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#226897 - 01/17/11 05:50 AM Any Info?  
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DanTnz Offline
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Hi All,

This class looks like a great concept, I'll be looking to build one of these for my son in a couple of years time.

I was just wondering, google search doesn't reveal a class association website or anything. Have I missed it?

Also, is there a definitive set of rules available? I note that there is already mention of some rules being changed already from the rules sticky'ed above - like pocket sails not having stays.

Grateful if anyone can point me in the right direction.

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#226901 - 01/17/11 06:54 AM Re: Any Info? [Re: DanTnz]  
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JeffS Offline
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G'day DanTzn I modified the rules so what you see at the top of the page is the rules, you havn't missed anything the class was started on this forum and is still going please keep us up to date with your progress
regards Jeff


Jeff Southall
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#226903 - 01/17/11 07:44 AM Re: Any Info? [Re: JeffS]  
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DanTnz Offline
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Thanks Jeff, good to know that thems the rules.

I'll keep you up to date if there is any progress! Will be a couple of years before I'll attempt it and before the boy will be big enough to sail it. Cheers, Dan.

#226933 - 01/17/11 02:13 PM Re: Any Info? [Re: DanTnz]  

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Another DS being built in Finland.

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#227051 - 01/19/11 08:55 AM Re: Any Info? [Re: ]  
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Gato Offline
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Nice, any other DS12 sailing?

#227061 - 01/19/11 12:41 PM Re: Any Info? [Re: Gato]  
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DanTnz Offline
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Guys, while I'm on the topic - whats the consensus on rigs?

I was thinking of a two piece round section carbon mast with a pocket luff sail. Simple, light, pretty cheap and easily transportable. But that was until read the rules more closely and worked out that the sail had to be able to be lowered at sea. I couldn't figure out a way of getting the spreaders and stays onto the mast and being able to lower the sail.

I see that Vudu looks to have a pocket sail and spreaders & stays, so there must be a way.

I was thinking the simplicity of the rig would outweigh any performance gained from a wing section mast - and mean one less control line (mast rotation).

Anyone put any thought into this? Dan

#227075 - 01/19/11 03:23 PM Re: Any Info? [Re: DanTnz]  

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Gato no more sailing but a few in build.

DanTnz visit Gato's website www.gust.ax to see the carbon masts we are doing for the DS12s. The drawings for the DS have the spanner tieing off to the tramp. The idea is to set it on the beach and then go sailing. This gives more adjustablity than the H16 style stops on the mast step but still simplifies sailing for kids. I suspect that as kids get a little older and more experianced the means to adjust will be added.

#227139 - 01/20/11 02:36 PM Re: Any Info? [Re: ]  
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DanTnz Offline
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Nice one, thanks for that, excellent series of photos. Where did the bolt rope insert come from?

#227149 - 01/20/11 04:33 PM Re: Any Info? [Re: DanTnz]  

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Gato made it. You could get away with a single bigger tube which could be more easily made.

#227645 - 01/27/11 10:53 AM Re: Any Info? [Re: ]  
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Gato Offline
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Scarecrow is righ, a lot less work and you can also make a tube that is not round if you do it yourself.

#228423 - 02/09/11 08:33 AM Re: Any Info? [Re: Gato]  
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DanTnz Offline
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Guys, thanks for the info. My aim is to be able to car top, mainly because I have to take a ferry to get on and off the Island, so trailer or overhangs = more dollars.

In theory, could such a mast be made two piece? My ideal would be a slightly shorter version of the Weta mast.

Has anyone put any thought into an unstayed mast? I would have thought previously that it wouldn't be stiff enough for the righting moment of a cat - or to trap off. But the Devoti One is carrying 11m2 and a 15m2 kite with no stays and designed for heavyweight crews, so it could be a possibility. It would be great just to able to drop the mast in and go.

#228438 - 02/09/11 11:48 AM Re: Any Info? [Re: DanTnz]  
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Gato Offline
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I started to make a mast in two pieces, but I did not complete it, I could still do it, I don't think there is a problem doing it. It will be a little heavier thats all.
There has been talk about an unstayed mast, but so far not interest enough to do one.

#228472 - 02/10/11 06:29 PM Re: Any Info? [Re: DanTnz]  
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Luiz Offline
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Originally Posted by DanTnz

Has anyone put any thought into an unstayed mast?


Wouter Hijink proposed this setup. He participates in this forum, just write to him.
All the best,


Luiz
#228508 - 02/12/11 01:31 AM Re: Any Info? [Re: Luiz]  
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DanTnz Offline
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Thanks, just found the earlier thread that included what I wanted to know om Wouter's proposal.

I'll have to put some more thought into that - hadn't factored in the effect a trapeze could have on sail shape on an unstayed mast.

#228537 - 02/13/11 09:35 AM Re: Any Info? [Re: DanTnz]  
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Luiz Offline
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Originally Posted by DanTnz
Thanks, just found the earlier thread that included what I wanted to know om Wouter's proposal.

I'll have to put some more thought into that - hadn't factored in the effect a trapeze could have on sail shape on an unstayed mast.


I was told that the trapeze lines would be attached to tape reinforcements sewn to the sail sleeve. Use of the trapeze bends the mast to windward and back and this must be considered when making the sail.


Luiz
#228549 - 02/14/11 04:42 AM Re: Any Info? [Re: Luiz]  
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DanTnz Offline
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I'm really attracted to a freestanding rig, I can't think of an elegant solution for the mast base. Wouter's solution would work fine but I think it would get in the way while sailing. Will have to get the calculator out for some other solutions. Countering the fore and aft loads seems to me to be the biggest problem.

#228565 - 02/14/11 11:37 AM Re: Any Info? [Re: DanTnz]  
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Luiz Offline
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Another solution was proposed by PHil Brander that uses a hollow dolphin striker. Wouter's solution is structurally better, it is already used in a small Hobie and other boats.


Luiz
#228587 - 02/15/11 03:14 AM Re: Any Info? [Re: Luiz]  
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DanTnz Offline
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DanTnz  Offline
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I didn't realise Hobie did a freestanding rig, thanks for the tip - found it on their site: http://www.hobiecat.com/sailboats/bravo/

It's not the most elegant of solutions!

I thought of a hollow drop in tube down thru the beam onto a dolphin striker. I ruled it out as I was trying to avoid having a dolphin striker at all. I also thought it would have to be really big to take the fore and aft loads without any additional fore and aft bracing - then the solution is to have a kind of diagonal dolphin striker. But then the design is getting more and complex and the idea of the freestanding mast was simplicity.

So now I am back to square one in my reasoning - a conventional stayed rig might be simpler all round. It may be better to think of rapid rigging systems.

#228595 - 02/15/11 08:05 AM Re: Any Info? [Re: DanTnz]  
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Gato Offline
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With the present solution it takes about 15 min from cartop to sailing.
Btw. in Finland the mast is ok on top of the car.

Last edited by Gato; 02/15/11 08:06 AM.
#228646 - 02/15/11 07:42 PM Re: Any Info? [Re: DanTnz]  
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Luiz Offline
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Luiz  Offline
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Originally Posted by DanTnz
I didn't realise Hobie did a freestanding rig...
It's not the most elegant of solutions!


It is quite elegant in terms of structural stresses.
I must agree that engineers are the only ones to consider efficient solutions inherently beautifull, though.


Luiz
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