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Re: America's Cup Cascais Coverage [Re: ] #236213
08/12/11 10:47 AM
08/12/11 10:47 AM
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Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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that dial-up (Oracle/Artemis) was intense.. I need some Blood pressure medication!


Jay

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: America's Cup Cascais Coverage [Re: waterbug_wpb] #236214
08/12/11 11:05 AM
08/12/11 11:05 AM
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tampa, fl
K
ksurfer2 Offline
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Who won Oracle/Emerites? I missed the last 2 legs.


If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one
Re: America's Cup Cascais Coverage [Re: ksurfer2] #236215
08/12/11 11:07 AM
08/12/11 11:07 AM
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pgp Offline
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Emirates. What's with the "dial down"? I never heard of it before.


Pete Pollard
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'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: America's Cup Cascais Coverage [Re: pgp] #236217
08/12/11 11:31 AM
08/12/11 11:31 AM
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Dunedin Causeway, FL
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Originally Posted by pgp
Emirates. What's with the "dial down"? I never heard of it before.
I believe in match racing, you are allowed to hunt the other boat, but it appears, in this case, to have backfired.

Re: America's Cup Cascais Coverage [Re: hobiephil] #236218
08/12/11 11:37 AM
08/12/11 11:37 AM
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pgp Offline
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Yep! I thought something had broken on Spithills boat.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: America's Cup Cascais Coverage [Re: ] #236219
08/12/11 11:37 AM
08/12/11 11:37 AM
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Sebring, Florida.
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I just finished reading Dean Barker's coments from the above link, if you have not, take a minute and see what he says.

I went through the same learning process when I transitioned from racing mono dinghys to cats, and it has taken me years to get "up to speed" in cats, so to speak, which is why, when the new AC Multihull teams were announced, I was surprised ETNZ (and some others) were trying to convert life-long mono-drivers to cat drivers, in such a short time.

I would have thought all the teams would have chosen from the pool of life-long multihull drivers, who already have the "basic instincts" to race a big cat fast upwind and down, vs. trying to train up a newbie. My thoughts were piqued again when I saw that VX 40 collision at Cowes.

I realise the AC teams are putting in a lot of time learning on these boats, vs. the rest of us weekend hacks, but still, why isn't Randy Smyth driving for one of these teams, or is he but I just haven't heard his name yet?


Blade F16
#777
Re: America's Cup Cascais Coverage [Re: Timbo] #236220
08/12/11 11:38 AM
08/12/11 11:38 AM
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pgp Offline
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Dunno, ETNZ has Ashby handling sails.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: America's Cup Cascais Coverage [Re: Timbo] #236222
08/12/11 11:56 AM
08/12/11 11:56 AM
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MERRITTISLAND, FL
Matt M Offline
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Originally Posted by Timbo
I realise the AC teams are putting in a lot of time learning on these boats, vs. the rest of us weekend hacks, but still, why isn't Randy Smyth driving for one of these teams, or is he but I just haven't heard his name yet?


A number of noticeable names missing from the picture; Randy, Bundy, Mischa amongst some others.

Note that guys like Barker, Spithill have been doing a lot A class racing the last bit and it really showed in the bit of film I watched today with the fleet race.
Coutts and team look pretty armature in their boat handling and decisions. They will undoubtedly be better over the next 2 years before the actual cup race, but right now they are a bit behind the learning curve. I think a bit **** in how fast they thought they would pick this up.

Still experience in cats doesn’t make it all. Look at a full complement of World class Tornado guys on China and they seem even more out of the game. Guys like Green Com with no experience and a new ride were bringing up the back, but today were driving right over China.

Re: America's Cup Cascais Coverage [Re: Matt M] #236225
08/12/11 12:19 PM
08/12/11 12:19 PM
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South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Matt M
Originally Posted by Timbo
I realise the AC teams are putting in a lot of time learning on these boats, vs. the rest of us weekend hacks, but still, why isn't Randy Smyth driving for one of these teams, or is he but I just haven't heard his name yet?


A number of noticeable names missing from the picture; Randy, Bundy, Mischa amongst some others.

Note that guys like Barker, Spithill have been doing a lot A class racing the last bit and it really showed in the bit of film I watched today with the fleet race.
Coutts and team look pretty armature in their boat handling and decisions. They will undoubtedly be better over the next 2 years before the actual cup race, but right now they are a bit behind the learning curve. I think a bit **** in how fast they thought they would pick this up.

Still experience in cats doesn’t make it all. Look at a full complement of World class Tornado guys on China and they seem even more out of the game. Guys like Green Com with no experience and a new ride were bringing up the back, but today were driving right over China.


I thought that too - but they are gradually soaking up the multihull top guys that re making a living of sailing (and some that weren't previously). Ogletree, Ashby, Booth....I guess you also have to weigh in the professionalism that is required to be on a full time team like this. Most of the multihull guys, even those that make a living at it, haven't been part of that crowd. There are some advantages to keeping the basic team together and sprinkle in some specific experience even though the rules changed a bit.

With regards to Booth, China has had very little training time with their boat. I would expect them to be more competitive soon.


Jake Kohl
Re: America's Cup Cascais Coverage [Re: Matt M] #236227
08/12/11 12:22 PM
08/12/11 12:22 PM
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Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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I guess in the end, it's still "sailing" ie. sometimes a crapshoot, you get the puff nobody else got or you were in front and hit the hole first, the guys behind see you parked and sail around it, to win, etc. But still, at this level, I would have thought every team would want the top cat racers on board and train them to match race, vs. take a top match racer, and try to train him to race a cat.

I guess the one factor that kind of levels the playing field is, the wing thing is new to everyone, (but I would have put the top C class guys on my short list of crew!) so the learning curve on wing handling is steep for all of them.

It will probably be the same curve all over again, when they come out with the Monster Boats, the 72 footer!


Blade F16
#777
Re: America's Cup Cascais Coverage [Re: Matt M] #236228
08/12/11 12:23 PM
08/12/11 12:23 PM
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Punta Gorda, FL
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Spithill and Ashby sailed in the last C Class cat regatta. They came in second on a borrowed boat with about 1 week of experience on it.

How do you think your results would improve if you had John Kostecki crewing for you and calling tactics?

Re: America's Cup Cascais Coverage [Re: jkkartz1] #236229
08/12/11 12:26 PM
08/12/11 12:26 PM
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Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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John's too fat to crew for me on my Blade...

;^)


Blade F16
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Re: America's Cup Cascais Coverage [Re: Timbo] #236230
08/12/11 12:28 PM
08/12/11 12:28 PM
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Coutts got some hard needed training from Bundy in between races today.

Re: America's Cup Cascais Coverage [Re: pgp] #236231
08/12/11 12:31 PM
08/12/11 12:31 PM
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South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
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Originally Posted by pgp
Emirates. What's with the "dial down"? I never heard of it before.


This only applies in the match racing rulebook - but if the two boats are close and on opposite tacks coming into a mark to be rounded to starboard (match racing!), a starboard boat will have to tack again onto port to make the mark while port ~might~ be able to lay. Starboard would have a bit of a disadvantage under the normal rules (largely due to the starboard rounding). SO...in match racing, if port is having to duck starboard, starboard is allowed to dial down and "hunt" the port boat making them have to dive deeper or tack away. Starboard can't constantly turn down though, they have to drop to some angle below close hauled and hold that course (I'm not sure how long, how early, etc.). The is a call the port boat has to make very early approaching the situation and if they get it wrong, they get a penalty.


This came into play in the last race of the 32nd America's cup (which was a very dramatic race). New Zealand was on the left and fast but couldn't quite get clear of Alinghi when they would come back to the middle. Alinghi dialed them down coming into the top mark. New Zealand tried to duck but didn't get it done. Alinghi had to change course to avoid New Zealand and NZ was hit with a penalty (360 turn). New Zealand managed to pass Alinghi on the last downwind leg and then it got weird. The wind shifted 180 degrees and NZ was ready for it - Alinghi seemed to already be dreaming of champagne and when the shift hit them, it blew their kite back, broke the spin pole and made a general mess of the deck. New Zealand jumped to a lead and started to do their penalty turn just before the finish line...but they did it just a little too early and finished their turn with a little more than a boat length to the line with very little breeze and very little momentum. Alinghi crawled forward with momentum and beat them across the line by a foot or two. It was gut wrenching.


Jake Kohl
Re: America's Cup Cascais Coverage [Re: Jake] #236232
08/12/11 01:25 PM
08/12/11 01:25 PM
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pgp Offline
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It's too hard for me to claw up to weather, I can't see giving any of it away.


Pete Pollard
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'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: America's Cup Cascais Coverage [Re: Timbo] #236233
08/12/11 01:26 PM
08/12/11 01:26 PM
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Roanoke Island ,N.C.
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World champions and Olympic medalists are the sailors with the best resume', the boats are just a different tool for the job. They'll get it. Coutts is definitely a bit ****, busting his crews balls after all the mistakes he made(OCSs, and hitting ETNZ).

Originally Posted by Timbo
I guess in the end, it's still "sailing" ie. sometimes a crapshoot, you get the puff nobody else got or you were in front and hit the hole first, the guys behind see you parked and sail around it, to win, etc. But still, at this level, I would have thought every team would want the top cat racers on board and train them to match race, vs. take a top match racer, and try to train him to race a cat.

I guess the one factor that kind of levels the playing field is, the wing thing is new to everyone, (but I would have put the top C class guys on my short list of crew!) so the learning curve on wing handling is steep for all of them.

It will probably be the same curve all over again, when they come out with the Monster Boats, the 72 footer!


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: America's Cup Cascais Coverage [Re: Timbo] #236234
08/12/11 01:28 PM
08/12/11 01:28 PM
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South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Timbo

It will probably be the same curve all over again, when they come out with the Monster Boats, the 72 footer!


Those things are going to be redonkulous.


Jake Kohl
Re: America's Cup Cascais Coverage [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #236235
08/12/11 01:32 PM
08/12/11 01:32 PM
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Naples, FL
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when you're boat is traveling in excess of 40kph downwind in a busy crossing (fleet racing) situation, how can the driver waaaay back on that boat figure out how close to call the gybe?

You gotta have good depth perception or an excellent bowman...

I've accidentally poked a few people with the spin pole at busy starting lines, and that one is only 25 feet away!


Jay

Re: America's Cup Cascais Coverage [Re: jkkartz1] #236236
08/12/11 01:56 PM
08/12/11 01:56 PM
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Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
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Originally Posted by jkkartz1
Spithill and Ashby sailed in the last C Class cat regatta. They came in second on a borrowed boat with about 1 week of experience on it.

How do you think your results would improve if you had John Kostecki crewing for you and calling tactics?


I think Kostecki has a lot to learn. He doesn't have any fancy electronics helping him make decisions and I think it's showing. Hopefully he'll get it soon.


Have Fun
Re: America's Cup Cascais Coverage [Re: catman] #236239
08/12/11 02:11 PM
08/12/11 02:11 PM
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I just read on SA that there will be stop at New Port next summer. Can anyone confirm?

If they come to the east coast, I'm there!

Here it is:

http://www.americascup.com/en/Latest/News/2011/8/AMERICAS-CUP-WORLD-SERIES-TO-BE-HELD-IN-NEWPORT-RI/

Last edited by pgp; 08/12/11 02:14 PM.

Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

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