy will be completly doomed.

I've said this before, you want a solution? Its easy, kill everyone you know. Or, wait for that new wonder virus to pop up and wipe out 50% of the population again. Of course in today's modern, mobile society, it'd probably be more along the lines of 90%. That's your solution. STOP BREEDING! Its not a case of suddenly having too many people, there has always been too many people, period.

Make love, not babies.

If you dig a little deeper you will find BP, and most other Major Corporations involved with any heavily regulated industry (airlines, autos, phama, etc.) give huge amounts of money to candidates of BOTH parties, so no matter who wins, they've got "Friends" in DC willing to make it go "their way".

If you are really board and want a good laugh, pick up P.J. O'Rourk's "Parliment of Whores". We have, "The Best Government Money CAN buy!"

how benevolent of you.

Like this?



Got $100K you can have one tomorrow, wait a few more years and the price may drop.

Tesla just got bought, in lose terms by Toyota and will be manufacturing these in California @ the old NUMI plant.

Each morning, I share the road with an EnerDel car or two (GM's latest electric vehicle venture). It looks a lot like a SmartCar or a smaller Honda Fit. The Delco battery research facility is just a few blocks away from my office.

I wouldn't mind driving one to the office, but I'm not sure about cross-country.

could you put your umbrella on it?

It might save energy downwind! Now if it could just go faster than the wind... Oops, that's another thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8402501
.
http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100530/NATIONAL/705299859/1139

Higher fuel prices will hurt all of us in many ways.
Being a retired trucking company owner, remember the old saying, "If you got it, a truck brought it."
And truckers are already hurting. Jump the fuel prices and you will be hurting.

I see complaining that the fact that those ships were headed this way wasn't in the headlines - but nothing saying that they weren't headed this way. Did the 30 UAE specialist get the green light to help?

There is apparently a law from the 1920's that prohibits foreign countries shipping from stopping in more than 1 port. That is some of the regulatory hold up with the "help" from outside the US. Seems someone could issue an executive order or something to dispense with the holdup.
BP is 41% owned by British concerns. A lot of people in Britian would be hurt (and already are) by a collapse of the company. Likewise in this country (USA) because 39% of the company is owned here by regular folks who own mutual funds in their 401ks/IRA's that hold BP stock. Cutting off our nose to spite our face?

$10/gallon gasoline in the US will prompt a war with someone. the oil embargo of the 70's and 80's almost did that (and actually touched off smaller skirmishes).

$6/gallon gas will cripple the US and flood our illustrious neighbors like Venezuela, Iran, and other nations with lots of dough, because developing nations will have no choice but to buy it (allbeit less, but still).

We have no other sources of energy available (at any cost) right now to handle the huge appetite for energy here in US, even if we combine all current technologies. We might be able to "ramp up" production of alternative energy (if we ignored permitting) to meet our CURRENT consumption in a decade or so...

If we were cut off of oil today, I'd buy a steam powered car. Technology already exists, fuel is readily sourced, and range is unlimited as long as water and combustibles are around. Sure, my carbon footprint won't go away, but I'd probably not lose much sleep over my "footprint" vs. my ability to feed myself.

Probably wouldn't be working in a nice little office, either. Will need to brush up on my farming/hunting skills (gator tastes pretty good when sauteed properly), and possibly loot a local tractor supply store and/or farm equipment dealer.

Oh, and Jake, how do you put 150 ships with straws all in the same spot? Have you seen how many boats are on the surface at the site already? That's a lot of stuff in a small space (not to mention all the tethers, ROV lines, cables, etc. under the ships.

One day of moderate sea conditions, and that parking lot could get ugly...

And BP is a public-traded company. Wonder who puts the pressure on the "board" or execs to push profit margins up? Shareholders. Who are the shareholders? you know the answer to that one....

Was intentional criminal activity afoot? Perhaps (an investigation should be able to determine that).

Incompetence? More likely (dead batteries in preventer?).

Convergence of a series of relatively unlikely events causing calamity? Certainly


There's a children's book "Because a Little Bug Went Ka-Choo" that pretty much sums up this whole oil spill...

That was ME that made that statement, not Jake.


Where do we put them? how about up BP's CEO's butt?

what REAL good would that do, Andrew?

I am in the camp that says, BP wants this to be BOTH A) stopped as soon as possible and B) estimated flow as small as possible.

I'm starting to get the impression that some of the enviromentalists want just the opposite.

Of course they do. What better way to prove your right? I think a fair portion of the people actually believe that these larger companies do nothing but dream of world destruction. Like some evil villain from a B movie. I'd say they're doing the same thing you and I are, but that would be a blatant lie, as the rest of us are for the most part are a pack of lazy and stupid chumps, and insanely jealous of their achievments and successes.




Why is it always the guy in charge who is to blame? Why not the guy who was in charge of checking the batteries on the widget?

Thats why he gets 4mil a year. to accept ultimate responsibility. just like why Bank CEO's must sign off on the financial reporting (after enron)... If the COO cooks the books, the CEO is responsible as well.

just like why the Coach is fired when the team doesn't win..

the guy who let the batteries die, is also to blame and liable to a degree. his actions caused this.. and he will probably get drawn and quartered for it

Check your math

1 US Gallon = 3.78 litres
1GBP = $1.47 today

so 1 litre of gasoline in the UK @ GBP1.21 = $6.72 / gallon.

Heck, I don't know. I just know I keep hearing complaints that we're not accepting help from other places but I haven't seen the evidence.

I also realize that boats are one thing but you still have to have a lot of support for those people and boats (places to offload the oil and water they skim, consumables, fuel, etc....).

I think the other wells they are drilling should be finished by mid-august at which time (if it's not fixed by then) they'll shoot concrete or something in there to jamb the broken well. So all that will be left is cleaning up the billions of barrels out there.

If the tar balls are sinking down, they're back at 5,000 feet, right? How do they make it uphill on to the continental shelf to then drift on the beach? Are the upwelling currents that strong, or will this sit like a giant ooze puddle at the lowest point of the gulf seafloor?

If the latter ends up the case, can't we drop a few straws down there to dredge the stuff off the floor?

What if they injected some chemicals that bond with the oil to make it a big, heavy "ooblek" like substance that would do just that... sit in one spot like a blob so you can suck it up when you get the ships in place...?

Just got back from a long road trip and saw all this. Andrew, your comment about 10 dollar a gallon gas is one of the most retarded statments I've heard in years. 10 bucks a gallon so we can get off oil? Thats like saying you hope everyone gets AIDS so they find a cure faster.

I had a conversation with a guy who worked for the company that manufactured the blow out preventer that got all effed up. He said all this trying to cap the well is basically impossible and everyone in the industry and the POTUS knows this. All this effort is all for show so people can say they are trying. People in the industry say the ONLY way to stop the flow is a relief well, which wont be done until august. Also known as "when the best catsailing venues in the world are totally effed forever".

Now what really pisses me off is if a well is in canadian waters a relief well has to be drilled CONCURRENTLY with the well for this very reason. Moreover, if it was in european waters (or friggin brazilian waters for chrissake) then a acoustic switch on the blowout preventer is mandatory. Only here can they get away with such lax safety precautions. Now lets see how many people manage to blame Obama for that. Surely it was 8 years of oilmen running the show and gutting the regulations that laid the groundwork for this. I am sure that if Obama tried to get stricter regulations through before this disaster he would have had nothing but total cooperation from all the "drill baby" morons. Meanwhile China is cranking out solar panels by the thousands. Pathetic that borderline third world countries are doing more to secure a oil free future than we are. Meanwhile you can kiss Santa Rosa sound goodbye.

Nice SUV by the way.

We have nobody to blame but ourselves, the voters and consumers who refuse to pay for anything and want equate the consumption of resources with wealth. Wealth is not measured only in dollars. Why have money if your faux-greco styrofoam million dollar mcmansion in Destin with the navigator and the jet ski out front smells like the decaying corpses of pelicans and dolphins? I'd rather live in a yurt in saskatchewan with a donkey and a sunfish (with the multicolor sail and a soft deck from being left outside). I would feel much richer, and happier to.

Amen! Forgive me, I'm a pastor ;-)

OKAY, so why aren't you living in the yurt in Saskatchewan??
What is stopping you? My guess is what you are saying is that you want THE REST OF US ALSO living in a yurt in Saskatchewan. And that's where I part company with your thinking. IF you want to go, GO. But leave me out of your vision of what the world should look like. Looking around my environment, I'm pretty happy with all the things I've got and how they operate.

In Canada, (the utopia of the north) IF they are required to drill duplicate wells, I can't imagine the added cost of production. Seems ridiculus to have that type of failsafe. But I'm not doubting the regulation. Canada has been poorly administered for years and years and all you need to do is view their healthcare system to see what effect the liberals have had on that country.

NOBODY that I'm hearing is blaming President Obama for the A-C-C-I-D-E-N-T. Did President Obama try to get stricter restrictions through? I don't think so. To say he wouldn't have been able to because of Republican opposition is downright ignorant of the facts. HE OWNS THE CONGRESS. HE CAN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS. EVER HEAR OF A SUPER-MAJORITY?

Finally, I am worried about your warped view of the current economic situation. What you seem to be saying is that we AMERICANS refuse to pay for anything. Do you not pay taxes? I do. Lots of them. Quarterly I send the equivilent of 1/2 a new BMW to the US TREASURY. What your liberal politicians choose to buy with those taxes (and plenty more they borrow from the Japanese and Chinese) is where your anger should be pointed. We have a 13 trillion dollar deficit. Clearly we are spending money. Money we don't have.

again this was more conceptual that actual... the POINT was:

when we went to $4 and $5 gal the desire / demand for more fuel efficiency, reduction in use, hybrids. demand for cleaner energy (wind and solar) and the spur of invention or at least attempts was great. 2 years later.. it's either completely gone, or just complete gone from the forefront of the public mind


I agreed that 10 was to steep and said ok $6/gal.

i lived in europe for 4 years, and even 20 years ago the cost for fuel was many many many times greater than in the usa. that didnt seem to destroy their economy.

and yes, this is JUST LIKE suggesting everyone should get AIDS... great metaphor ..

Andrew: We burn a lot of gas. $3.50/gallon would do it.

The first thing you have to do is stop giving BS and the other Harkonnens a voice. Put him, and the others like him, on ignore and then the rest of us might have a chance at a rational discussion.

I20: Stand your ground! All is not lost!

I was looking at pictures of the oil on Alabama beaches this morning. If Al. passed an emergency law requiring BP retailers to buy that stuff back, you'd have a small army of folks with pails and shovels scooping it up.

That's impressive Sparky. Them MINIs are cheap.

If the alternative for me was said tasteless mcmansion and ridiculous SUV than you'd find me in saskatchewan in a heartbeat. Instead I live in a passive solar/wood heated house with a 98& efficient propane boiler and drive a diesel VW that I try and run on bio (read Newport Biodiesel) as much as possible. How bout you? How much money do you send to Saudi Arabia? And I sail for ucks sake. And I pay taxes. I just wish they went to education instead of subsidies for industries that dont need them and compromise the safety of everyone on the planet. I would happily pay more for what fuel i use if it was earmarked for r & d of alternatives (read Craig Venter, another sailor) . And that supermajority never really existed or health care wouldn't have taken a year to pass in its watered down state. Furthermore, I am no blind leming following any political stripe. Energy should have been the #1, 1a,2,3,4,and 5 priority of POTUS. Like it was when Gore was elected.

Currently we are at about $6,50/ gallone - and we get along ...

" And that supermajority never really existed or health care wouldn't have taken a year to pass in its watered down state"

The supermajority never really existed? Did you take math in school? It took a year to pass because it is a colossally bad idea and the leaders of the Democratic Party are complete idiots. (Note: I'm not saying here that the leaders of the Republican Party aren't also idiots, but in this case they were irrelevant).

IF energy is the top 5 priorities for you, it sure makes it difficult for the President to re-invent 1/6 of the economy and try to keep the worlds muslims extremists from killing us. I guess he won't get your vote again.

When did Gore get elected (except as a Senator and as the world's biggest fabricator and hypocrite)?

Finally, all the dollars you pay in taxes should go to education huh? How does that work if Energy is 1,2,3,4,5? Oh I get it, the education is the Greenpeace, Sierra Club, PETA, NEA, SIEU, ACLU manifesto's..... am I right?

No Blind Lemming? When was the last time you voted for anyone other than a waaaaaay-out in space Liberal Democrat???

The supermajority never really existed because of pussies like ben nelson, I suppose you are one of those who thinks 90% of the public is against health care reform when in fact polling shows that when people understand what it does a majority are in favor.

I voted for Carcieri, a republican, because of his position on wind (read deepwater wind farm off block island).

an educated public with a broad capacity for general analysis of a wide range of issues can reasonably discuss issues without jumping to ridiculous conclusions about someone they never met. Gore just got the most votes, in florida, anyway, thats old stuff.

"an educated public with a broad capacity for general analysis of a wide range of issues can reasonably discuss issues without jumping to ridiculous conclusions about someone they never met."

Agreed. But sometimes it's sooo damn easy.

Who's polling are you referring to that shows a majority are in favor of the HealthCare reform? Also I think it's probably unlikely that ANYONE (especially those that voted for it in Congress "understand what it does." Everyday that are discovering new features and ramifications of the POS.

I think all this discussion about fuel prices is nice, but we're forgetting all the other things that petrochemicals produce: plastic, medicine, vitamins, fertilizer...pretty much anything we touch (and it was brought to your store by trucks). Alternative energy sources cannot produce those items themselves.

So $10/ gallon will kill the automotive segment. But it will only further cripple the medical field, consumer products, technology.... the list goes on.

As much as it pains me, I don't think we can live without petroleum. So, we'll (hopefully) learn from this disaster, work to prevent future ones, and go watch the "16 and pregnant" marathon on MTV.

I don't live in a yert, but I do drive a car that is about as old as Ghengis Kahn... and it gets 40 mpg on a good day (32 is the worst I've seen out of the past 8 years).

I am no luddite but i am starting to feel we are living to fast, and past our means for a healthy existence.

plastic - full of toxins.. now they are finding plastics leaching into our foods, poisining babys (the bottles and diapers) and how bout all the plastic in the oceans.. i guess its a moot point in the gulf now?

medicine - i work in the Alt health industry, and they (alt-med) believe modern (western) meds simply mask symptom (and they are basically poisons)... NOT tread/avoid the cause. Yes some people need them... but with better lifestyle and diet... most can get off them, we see it every day in our clinic.

vitamins - I sell supplements (as 1 of the 3 companies i work with), high end, organic, supplements made from ingredients.. not a chemical closit

fertilizer - whats wrong with organic guanno and similar? seems the earth did pretty well "growing" before we made synthetic fertilizers.

i am no tree-huger, and i ate a McFakeFish lastnight, but i do eat mostly healthy, i don't take any medicines (i control my weight, and blood pressure and sugar intake etc), i use as few plastics in my food (and life) as possible, and i think we are overly dependent on oil. in every way.

I love my mystere, but i am willing to sail a wooden catamaran if we move away from oil

maybe the Amish have a few things right?

not enough bird poop to support our current overconsumption. but good points nonetheless.

And maybe I should take another look at those sweet Shark catamarans...

then maybe our over-consumption is the problem????

(bingo, we have a weeener)
(and come to caladisi, there's enough bird crap for everyone..

whose judging whether or not he's overconsuming?

btw, I'd be dead right now if it wasn't for modern pharmaceuticals. Your alt-health people might claim that they are poisons - but as someone who sees what they do every day and how they are studied - I have a different perspective of it all.

maybe, but I recall some island in the pacific that was completely leveled by the poop-mining in short order. I think it's only source of revenue now are computer servers that operate there. Can't recall the name of the place but it was mentioned as a "host" country to some of the banking fraud...

Over consuption, or over population?

I am not saying they aren't life saving in some situations, of course there are many modern inventions/medicines that are.. but in MOST cases people can get off things like blood pressure meds, thyroid meds, diabetic drugs, viagra, mood/psych drugs if the causes (of the problems) are found and corrected.

Alt med's point of view is most disease is a function of an allergy, or an excess of something the body doesn't want/need or the absence of something the body needs/wants

and can be corrected by eliminating the allergy/toxin or replacing the missing substance (usually a mineral or vitamin)

This is alt-meds view and the more i see of it (been here 8 years now) the more i believe it to have sound principals. (there is nothing absolute or exclusive in my POV)

they go hand in hand.. and we know your "solution" Karl the Ripper

FYI, I'm married to a D.O. which involves a lot of "Alt Med".

I see it from both sides of your digression more than you know

Homeopathy, holistic, osteopathic is all good stuff, practice some of the philosophy myself, and you'll see with the younger doctors these days some what of a blend in how the go about managing and caring for patients simular to the osteopathic method.

But, as an absolute as you pointed out not everything can be cured with vitamins, minerals etc.... and not all drugs mask the problem. In some case you're going to need some roecefen, interferon, azithromycin, etc..... and I hope a someone like yourself will recognize this and know when to advise a patient to seek the other alternative such as western medicine.

there are no absolutes, and i am a web marketer not a practitioner. the only medical advice i prescribe is take 2 shots of rum and DONT call me in the morning...

Did you see this?
GW Bush's daughter is happy the bill passed:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/13/barbara-bush-health-care_n_610545.html

Really? What am I going to replace my Levothyroxine with, Andrew?

She'd better hire a good body guard. The GOoPers and Teabaggers will try to give her some electroshock therapy.

Got it!!!!

Tell your pituitary gland to stop being a Girley Man and PUMP IT UP

I am not a practitioner but i know that thyroid is the hottest topic in our clinic next to weight-loss and by far the most attended lecture that we offer (we had a full house last week).

i would be speaking out my butt if i suggested i had knew all that much about it (thyroid) personally, but i do know its a top problem with our clients (many dont have a clue what it is), and we have lots of success in correcting it and getting people off their drugs (that is a top priority of our practice)


People who have been on their thyroid meds for 30 years are coming off them after getting their thyroids corrected at our clinic. IF you seriously want more info PM and i will give you the number of our clinic and you can talk with our patient coordinator and she can tell you what tests are done, and what the "typical" treatment is and you can find your own local alt med practitioner to work with, or the next time you are in town i will see if capt morgan will help

some of our newsletters suggest:
Artery inflammation and heart disease are greatly increased (300%) by high homocysteine- an amino acid found in the blood. If your level is above 9 it can be lowered by taking extra amounts of B6, Folic acid and B12. If you haven’t had your homocyteine checked by your doctor, he can order the test. While he’s at it, also check your thyroid status. If your TSH (Thyroid stimulating hormone) is above 1.5, and you have cold feet and hands, thinning hair, slowed bowels, loss of eyebrows at the outer edges, dry skin, you are probably hypothyroid as well- which also causes high blood lipids.

and

Selenium is also required for the conversion of the thyroid hormone T4 to T3 (the active form). If this conversion does not take place the body will show symptoms of hypothyroidism such as constipation, dry skin, mental slowness, lack of energy, hair loss, and fluid accumulation.

http://www.optimumhealthreport.com/articles/hypothyroid.asp

here is an article about how selenium deficiencies affect the thyroid
http://www.optimumhealthreport.com/articles/selenium-important-mineral.asp

thats why we shouldnt burn it

Found this interesting, if you haven`t seen it..
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/06/17/bp.judge.oil.ties/index.html?eref=igoogle_cnn

Since when does the accused get to hand-pick the judge?

This is a civil case, not criminal. There is no "accused". If I was in BP's shoes, I'd certainly want a judge who is knowledgeable of the oil and gas industry, and I'm sure that's the argument they used when making this request.

Despite the donations, he's seems to be fair and even-handed when ruling. Unfortunately, that fact is buried in the whargarble.

An "oily" judge? Feels like dead fish to the touch, looks like dead fish---maybe it IS dead fish making that stink.

Where is Greenpeace now that we need them to dump about 10 barrels of lovely but generic crude onto Tony Hayward's 53 foot yacht "Bob". Or, how about Tea Party people-- or do they just TALK TALK TALK?

Nope. They don't just talk...... Hopefully, they V-O-T-E too!

But I'm missing the point of your Greenpeace comment. BP has accepted the responsibility and ponied up $ 2 Billion dollars so far. What is to be accomplished by dumping oil on him OR his boat?

You gotta get your head out of the 60's .

He needs to get his head out of his butt

Since when does the prosecution get to pick the judge?

That's something you're highly qualified to talk about Ninny. How's the first issue of Kennelboy Magazine coming Ninny? Any more high profile advertisers on board?

And what's up with the "project" on the Cape? Are you and your "cousin" scouting locations for the first Kennelboy Club? Massachusetts is pretty liberal Ninny but that might be a little too much.

The island was devastated, mined to little fragments by guano mining, since guano is bird poop, that is mostly urea, an excellent source of nitrogen as plant fertilizer. I think the Sultan collected all of the money and built huge gold-plated palaces full of Mercedes limosines, then began casino gambling. A Typical capitalist.....