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#221653 - 10/14/10 01:15 PM Outright speedsailing record broken!  
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Tony_F18 Offline
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The kitesurfers have taken back the record of l'Hydroptere by averaging 54,1kts over 500m!
I think it is mainly the weight of his balls which keep him on the water...

-- Have You Seen This? --
#221658 - 10/14/10 03:25 PM Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: Tony_F18]  
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Karl_Brogger Offline
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Damn!

That board is frickin' tiny!


I'm boatless.
#221659 - 10/14/10 05:06 PM Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: Karl_Brogger]  
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That's a freakin' waterski!


Hobie Tiger 2003
#221672 - 10/14/10 09:50 PM Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: Don_Atchley]  
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DennisMe Offline
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Jeez.. next thing you know they'll break the record barefoot!

#221731 - 10/16/10 03:43 AM Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: DennisMe]  
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Devon Offline
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actually if someone uses a pair of barefoot shoes then wouldnt that be considered a cat?

#221740 - 10/16/10 06:48 AM Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: Devon]  
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IndyWave Offline
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So, a guy on a waterski, connected to a parachute, is considered SAILING?

There are people who jump out of airplanes with boogie-boards on their feet. If they pop their chute and touch down in water, would that qualify for the sailing record too?


What - Me Worry?


2006 Hobie Wave 7358
"Ish Kabibble"
#221743 - 10/16/10 08:09 AM Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: IndyWave]  
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Originally Posted by IndyWave
So, a guy on a waterski, connected to a parachute, is considered SAILING?

There are people who jump out of airplanes with boogie-boards on their feet. If they pop their chute and touch down in water, would that qualify for the sailing record too?


Only the vertical speed record. But that will be beaten by someone using a tropical drink umbrella (once).

#221753 - 10/16/10 02:34 PM Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: IndyWave]  
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srm Offline
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Originally Posted by IndyWave
So, a guy on a waterski, connected to a parachute, is considered SAILING?

Its the same question that's been posed everytime someone breaks the record on an unconventional craft like windsurfers, hydrofoilers, and one-way planing tri-pod boats. I don't see how a kiteboard is any more unique than those craft. It's 100% wind powered, in contact with the water, and supported by hydrodynamic lift. Sounds like sailing to me.

sm

#221776 - 10/16/10 10:03 PM Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: srm]  
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JeffS Offline
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Not really sailing, if you put the sail in the right place you can slingshot yourself along the course like turning at the back of a ski boat. The longer you want to go in a straight line the longer your control wires. Great to see though I watched one wind down the course of the Cooper Creek while the kite came straight down, same guy parked it in a tree for about 3 hours as well


Jeff Southall
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
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#221777 - 10/16/10 10:36 PM Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: JeffS]  
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"So, a guy on a waterski, connected to a parachute, is considered SAILING?"
Yes...so what bothers you the most? A) The fact that he is going nearly twice as fast as a typical beach cat. 2)The fact that he is doing it for 10% of the cost of a new NACRA 20CF? C) The fact that all the gear it took to break the record would fit in the trunk of a sub compact car? D) All of the above.

#221785 - 10/17/10 02:12 AM Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: Seeker]  
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Wouter Offline
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I accept the validity of the record but one thing does bother me a little.

The boats achieve the records in MUCH lower windstrengths then the boards. Basically the boards are waiting for windspeeds that are themselves very close to the speed record itself. Theoretically, they can staps themselves to a large bedsheet in a Katrina type hurricane and have themselves dragged over the water whereas the boat actually break technological barriers by sailing at least twice as fast as the wind.

In the case of Hydropthere, they break the record on open water and not some man made or highly specialized speed trench.

That to me gives more weight to Hydroptheres record.

Afterall we are not counting the experimental rocketcar on rails as a valid entry into the automobiel speed record either.

It is a case of the brute force approach against the elegant approach. I will always favour the last.

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 10/17/10 02:13 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
#221791 - 10/17/10 07:27 AM Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: Wouter]  
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srm Offline
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Originally Posted by Wouter

It is a case of the brute force approach against the elegant approach. I will always favour the last.


The argument could go both ways. Personally, I find something admirable about a craft that can actually go out and be sailed efficiently and under control in tropical storm force winds (I don't know of any craft that has broken the record in actual hurricane force wind). Windsurfers and kiteboards have an elegent simplicity that far exceedes the complexity and expense of l'hydroptere. If anything, I would consider l'hydroptere to be more of the "experimental rocketcar" than the windsurfer/kiteboard which can be easily purchased by any aspiring speed sailor.
sm

#221794 - 10/17/10 10:32 AM Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: srm]  
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I'm not denying he achieved a speed record, and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with kite-skiing; but it's stretching reality too far to call a waterski a boat, and a parachute a sail. Yes, he harnessed the power of the wind to propel himself at 54 knots, but call it what it is and establish that category's record. If you're talking sailing a boat at 50 knots, then l'Hydroptere found a way to do it; this guy did not.


What - Me Worry?


2006 Hobie Wave 7358
"Ish Kabibble"
#221812 - 10/17/10 06:04 PM Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: IndyWave]  
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Well somebody would just have to break it up into classes. Foiling, not foiling, multi hull, mono, and something for a mast vs sail supported by wires.

Regardless this dude still has the over speed sailing record on water.


I'm boatless.
#221820 - 10/17/10 09:17 PM Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: Karl_Brogger]  
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Both are awesome in their own right. One takes big nerve....the other takes a big bank account. I am more impressed that a kite guy with enough guts can take a few grand and beat a record set by a multi million dollar engineering marvel.

#221839 - 10/18/10 05:36 AM Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: Seeker]  
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"Yes...so what bothers you the most? A) The fact that he is going nearly twice as fast as a typical beach cat. 2)The fact that he is doing it for 10% of the cost of a new NACRA 20CF? C) The fact that all the gear it took to break the record would fit in the trunk of a sub compact car? D) All of the above."
Haha, brilliant, I think you`ve summed it up here. Except "almost twice as fast as a typical beachcat" should read "almost 3 times as fast" - most beachcats can do not too much past 18knots, maybe 21 for the Tornados & F18 etc. (By typical beachcat I understand H16).
I believe people who won`t acknowledge kitesurfers as sailors are of the same mindset as those who discarded windsurfing as a form of sailing when they first started taking the records. This happens every time someone`s perception of what a "boat" constitutes is challenged. Besides, WSSRC has ownership of the rules, and the kitesurfers have satisfied the WSSRC that they are water-borne craft powered by wind, so they are entitled to the record of the fastest wind-powered water-borne craft.
It would be easier for everyone to get along if we could just appreciate eachother`s disciplines, Hydroptere can be the fastest trimaran on hydrofoils, Sailrocket can be the fastest one-way monohull, Windsurfers can still have their own record, kites can be the fastest anything-that-floats, and Macquarie Innovation can claim to be the fastest "Thing with Wing" (How anyone can classify that as a sailboat is beyond me - see, we all have our prejudices !)

#221841 - 10/18/10 05:43 AM Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: Seeker]  
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Originally Posted by Seeker
Both are awesome in their own right. One takes big nerve....the other takes a big bank account. I am more impressed that a kite guy with enough guts can take a few grand and beat a record set by a multi million dollar engineering marvel.


+1

I'm impressed with their nerve, skill level, and simplicity of kit. But I ain't doin' it!


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

#221842 - 10/18/10 05:45 AM Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: Karl_Brogger]  
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Jake Offline
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The thing that bothers me about it is that they are sailing in a purposely designed trench for the record making it as far from what we would call "sailing" as possible.

While they are all powered by the wind (which is fine in my book), I do take issue with the conditions of the water on which the various records are being set. They're SO incredibly different I believe there should be three speed record categories; one for sailing in a drag trench, one for sailing in protected (flat water) shallow lee-shore like what Sail Rocket and Macquarie Innovation have been doing, and third for open water like what Hydroptere is capable of. Granted, you would have to put some definitions on these course types but these really are very different records sailed in these three different formats.


Jake Kohl
#221850 - 10/18/10 07:11 AM Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: Jake]  
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where do the ice boats and land yachts fit into the equation?Both are sailing as well.


I wonder how limited the speed of a kite is? like if you were to do it on ice?


I'm boatless.
#221879 - 10/18/10 10:27 AM Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: Karl_Brogger]  
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IndyWave Offline
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+1

If a waterski qualifies as a boat, ice skates would have to, as well. They're in contact with water.


What - Me Worry?


2006 Hobie Wave 7358
"Ish Kabibble"
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