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Kid's Cat #25289
10/20/03 09:31 PM
10/20/03 09:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline OP
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Luiz  Offline OP
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Asuncion, Paraguay
There goes another crazy idea:

I dreamed about a "Kid-cat" using as many Optimist parts as possible. Then, the "upgrade kit" - cheap, because it would make use of existing Optimist parts - would allow kids to choose if they want to sail the regular Optimist or the Cat version.

I'd expect that kids sailing the cat would soon discover that they are faster and generally more interesting - and develop an earlier interest in multihull sailing.

The Optimist rig is extremely easy to move from one boat to the other. In my club (and probably most places), the rigs are left assembled inserted in small tubes that were cemented into the ground near the wall of an enclosed area. The hulls are kept elsewhere. If we made a small cat that could receive the same rig, a kid would be able to use either the Optimist or the Cat anytime - no fuss.

It woud be better if the same daggerboard and rudder could be used - ideally one each, instead of a cat's usual double rudder / double board setup.

If this is not technically impossible, then the kit would be a) two hulls and b) a connecting platform w/daggerboard case, mast support and rudder gudgeons.

Sounds simple, but... Can it be done?


Luiz
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Kid's Cat [Re: Luiz] #25290
10/21/03 08:14 AM
10/21/03 08:14 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 70
Outer Banks, NC
OBXCC Offline
journeyman
OBXCC  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 70
Outer Banks, NC
A great multihull for kids in the optimist age and size range is the Windrider 10. We use these boats in some kids programs and we have the kids out sailing a triangle course in less than an hour (they are actually on the water in about 15 minutes). It is not the traditional yacht club way of learning to sail but kids are hooked quickly on the speed and simplicity of the boat. The boats are relatively inexpensive, car toppable and are a great boat to get young kids hooked on sailing and multihulls. You should check one out!

Re: Kid's Cat [Re: Luiz] #25291
10/21/03 09:49 AM
10/21/03 09:49 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
carlbohannon Offline
old hand
carlbohannon  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
I understand what you are talking about. I am considering a 13-14 ft boat that would at least start by using a Laser rig. I have several rigs, boards and rudders in my garage and attic. The cost of the boat goes down drastically if you can use existing rig, rudders and dagger board.

I am looking at tunnel hull boats, like the Laser Vortex or Hobie Bravo. I have discovered these are not catamarans, in the classic sense. The water flow is different. They are based on 70's International Moth's. The Moth at 11 ft and very light would match your Opti. If I can find plans I will pass them on. The Tunnel hull is considered a dinghy by Yacht clubs and easily accepted.

I will write a more complete post, when I find more but I will tell you what I know about the tunnel hulls. The Tunnel Hull looks like a catamaran and sails ~like one but doesn't work like one. Water flows around each catamaran hull independently. In tunnel hulls the water is one flow path. The water is forced between the hulls and the passage gets smaller toward the stern creating lift. At high speeds, it planes. At low speed it works like a cat. It is always very stable. One reason I think the modern designs are so slow, is they are heavy. The Laser Vortex and Hobie Bravo weigh 200-250 lbs. The Moths were ~ 40-50 lbs

Re: Kid's Cat [Re: Luiz] #25292
10/22/03 02:51 PM
10/22/03 02:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 312
Memphis, Tennessee
Damon Linkous Offline

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Damon Linkous  Offline

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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 312
Memphis, Tennessee
Something shaped like the Hobie 12 Monocat might work.

Here's a four page brochure for the Hobie Monocat.

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Damon; 10/22/03 05:34 PM.
Re: Kid's Cat [Re: Luiz] #25293
10/22/03 03:24 PM
10/22/03 03:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2
S
Sharky Offline
stranger
Sharky  Offline
stranger
S

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2
Hobie Bravo
Hobie Wave

I gave a Bravo a whirl this summer. It was fun.

Re: Kid's Cat [Re: Damon Linkous] #25294
10/22/03 05:57 PM
10/22/03 05:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline OP
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Luiz  Offline OP
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Asuncion, Paraguay
That's exactly the concept tha I'd apply to the Laser rig.
Maybe it could be made smaller for the Optimist rig.
Thanks!


Luiz
Re: Kid's Cat [Re: Damon Linkous] #25295
10/22/03 06:13 PM
10/22/03 06:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 215
Ohio
T
TeamTeets Offline
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TeamTeets  Offline
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T

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 215
Ohio
watch out for the spyware, malware, viagra pushing ads and popups on the beachcat site


Mike, Ohio
Former H16, H18, N20, N17, M4.3
Re: Kid's Cat [Re: TeamTeets] #25296
10/22/03 07:51 PM
10/22/03 07:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 312
Memphis, Tennessee
Damon Linkous Offline

enthusiast
Damon Linkous  Offline

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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 312
Memphis, Tennessee
Quote
watch out for the spyware, malware, viagra pushing ads and popups on the beachcat site


Mike,

What have I done to offend you? Could you explain your comment?

Re: Beachcats.com site [Re: TeamTeets] #25297
10/22/03 08:31 PM
10/22/03 08:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 349
Fort Loramie, Ohio
jmhoying Offline
enthusiast
jmhoying  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 349
Fort Loramie, Ohio
Mike,
I've been a big fan of thebeachcats.com site since it started up and I haven't had any of the problems you've mentioned. Maybe you should check with your internet provider??
Jack Hoying
Fort Loramie, Ohio


Jack Hoying Fort Loramie, Ohio
Re: Beachcats.com site [Re: jmhoying] #25298
10/22/03 10:01 PM
10/22/03 10:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 215
Ohio
T
TeamTeets Offline
enthusiast
TeamTeets  Offline
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T

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 215
Ohio
It's not my ISP... the content on the site is fine but the banner ads hosted by fastclick.com and served by http://cserver.mii.instacontent.net/ are promoting "tools and services" which are what I would consider the web site equivalent of email spam. The banner ad company is the problem... allowing blatently misleading advertising such as pop-ups that say "your machine is infected with spyware... click here to clean" after which they will install their own ad tracking software (spyware). As the promoter/owners of a site we should all carefully check the policies of any ad provider that we allow on our sites.

Sorry I wasn't clear the first time... there is great content on the site.


Mike, Ohio
Former H16, H18, N20, N17, M4.3
Re: Kid's Cat [Re: Damon Linkous] #25299
10/22/03 10:03 PM
10/22/03 10:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 215
Ohio
T
TeamTeets Offline
enthusiast
TeamTeets  Offline
enthusiast
T

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 215
Ohio
Damon... you have not offended me but the banner ad provider on your site has. See other post above.


Mike, Ohio
Former H16, H18, N20, N17, M4.3
Re: Kid's Cat [Re: TeamTeets] #25300
10/24/03 01:29 PM
10/24/03 01:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 351
Santiago, Chile
Andinista Offline
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Andinista  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 351
Santiago, Chile
When I was a kind, we had a small cat with a sunfish sail. It was slower and uglier than a real sunfish. The lee hull would sink before the winward one would raise. It was fun for kids, no doubt, what we enjoyed the most was riding on strong winds, where the rest of the boats were in trouble..

If you want to develop interest for multihulls, you have to make a decent machine, big part of the fun consist on controlling the boat, a stable catamaran might be boring. It fact, later my father changed it for a laser II, we were surprised about the higher speed and fun it provided. Until now I find more mystic on sailing a monohull, being able to raise a spi, etc. I recently got a catamaran myself, it is not ready to sail yet, I'm excited about the bigger speed and all that, but I still have to know it's mystic, my kid cat didn't give me that.

Re: Kid's Cat [Re: Andinista] #25301
10/24/03 01:36 PM
10/24/03 01:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 351
Santiago, Chile
Andinista Offline
enthusiast
Andinista  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 351
Santiago, Chile
Something similar happen to me with snow sports. Snowboard is easier and more efficient on deep snow than skiing, but I don't find the same mystic on it. I do telemark skiing, the harder and the slower of all, but for me the most intersing.
(not saying I don't like cats)

Re: Kid's Cat [Re: Luiz] #25302
10/25/03 06:12 AM
10/25/03 06:12 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 164
The Netherlands (North West Eu...
RobLammerts Offline
member
RobLammerts  Offline
member

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 164
The Netherlands (North West Eu...
Just bought my kid first Cat.....

[Linked Image]


Rob Nacra 6.0 European version Nr 090 + Spi
Re: Kid's Cat [Re: Andinista] #25303
10/25/03 07:46 AM
10/25/03 07:46 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline OP
veteran
Luiz  Offline OP
veteran

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
It IS a challenge to design a cat platform using the Optimist rig and still make it fun for a kid to sail, but the use of an Optimist rig in a Cat platform doesn't necessarily mean it would be too stable or boring - at least I hope not.

Maybe the "mystic" of monohulls is because one has to manage greater risks at lower speeds, compared to a multihull. I believe it is more inteligent to manage LOWER risks with GREATER speeds in a properly designed multihull

Cheers,


Luiz
Re: Beachcats.com site [Re: TeamTeets] #25304
10/26/03 01:28 AM
10/26/03 01:28 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 312
Memphis, Tennessee
Damon Linkous Offline

enthusiast
Damon Linkous  Offline

enthusiast

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 312
Memphis, Tennessee
Quote
Poster: TeamTeets
The banner ad company is the problem... allowing blatently misleading advertising such as pop-ups that say "your machine is infected with spyware... click here to clean" after which they will install their own ad tracking software (spyware). As the promoter/owners of a site we should all carefully check the policies of any ad provider that we allow on our sites.

I agree with this, although I hadn't seen anything like this on TheBeachcats.com myself, but I had some (two) complaints about the "sliding" ads called InVue. These were the most intrusive on surfing and I've decided to remove them entirely.

Re: Beachcats.com site [Re: Damon Linkous] #25305
10/26/03 04:37 AM
10/26/03 04:37 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 545
Brighton, UK
grob Offline
addict
grob  Offline
addict

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 545
Brighton, UK
Damon,

You have had other complaints about the ads on your site because I complained to you myself on this forum,see http://www.catsailor.com/forums/sho...w=&sb=5&o=&fpart=2&vc=1.

Also the annoying sliding ads are still there I got one this morning.

Apart from the annoying advertising the TheBeachcats.com is a great site and still one of my favourates.

Re: Beachcats.com site [Re: grob] #25306
10/26/03 08:41 AM
10/26/03 08:41 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 164
The Netherlands (North West Eu...
RobLammerts Offline
member
RobLammerts  Offline
member

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 164
The Netherlands (North West Eu...
Hi Grob,

I have never see an ad on Catsailor.
You can find several pop-up killers on the web.
I use Zone alert pro. I don't see any ads or other onoying messages at all.


Rob Nacra 6.0 European version Nr 090 + Spi
Re: Beachcats.com site [Re: grob] #25307
10/26/03 01:37 PM
10/26/03 01:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 312
Memphis, Tennessee
Damon Linkous Offline

enthusiast
Damon Linkous  Offline

enthusiast

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 312
Memphis, Tennessee
Quote
Also the annoying sliding ads are still there I got one this morning.


Could you tell me what page you saw it on? I really believed they were all gone, but it's hard to check, since they only appeared once per 12 hour period. The "pop-unders" are still there, you'll see only one per 24 hour period though. I wish I was just rich, so I didn't need to get any revenue from the site to cover expenses.

Re: Beachcats.com site [Re: Damon Linkous] #25308
10/26/03 04:14 PM
10/26/03 04:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 545
Brighton, UK
grob Offline
addict
grob  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 545
Brighton, UK
Damon,

Can't remember what page I saw it on, but I only visited four so I will email them to you off forum. Although when I went back to them I didn't get the ads again. I guess these ads are generated randomly. Also I haven't experienced any "spyware" for some time.

Getting back to the original subject of this thread I wouldn't have thought that a sunfish or laser rig would be strong enough to take the righting moment generated by a cat without some modification. Which is probably why the lee hull was designed to sink (i.e. before the mast broke)

All the best

Gareth

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