As always, you attack the class rules. If you can't work within them just say so. Start your own class that conforms to your rules.

I doubt Macca can even remember paying for a boat out of his own pocket

Now I pay for many boats out of my own pocket!!!

Pete, You still struggle to understand the written words. I have not attacked any rules, I just made a statement regarding the cost of building boats and the relationship to weight and stiffness. You brought the F16 into it, so don't cry when the shortcomings are pointed out.

How's this. You've always criticized the F16 weight, now you're ranting about the F18 weight. If, as you say, you can save money at both ends, describe this remarkable optimum boat for us. Hell, why not build one! The world will come flocking to your door! You'll be annointed THE MACCA! In time we'll all come to forget the word "Hobie" and every catamaran will become known as a "MACCA"! You'll be rich and famous (think of the women that will come flocking to you)!

THE MACCA 17? So, just how much should a proper catamaran weigh? The world wonders. Ooh, ooh, can you deliver it for $10K?

Anyone interested in a '05 Tiger? Only raced 3-5 times per year. Excellent condition. Loyd and I are looking to sell ours.. We're looking for about $10K. So is that half the price of a new one? What a bargain. My daughters are racing more with me on the H16 so I never get a chance to sail the F18. I haven't raced it since 2010.

Pete, you really have some issues to work out, I have never met you but your charm and intellect on this forum are enticing to say the least.

I have just gone through my posts and can't find anything in them that could in any way be interpreted as a "rant" and upon review its clear that I was simply making a contribution to the topic which by the way is about the cost of F18's. My responses have been directly related to the topic, unlike your (how do you say it?).... Rant?

He really likes you, it's his way of flirting. He really, really wants a boat named after you.It all makes sense.
Jake could say it with big words and sciencey descriptions, I just give the insight.

Indeed it's about the price of F18s. So why the issue of weight and stiffness?

Admittedly in this case "rant" is a hyperbole. But I get so tired of chasing away the red herrings, straw man arguments, and ad hominem fallacies. Couldn't you be just a little creative? You've begun to sound like Goldilocks, (squeaky, high pitched voice) "this boat is too light, this boat is too stiff, the new wonderful "Macca" will be just right. It will be made of paper mache and cost just 12 cents."

Come on man, throw in some fancy looking equations, refer to some engineering concept I've never heard of. "Too light, too heavy." It's boring. I'll bet Wouter's wooden home build is just as fast and just as stiff as anything rolling out of any factory any where in the world.

That may be why ISAF won't consider a home build! One or two people here will remember that Holman and Moody started in a garage and became the BEST in their field.

Back to the subject, the price is what it is because that's what the traffic will bear. I'm betting the OP knows that and was just lamenting how addicted he is to this sport.

Time for my meds...

OK Guys - against my better judgement, I have to post.

How in the world can these things get so twisted? This board is one of my favorites and you are clearly a smart bunch. However, every now and then things seem to go very awry. How can an objective question get turned into personal attacks? Perhaps its SAD, too much time on the hands, whatever...

My take: Things are simply more expensive. My apologies to non-US guys for this example, but a decked-out mid-size Buick was $25k 12 years ago. Just saw one on the lot Sunday for over $40k. Yikes! (btw, I was there for another reason - I'm not a big Buick fan...)

Why are they more expensive? There are many good (as in relevant) reasons, but I think that goes way beyond the scope of what we should belabor here. This is catsailor.com, isn't it?

Personally, I'm in the market for an F18. However I've held off due to cost. Do I begrudge that fact? No. I realize its a toy and putting money away for kids college etc. has to be a priority - at least for now ;-) .

I curious... Are you going to buy that $21K Tornado, or are you going to spend the extra for an F-18? I think your answer will help explain why F-18s cost more than Tornados... Just a thought.

Why would class weight need to increase to build a stiff F-16? The class specifies minimum weight, not maximum. Hell, a Mystere 5.0 XL fits in the F-16 box. It's even heavier than the Viper.

Imo, the perception of personal attacks is due to the acceptance of political correctness, debate is becoming a lost art. Unless you limit remarks to the banal you'll be subject to criticism.

Daniel.
No I'm not going to buy a Tornado. I like the F-18 fleet in my area, and I also like my boat. At the current prices I will be keeping my Tiger or trying to pick up a used newer style boat.

I knew it was only a matter of time before the wheels fell off Pete's bus again.

Pete's neither upset nor losing it, and probably his meds are working out just fine; he's just trying to have a debate, he even said so.

How else did we get to page 8 without an attack on US Sailing?

Mike

This whole thread reminds me of that old joke:

Why are Divorces so Expensive??

Because...they are WORTH IT!

But no one wanted 2 divorces at the same time.

Because, both weight and stiffness are major factors in determining the cost of the boat!!!

Just as foil length and aspect ratio are major factors in cost. if we were still using 2.5ft long boards made of foam and glass then the boats would be cheaper, but we now have 7ft boards made only from high modulus carbon, so they cost a lot more.

I don't think its possible to make it any easier for you to grasp the concept, so if you still don't get it, I'm sorry, but thats as simple as the issue gets!

You're operating within a market. The only thing you know for certain about a market is that it will fluctuate! Recent history shows us a collapse of the housing market, and a lesser collapse with cars. Do you think the F18 market is immune?

Keep focusing on cost, without regard to price, and the market will test that theory.

When was the last time there was a retreat in F18 sales? You've had one or two posters in this thread point out that margins are sharply down! So, go ahead, continue focusing on cost. Price will take care of itself.