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#244080 - 02/15/12 09:24 PM US Sailing MHC: Alter Cup Survey Open Feb 15-20, 2012  
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brucat Offline
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Want to be heard? Here is your chance...

We are trying to get the word out to as many multihull sailors as possible. Hopefully, you will also receive this message through the normal Multihull Council channels (Area Reps, class chairs, etc.).

Please forward this to every multihull sailor in your network, class, fleet or club. We want literally every multihull sailor in the country to participate. Time is of the essence!!!

Here is your opportunity to weigh in on what many consider to be the most important “product” that US Sailing offers to multihull sailors, the US Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Trophy (aka the Alter Cup). Here is a link to a short survey that will be open through Monday, the 20th of February: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/USMultihullChampionshipFormatandFuture.

As you may know, I became Chair of the US Sailing Multihull Council in October 2011. Since then, lots of great things are happening. One of them is a renewed focus on ensuring that the US Multihull Championship is a relevant event with a strong future. The Multihull Council is working to rebuild the event with the US Multihull Championship Committee, which itself is being reconstituted.

The leadership of US Sailing wants to transform the US Multihull Championship into the most relevant multihull event in the United States, one that will attract new and upcoming sailors, who will form the nucleus of future US Olympic sailors.

To that end, Jack Gierhart, Executive Director of US Sailing, has directly asked me, “What do the multihull sailors want?” So, here is your opportunity to provide your opinions on the future of this championship.

Nothing is impossible, and nothing is off the table. However, the harsh reality is that the economic environment in which we currently operate is making it increasingly difficult to hold the event within the current format and funding structure. So, we either need to find additional revenue streams, change the format, or both.

The survey is composed of questions that are intended to get the creative juices flowing. We have been canvassing sailors all winter, and are really taking a long, hard look at all aspects of the event. We would like to hear from all multihull sailors around the country, even if you have never participated in this event.

As you know, there currently is no Alter Cup championship announced for 2012. A bid is in the works, and the intent of the survey is to come up with a long-term (5-year) plan, so we can return some stability to the planning of this event.

We are at an unprecedented moment in the history of the US Sailing Multihull Council. We are working hard and achieving a renwed cooperative relationship with the leadership at US Sailing. We are working on a number of things, including a revamp of our website, a new Youth multihull program, and of course, ensuring the success of the Alter Cup. We will be announcing a Spring meeting (teleconference) shortly to discuss further business for the 2012 season and beyond.

Remember, the survey is only open through Monday, the 20th of February. We want to hear from you! Your opinions will shape the future. Thank you for your time.

Mike Levesque
Chair, US Sailing Multihull Council

-- Have You Seen This? --
#244085 - 02/15/12 10:03 PM Re: US Sailing MHC: Alter Cup Survey Open Feb 15-20, 2012 [Re: brucat]  
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Jeff.Dusek Offline
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I sent it to the Eastern Area F18 google group and posted it to our Facebook page. Hope you get some good feedback.


USF18 Eastern Area Rep
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#244086 - 02/15/12 10:19 PM Re: US Sailing MHC: Alter Cup Survey Open Feb 15-20, 2012 [Re: brucat]  
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brucat Offline
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Thanks Jeff.

To all: I am totally OK with you posting links elsewhere (the more, the merrier), but please link to the following page so they can read the intro:

http://racing.ussailing.org/Multihull.htm

Anything you can do to emphasize the short window would be great, too.

Thanks.

Mike

#244087 - 02/15/12 11:33 PM Re: US Sailing MHC: Alter Cup Survey Open Feb 15-20, 2012 [Re: brucat]  
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H17cat Offline
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Completed survey, and forwarded to Hobie Cat Division 4.

#244090 - 02/16/12 12:03 AM Re: US Sailing MHC: Alter Cup Survey Open Feb 15-20, 2012 [Re: H17cat]  
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Mark Schneider Offline
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What do you think most people will want to do with the USSA multihull championships?


crac.sailregattas.com
#244091 - 02/16/12 01:23 AM Re: US Sailing MHC: Alter Cup Survey Open Feb 15-20, 2012 [Re: brucat]  
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Shared with Division 3 and SFF-18


Richard Vilvens
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http://www.capricornsailing.com/
#244098 - 02/16/12 07:53 AM Re: US Sailing MHC: Alter Cup Survey Open Feb 15-20, 2012 [Re: Mark Schneider]  
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Well, I think we're in the position of starting over and will list some of things, in no particular order I'd like to see.

* MEGA PAR-TAY!
*
THE CHAMPIONSHIP should probably be sailed on formula or OD boats on a rotating basis. IMO, personal or chartered boats should be allowed. I think the land based rigging portion is as much a racing skill as on water performance. Otherwise we should just use Sunfish.
* Some sort of on site qualification- finish in top 50% (or whatever) or get flicked. Have a huge consolation race for us mere mortals on one day and clear the water for the top sailors and the championship round.

Mostly, we have a chance to come together as a group and get rid of some of the old animosities. Let's make the best of it.

I'd nominate the H-16 as the initial class for this new championship. It got us here, why not recognize our history?

Last edited by pgp; 02/16/12 07:54 AM.

Pete Pollard
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#244099 - 02/16/12 08:51 AM Re: US Sailing MHC: Alter Cup Survey Open Feb 15-20, 2012 [Re: brucat]  
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Done, but man, that has got to be one of the longest surveys I have ever done!

Very thorough, thanks for taking the time to set that up!


Blade F16
#777
#244100 - 02/16/12 09:28 AM Re: US Sailing MHC: Alter Cup Survey Open Feb 15-20, 2012 [Re: pgp]  
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Mark Schneider Offline
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I will make the counter argument.

Mutlithulls OD classes are different then dinghy OD classes. We have much more of a tradition of working and racing each other. For example, many sailors started on Hobie 14, moved to 16, an 18 a 20 and perhaps back to a 17. Laser sailors do not have much in common with 505 sailors.

We have one design or Formula NA's in the major classes. Picking a OD boat and running a smaller 20 boat championship for the US Sailing championship duplicates the national scene.

I would say the US multihull championship should be a bring your own boat Handicap regatta in one of three disciplines.
Singlehanded, Doublehanded Sloop and Double handed Spinnaker.
Rotate every year...

The Area Championships would match the format of the National championship (Singlehanded) and winning the regional championship gets you a huge discount on a charter boat for the nationals. (Builders would support the championship just as they do now... since they could drop the spin or jib as needed on most of the boats they buld)

The EU essentially does this now.. CARNAC is a huge event with large handicap starts and is essential a run what ya burng EU championship.


crac.sailregattas.com
#244101 - 02/16/12 09:36 AM Re: US Sailing MHC: Alter Cup Survey Open Feb 15-20, 2012 [Re: brucat]  
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Um, I don't want to address any of your appoints in counter argument, as I think it premature. Clarification is needed?

Continuing the conversation:

* Imo, MEGA-PAR-TAY should be the underlying rationale. The Championship should coalesce around a social event. Those of us not able to seriously compete could still celebrate the PROCESS as well as the winner.

* To keep things simple, implementing as few changes as possible at any one time, why not let the HCA (as I've nominated them ) host the Alter Cup as part of their 16 Nationals? Let the one event serve both purposes.


Pete Pollard
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'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

#244104 - 02/16/12 10:00 AM Re: US Sailing MHC: Alter Cup Survey Open Feb 15-20, 2012 [Re: pgp]  
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Mark Schneider Offline
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Would you go to the Hobie 16 NA's/ US Sailing Championship and charter a Hobie 16 to compete if you race an A cat?

Double branding some regatta makes no sense to me.

RE a big party... How far have you ever driven and how much time would you allocate for a Big Party. I think the social is clearly secondary to championship competition. You have to get that right first.


crac.sailregattas.com
#244105 - 02/16/12 10:02 AM Re: US Sailing MHC: Alter Cup Survey Open Feb 15-20, 2012 [Re: Mark Schneider]  
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Anything handicap is nothing more than a variation of the now defunct One of a Kind championship. With the mess handicap racing is it's hard to believe this type of format is even being considered. Can you imagine having the N20's and any F boats in the same grouping, they are spin boats after all so everyone should be in favor, right? A measurement based handicap system will not fix the issue.

You've also pointed out that it's difficult for someone to trade their class's championship for the US Multihull Championship. So what you'll probably end up with is a DBS Championship and does that really give us a champion?


David Ingram
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http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
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"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
#244108 - 02/16/12 10:45 AM Re: US Sailing MHC: Alter Cup Survey Open Feb 15-20, 2012 [Re: Mark Schneider]  
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Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
Would you go to the Hobie 16 NA's/ US Sailing Championship and charter a Hobie 16 to compete if you race an A cat?

Double branding some regatta makes no sense to me.

RE a big party... How far have you ever driven and how much time would you allocate for a Big Party. I think the social is clearly secondary to championship competition. You have to get that right first.


I've driven as far as Spring Fever, maybe 600 miles? I agree with you, people have to decide if they want a dead serious championship event or a social gathering.

I favor a socially driven championship because that's the only way I can get in! laugh

Last edited by pgp; 02/16/12 10:45 AM.

Pete Pollard
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'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

#244109 - 02/16/12 10:47 AM Re: US Sailing MHC: Alter Cup Survey Open Feb 15-20, 2012 [Re: David Ingram]  
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Originally Posted by David Ingram
Anything handicap is nothing more than a variation of the now defunct One of a Kind championship. With the mess handicap racing is it's hard to believe this type of format is even being considered. Can you imagine having the N20's and any F boats in the same grouping, they are spin boats after all so everyone should be in favor, right? And no Mark a measurement based handicap system will not fix the issue.



+1

But I can imagine all manner of boats showing up to party, sail a couple of days and then spectate at the Championship.

We sorta had this format at Tradewinds, I thought it worked well.

Last edited by pgp; 02/16/12 10:48 AM.

Pete Pollard
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'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

#244113 - 02/16/12 11:12 AM Re: US Sailing MHC: Alter Cup Survey Open Feb 15-20, 2012 [Re: brucat]  
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brucat Offline
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You guys are certainly free to discuss this forever here, but the official way to have your voice heard is through the survey.

That survey carries even more bang than picking up the phone and calling me (which only one or two of you have done)...

Said another way, if you really care about the future of this event, start with completing the survey!!!

Mike

#244114 - 02/16/12 11:18 AM Re: US Sailing MHC: Alter Cup Survey Open Feb 15-20, 2012 [Re: brucat]  
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David Ingram Offline
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Did it at 7AM this morning and I signed it. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
#244115 - 02/16/12 11:25 AM Re: US Sailing MHC: Alter Cup Survey Open Feb 15-20, 2012 [Re: brucat]  
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pgp Offline
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Completed last evening.


Pete Pollard
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'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

#244116 - 02/16/12 11:33 AM Re: US Sailing MHC: Alter Cup Survey Open Feb 15-20, 2012 [Re: brucat]  
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ThunderMuffin Offline
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Done.

If you go over the results and say "wow this is one jaded SOB" then thats mine.

#244117 - 02/16/12 11:48 AM Re: US Sailing MHC: Alter Cup Survey Open Feb 15-20, 2012 [Re: brucat]  
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pgp Offline
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Enligten us. Let us hear the wisdom of the "Manly Corpus."


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

#244125 - 02/16/12 12:35 PM Re: US Sailing MHC: Alter Cup Survey Open Feb 15-20, 2012 [Re: David Ingram]  
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Mark Schneider Offline
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Quote
Anything handicap is nothing more than a variation of the now defunct One of a Kind championship. With the mess handicap racing is it's hard to believe this type of format is even being considered.


Mess??? only because we refuse to fix the US system.

how about some facts. ... The rest of the world races handicap with huge turnout numbers.... Hell... the Tai regatta was bigger then 90 percent of US multihull regattas. EU events like Carnac and Texel... where each handicap class is bigger then US NA's in most classes. Carnac is almost an interclass EU Multihull championship.


Quote

You've also pointed out that it's difficult for someone trade their class's championship for the US Multihull Championship. So what you'll probably end up with is a DBS Championship and does that really give us a champion?


Now you get to the fundamental issue.... you have no respect for those sailors... you would not waste your time competing against them for any championship. ... in fact... if the event were held on Hobie 16's with spins.... would you participate?

IMO, the only solution to a US Multihull championship is for the One design classes to fully support the idea. Make a hole in the schedule / replace a One design regatta with a modified qualifier and make it clear that the class would like it's top dogs to compete in the cat fight/US sailing Championships. The machinery should then work to solve the geographical issues with charter boats.

For the US multihull championships to succeed, they must be different then NAs and be founded on mutual respect.

Otherwise... they should just go away.


crac.sailregattas.com
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