Mike,

As an outdoor guide and a former member of an Idaho Mountain Rescue team, the idea of not expecting help/rescue resonates with me. I agree with what you said above. An assessment of risk and the decision to go vs. no-go should be made from the standpoint of one's own skills/resources to get out of any potential situation without outside assistance. Not to say that one should not carry the necessary signalling gear. I wouldn't go out without it, but the availability of such gadgets should not play into the decision making process.

Maugan17,

Why don't you contact Performance and Hobie directly and ask them the maximum wind conditions the rigs on boats like the H-20, I-20, Nacras, and F-18 boats (not the platform) are designed for. I'm sure they will tell you the optimum conditions are 10-15 knots and to stay off the water in anything over 22-25 knots. The Tornado and A-Class have wind maximums of 22 knots for racing because people and boats get damaged in higher winds.

Your car analogy is not a good one because without speed limits, idiots that have no business driving fast would be killing themselves and others. The comparison a previous poster used that cat sailors who push the limits in their boats are like Neil Armstrong or Chuck Yeager is also ridiculous. Beach cats are pleasure craft, not military or scientific vehicles. No redeeming social value is going to come out of someone making a poor decision that puts himself and others in danger or potentially makes his wife and kids a widow or orphans so he can satisfy his "need for speed".

If you must sail in +30 knot winds, either get a sailboard or build a high wind rig for your beach cat that is sized for the conditions. Doesn't it make sense that as the wind comes up, the sailboard and kite guys go faster and faster with smaller sails?????

Sail safe, sail smart.

Bob Hodges
A-Class USA 147

About the speed limit analogy - Highways are often designed for a speed greater than the posted speed, and (in the US at least) the design vehicle is a mid-50s car which manuvers and stops much more poorly than a modern car. This is kind of a problem, as people can sense that their car is capable of safely exceeding the speed limit, and thus they do. The closest thing still made to the "design vehicle" is a dump truck, and lots of small highway agencies post curves based on how much their dump trucks sway when going around them.

I won't say those fellers seem young and stupid, but they make me feel old and wise by comparison.

I've spoken to the Coast Guard unit that handled the rescue and updated the story with some details from that end, and added the Coast Guard press release to the story.
Catamaran sailors rescued off Virginia Beach story.

I quoted this from the Beachcats site. I'm sorry but there's still something to this whole story that makes me go HURRAAAAY! instead of mumbling 'dumbass'.

Jake,
I think that we all say Hurray that they made out of the situation OK and we can sit here and Armchair QB the ordeal. You have to admit on some level deep down that a little more planning other that a cell phone and flares , was not the best plan. Even though that's what ulitmately saved them.
Having lived here in Va Beach my whole life, this kind of stuff happens a least once every two or three years, and usually has a sad story attached to it. So for now let's cheer that they were OK, but hope they hear "don't be a Dumass and Leave this Beach" the next time they think of leaving the beach with those conditions in front of them.

Anyway, just my .01 worth!
Doug W

A local TV Station ran a story, here it is!!
You Paid for This? Rescue of Sailors Attempting Trip in Gale Force Winds

Thats F'ing ridiculous. Those helicopters fly around doing jack sh*t every summer day guzzling down copious amounts of jet fuel doing nothing other than getting an aerial view of the thong-clad beauties.

GOD FORBID if they actually used that money towards its intended purpose.

Believe me, if taxpayers want to whine about fiscial inproprieties, there are bigger cash cows to be hunting than the coasties and this incident.

Maugan, you're right. One rescue is just a drop in the bucket, so I think we should capitalize on it. As "they" say, "any publicity is good publicity." Maybe these guys have inadvertently shown the way to getting more TV air time for multihulls. Did the TV station have video footage with the rescue? For future rescues, we have to make sure they are done in the daytime and that the media is alerted in plenty of time to get out there with their own copters for photo ops. It will help get the word out about how much fun catamarans are.
And if they spend $400,000,000 on rescues, why should monohulls and powerboats get the benefit of the publicity for the bulk of those rescues? We need to get our fair share.

I think I'm going to team up with the MauganH17 side of this little debate and I've also got the flak jacket on. It seems like these guys knew what they were doing as they have been called "experienced" on a number of times. Let's think what would have happened had their daggerboards not broken, well they probably would have got back to the beach and had a great time telling everyone how "gnarly" they were out there. It just so happened that their gear broke, obviously something that they would not be expecting. At least they had the sense taking out flares with them and a cell phone, just think how many people go out sailing without them.

To say that they are idiots for pushing the boundaries, well that's just crazy. Agreed, they are not helping science or any of the other things that had been said about the astronaught analogy, however what about explorers, mountaineers, etc. Do we call Shackleton an idiot for failing to reach the South Pole? No we celebrate that he survived even when his ship was trapped and sunk in the ice. We even celebrate those who actually die in these sort of things, not dance on their graves singing "who's the idiot". These sort of recreational "accidents" happen all the time and are used as a springboard for manufacturers to improve their equipment that helps all of us in the long run.

As for putting the coast guard at risk, well that's also crazy. These guys sign up for the job they do. Not sure how it is in the States, but in the UK where I come from, the RNLI (same as the coastguard) is staffed by volunteers and they turn a lot of people away from joining. This shows that the people who do these jobs activily want to do them and know and accept the risks involved. And as for the costs, well to be honest it's not that much when you consider the annual budget. The budget would be spent in any event on training even if they didn't ever go out on a rescue in a year. It's just part of life.

I could agree with Maugan on the theory that it gives the Coast Guard some practice if the rescue were happening on one of those clear, lazy days of summer when nothing else is happening. But where I come from, during periods of extreme weather the Coast Guard is kept plenty busy rescuing people whose boats are sinking, and they don't take kindly to having to divert equipment and personnel for rescues of people who went on the water for frivolous reasons.

During our 13th Annual Steeplechase, when a strong weather system arrived hours earlier than forecast, most of the fleet was wiped out and searches were under way by the Coast Guard, the Marine Patrol and the Sheriff's Department for two crews who had become separated from their boats.

Everyone was eventually safe and accounted for, but it was a pretty hairy day. Just prior to the awards being presented for the race, we received visits by and lectures from, in quick succession, the Coast Guard, the Marine Patrol, and the Sheriff's Department. Nobody said anything about being grateful for the chance to practice rescue skills. On the contrary, they threatened to cite all the sailors and confiscate their boats for something to do with "frivolous" and "reckless."

It's all well and good to admire these 5.2 sailors for exercising their right to go on the water at their own risk. But you know how the government works -- if we don't exercise common sense to protect ourselves from disaster, the government will enact a law that says we can't leave the beach when the wind is over X knots or the surf is over X feet high, or whatever. They will think they have to protect us from ourselves. And then we will no longer have the right to go on the water at our own risk.

This is not the type of coverage the sport needs. It is already hard enough to get a permit from the city of Va Beach, I hope this recent buzz over the incident does not generate future obstacles on permit issues.

On another note, sailing in 30+ winds does not make you an experienced sailor. There is *so* much more skill and knowledge invloved than just being young and taking risks.

Tracie

sailing in 30 knot winds makes me experienced... in sailing in 30 knot winds.

If you think we're getting bad PR, then you should clip some articles about Kiteboarding. At least we don't have the "Extreme Sport" mantra associated with that group of darwinist candidates.

Okay, Maugan, I'll bite. How many times have you sailed in 30-knot winds on your Hobie 17?

P.S. And those Darwinist candidates on the kite boards are probably just looking for a thrill -- isn't that what you said you are looking for?

I wasn't exactly keeping track of time. But I'd say a good 6 hours total. I never said I was an expert :P

we don't get 30 knots here on a regular basis.

Also, I've sailed in 20-25 quite frequently.

whyfore the biting remark? You think I'm baiting you guys?

Maugan. There's no "guys"; just me. I was just wondering how many hours someone must sail in 30-knot winds ON A BEACH CAT to achieve the status of being "experienced."

Well if you are referring to my response to tracie... I'm not necessarily talking about myself. I just used "I" as a nonspecified pronoun. I should have stated it better:

"He who has has sailed in 30 knot winds can say he's experienced in 30 knot winds"

Where he =/= MoogieH17

Nah, I'd say "He who has has sailed in 30 knot winds can say he's had experiences in sailing in 30 knot winds".
I've sailed in 30 plus, would I say that I am *experienced* in sailing in 30+ ? Not a chance. I've certainly experinced it though. Big difference.

Tracie

It is time to raise one´s voice…

1. I am government paid – in the Navy since 21 years, captain on board of 3 naval ships
2. I am a Hobie sailor since more than 20 years and yes, I am experienced
3. I am living in Virginia Beach

I think that you are showing a lot of disrespect for those guys who are there to help you.

Maugan 17/ Mary: Have you ever thought what someone from government organisations has to risk to go after “experienced sailors”.
They don´t go out for fun, even if the skies are fine, they have to train new crews. Or do you want a helo pilot out there for the first time in 45 knots of wind or a captain on his 20.000 hp naval ship that has never faced those breakers?

I have been involved in numerous incidents SAR missions to search for “experienced sailors” . Not more than once was it life risking. I was always relieved when I got home with my crew uninjured. What should I have told their wives and kids, if I returned. “We had to go after “Some experienced sailors”??” or what?

If you were experienced, you would have never gone out that day!
The forecast was indicating rough conditions. These experienced guys were going out alone! Without company! In those conditions!

This incident should be a lesson for all those “experienced sailors”, they are no heroes like the man on the moon or whatever!

Fritz-R. Klocke

I'll bite on this one. After serving 9 years in the Army, both Special Forces and other units I found that the act of training is not always training for the real thing and the real thing is why we train. I know many people in who trained for 30 years with Special Forces in Guard units, only to be told they can't go to Afganistan, even when they voluteered. For that very reason I got out. I should have joined the CG, they have real life missions. Yes its dangerous, but those that do it, do it because they love it, not for the money. I suspect its entirely voluteer. Now I am not saying that these two should have gone out that day, don't get me wrong. I think they were wrong, but I have been out with fleets that raced in 20-25 with gust to higher, and most recently Sail For Hope in Newport when the weather was really going to [censored]. But then that is fleet racing and there is something different about that than two hooligans going out on on their own, or is it?