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#24532 - 09/24/03 10:19 AM Texel Number for P19 MX?????  
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brobru Offline
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Hello,

Does someone, ( can someone), figure out a Texel Number?

The boat is the current production P19 MX ( which is the only version sold the last couple of years..0

The Texel site does not list it.

The only change is sail area,.....square top main,.....bigger jib,....forestay modifyication on rigging..

thanks,

Bruce

St. Croix

-- Have You Seen This? --
#24533 - 09/24/03 12:09 PM Re: Texel Number for P19 MX????? [Re: brobru]  
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Posts: 3,095
Mark Schneider Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mark Schneider  Offline
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Annapolis, MD
Well that is a can of worms reminiscent of the Nacra 6.0 NA rating used for the Tybee 500 race.

Basically, the sails have to be measured and then numbers put into their calculator. The rating system was not kind to the Nacra 6.0NA I don't think many could have sailed the boat close to its calculated rating.

Good luck.


crac.sailregattas.com
#24534 - 09/24/03 04:55 PM Re: Texel Number for P19 MX????? [Re: Mark Schneider]  
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brobru Offline
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Ok,

someone figure this out ( Wouter, are you out there?)

Performance site has a main of 247 s.f or 22.95 m square ,.

Actually,..this is a TOTAL sail area,.....they do not give a main sail area and then a jib area (.....makes you wonder a little,....all the inter's on the same site give a respective main and then a jib sail area.... )

Make no mistake,......the boat likes the new sail configuration........it is truely turbo mode!

Bruce
St. Croix

#24535 - 09/24/03 05:29 PM Re: Texel Number for P19 MX????? [Re: brobru]  
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catsailorp19mx Offline
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Crystal Beach/Dunedin CSWY Fl.
Hey Bruce,
Really going after this aren't you?? The P19MX giving you a hard time? LOL
This may help you to some degree. From what I have "readily available" Randy stated that my MX main was 190 sq. ft. The MX jib was 75 sq. ft. IF my memory serves me correctly the "stock" jib was 57 sq. ft. and the pin head main was 175. I remember looking up the total sq. ft. on various boats, and it is pretty darn close to the Nacra Express. I'm probably pretty close, but I'll dig deeper in Smyth's folder. If I made a mistake, someone will correct me...that is fine.

LOL,
Dave

#24536 - 09/24/03 05:52 PM Re: Texel Number for P19 MX????? [Re: brobru]  
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catsailorp19mx Offline
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catsailorp19mx  Offline
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Hi Bruce,
Maybe you can cruch these numbers.

http://www.performancecat.com/manuals/PrindleClassRules1999_2001.pdf

Have fun,
Dave

#24537 - 09/25/03 01:55 AM Re: Texel Number for P19 MX????? [Re: brobru]  
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Wouter Offline
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Wouter  Offline
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Brobu,

PLease gether the following info :

Overall weight ex spi (if you have only overallweight inc spi than I can use that too)
Mainsail area
Mainsail luff length
Jib area
Jib projection on mast (often this is equal to the leech length)
Length hulls are of P19 I guess

When you have these sorted out than I'm willing to calculate the P19 MX number for you. PLease provide the sources you used too.

WOuter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
#24538 - 09/25/03 10:02 AM Re: Texel Number for P19 MX????? [Re: catsailorp19mx]  
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brobru Offline
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Dave and Wouter,

Here are the official numbers from performance.

boat lenght 19' 2.5 " (5.85 m)
boat width 8' 6" (2.59 m)
weight 385 lbs (174 kg)
mast height 30' 3" (9.22m)

Dave,...can you give the Smyth dimensions on the rest of the data Wouter needs?......

Of course, this is unofficial,....but it is time that a number is presented,...especially when a non MX P-19 is not even manufactured anymore.

Besides, the Caribbean Race season is about to begin,..and I couldn't beat the normal P-19 rig..........so,..we need this number!

right now they set the Texel # 1 point lower ( a 102) which is very generous to them........:-)


...thanks to all...

Bruce
St. Croix
I-17euro

#24539 - 09/25/03 10:12 AM Re: Texel Number for P19 MX????? [Re: Wouter]  
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brobru Offline
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Wouter and Dave,

Here are the numbers from Performnce

boat length 19' 2.5" ( 5.85 m)
boat width 8' 6" ( 2.59m)
weight 385 lbs ( 174 kg)
mast height 30' 3" (9.22 m)

Dave, ...can you give the other numbers, from your Smyth file, so Wouter can get a number.......thanks

..of course,...this is an unofficial number....

..we are coming up to the Caribbean Racing season,...and I will be banging heads with these MX all season,....I only beat them ONCE with the normal rig....ha!....they took the other 30 races!

....right now,...they drop thier number from 103 to 102,....always wanted to see how good a number that is..

Bruce
St. Croix

#24540 - 09/25/03 10:31 AM Re: Texel Number for P19 MX????? [Re: brobru]  
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catsailorp19mx Offline
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Hi Bruce,
The enclosed link above should give Wouter the information he needs for his calculations. FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, and I have been wrong before, various "in-the-know" sailmakers can design sails that are on "the edge" of class legal.

From the day I received my MX package, it appears that the numbers have dropped to the point that I owe time to a Hobie 20, am rated even with a Mystere 6.0 and have to come in on a Nacra 6.0 NA's castings. These are all 20 foot boats. The boat is not that fast.

Good luck with what you are trying to do.
Dave

#24541 - 09/25/03 11:23 AM Re: Texel Number for P19 MX????? [Re: brobru]  
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Mark Schneider Offline
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Mark Schneider  Offline
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Annapolis, MD
Hi Bruce,

One question:
What are your reasons for choosing Texel over the USPN system.

One comment:
The performance data has the P19MX rated slighly faster then a Hobie 20 and almost as fast an old Tornado (100). Since Texel rounds to whole numbers, my guess is the rating will be about 101 when all is said and done. (not much different then the 102 currently used)

One opinion:
As always, the relative performance (and rating) differs between the comparable boats as the wind picks up. (Taken into account by USPN) the current texel system strives for simplicity and uses a single rating number. Are most of your races 45 minute windward leeward or Olympic courses OR are they several hour distance races?
IMO, Boat handling issues dominate the differences in elapsed time on short courses and the rating system and its precision is not that important. However, distance races really depend on ratings with a bit higher precision as true boat speed starts to dominate the results.

Good luck
Mark


crac.sailregattas.com
#24542 - 09/25/03 12:04 PM Re: Texel Number for P19 MX????? [Re: Mark Schneider]  
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brobru Offline
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Hello All,

1. In the caribbean,..with all the different nationalities,..we agreed to use Texel.....keep it simple.

2. Races vary per regatta,....St. Croix International is multiple 50 minute courses over 3 days,....rolex is long, long races ( sometimes around islands).....so,..we get it all.

...thanks for all the answers,.....amkes this a valuable forum,......yes?

Bruce
St. Croix

#24543 - 09/26/03 03:14 AM Guys, sail area 's ? [Re: brobru]  
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Wouter Offline
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Wouter  Offline
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Are you in agrrement of sail area's and what is the Spi size ?

I need those .

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
#24544 - 09/26/03 05:04 AM Re: Guys, sail area 's ? [Re: Wouter]  
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catsailorp19mx Offline
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Wouter,
From the paperwork that I have, the P19MX main is 190 sq. ft. The Mx jib is 75 sq. ft. I just finished sending two emails for confirmation; one to the sail loft and one to smythteam.com. Please viewers, lets let Randy's affairs alone.

Thanks,
Dave

#24545 - 09/26/03 06:40 AM Re: Guys, sail area 's ? [Re: Wouter]  
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brobru Offline
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brobru  Offline
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Wouter.

Can you calculate a NON - Spin number,.....

...thanks

Bruce
St. Croix

#24546 - 09/26/03 09:05 AM Re: Texel Number for P19 MX????? [Re: brobru]  
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vicatman Offline
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vicatman  Offline
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St Croix Virgin Islands
Bruce if you recall they didnt use Texel at Rolex because of the MX.....it was used here but not at Rolex

#24547 - 09/29/03 03:32 AM Re: Guys, sail area 's ? [Re: brobru]  
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catsailorp19mx Offline
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catsailorp19mx  Offline
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Wouter,
I just received an email from Randy Smyth with regards to the size of the P19MX package. The sail area that I posted
are "good". Main is 190 sq. ft. and the jib is 75 sq. ft. Randy said, "of course it depends on which method is used to measure them".

Dave

#24548 - 09/29/03 05:31 AM The P19 MX rating [Re: brobru]  
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Wouter Offline
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Wouter  Offline
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North-West Europe


I took the hull measurements and overweight of the Texel website. I'm sure about the hull measurements and I don't trust the PC weight quotes.

I've estimated the luff lengths of the various sail on the size of the sails and what is specified on the Texel website for a normal rig. I'm confident that I'm close enough.

No spi as requested.

Weight 185
rated length 5,79
Main area 17,67
Main luff 8,7
Jib are 6,98
jib projection on mast 5,9
Boards yes
no spi
doublehanded.

TR = 100 (no spi) and 96 with texel style spi od no more than 21 sq.mtr.

With weight 175 the ratings drop to TR = 99 (no spi) and TR = 95 with spi.

I hope this helps

Wouter



Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
#24549 - 09/29/03 07:01 AM Re: The P19 MX rating [Re: Wouter]  
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brobru Offline
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brobru  Offline
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Wouter and all

...thanks for the calulations,......again,...this is an estimate....


regards,

Bruce
St. Croix


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