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#274358 - 08/01/14 06:40 AM Re: 1182 ......'Twice Shy' [Re: Pirate]  
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about the only crappy looking part of the boat is the front beam, years of stone chips, general wear n tear, and undoutably some abuse thrown in....
its time for a clean up smile

[Linked Image]


Yar, & this ere post be done without a sin'le drop o' rum passin' me lips

Kingy
started with Impara Cadet #3 / Mosquito #245
& now Mosquitos #1182 & #1740

-- Have You Seen This? --
#274359 - 08/01/14 06:53 AM Re: 1182 ......'Twice Shy' [Re: Pirate]  
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and, from this thread Beams discussion , I decided to radius the front beam, & I now know this is something that will be the first job thats happening to Karps new beams


Certainly a much user friendly finish and looks much better too, although the weight savings isn't anything to brag about sick

[Linked Image]

60grit flap-disc on a 4" grinder, took all of 15mins to do the beam whilst on the boat AND with newly painted decks laying too close for comfort, once the basic shape was done I hit it with 120grit paper on the block and then 180 grit paper. the hand sanding took about the same time as the basic shaping with the grinder.
I'll block back the primer tomorrow morning and with any luck the arctic blast we're currently experiencing will have largely passed enough for the color to be applied......

color is >>>>>>>>> got any blacker, I want it to match my skull and cross-bones

grin


Yar, & this ere post be done without a sin'le drop o' rum passin' me lips

Kingy
started with Impara Cadet #3 / Mosquito #245
& now Mosquitos #1182 & #1740

#274372 - 08/02/14 04:02 AM Re: 1182 ......'Twice Shy' [Re: Pirate]  
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add some Jet Black acrylic paint .....

[Linked Image]


remove the masking tape and paper.....

[Linked Image]


and your have pure sex..... grin

[Linked Image]


all that's left to do is re-string the tramp and kicker straps, refit the trap shock cord, and then its onto that pesky traveller beam (still waiting on bolts and rivets mad )


Yar, & this ere post be done without a sin'le drop o' rum passin' me lips

Kingy
started with Impara Cadet #3 / Mosquito #245
& now Mosquitos #1182 & #1740

#275614 - 09/27/14 08:02 AM Re: 1182 ......'Twice Shy' [Re: Pirate]  
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right..... where was I ..... crazy

oh yeah.... the rear beam grin


As you can see in the pic the traveller track is raised at the ends to clear the bolts that hold the beam to the actual hull, simple enough I guess but other than the looks it does have one major drawback
The main sheet constantly gets hooked in the gap between the traveller rail and the beam
mad

[Linked Image]


Yar, & this ere post be done without a sin'le drop o' rum passin' me lips

Kingy
started with Impara Cadet #3 / Mosquito #245
& now Mosquitos #1182 & #1740

#275615 - 09/27/14 08:06 AM Re: 1182 ......'Twice Shy' [Re: Pirate]  
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What I want is this.....

[Linked Image]

the rail flush on the beam
wink
just gotta trim a few things up, change the beam bolts around and then put it all together
smile


Yar, & this ere post be done without a sin'le drop o' rum passin' me lips

Kingy
started with Impara Cadet #3 / Mosquito #245
& now Mosquitos #1182 & #1740

#275616 - 09/27/14 08:07 AM Re: 1182 ......'Twice Shy' [Re: Pirate]  
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the new rear beam bolt and 'washer' on the left with the old long bolt and alloy bar on the right

[Linked Image]


Yar, & this ere post be done without a sin'le drop o' rum passin' me lips

Kingy
started with Impara Cadet #3 / Mosquito #245
& now Mosquitos #1182 & #1740

#275617 - 09/27/14 08:11 AM Re: 1182 ......'Twice Shy' [Re: Pirate]  
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the nuts tig welded to a plate and slipped up the tube, bolt then screwed into place

[Linked Image]


Yar, & this ere post be done without a sin'le drop o' rum passin' me lips

Kingy
started with Impara Cadet #3 / Mosquito #245
& now Mosquitos #1182 & #1740

#275618 - 09/27/14 08:23 AM Re: 1182 ......'Twice Shy' [Re: Pirate]  
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the plie of removed stainless & alloy bits from the rear bean setup and traveller so far....

[Linked Image]

none of this stuff is going back in
(obviously the pop-rivet and drill bit on the left are not included)
wink

the rear beam is now bolted back up and I've started working out the mods for the traveller beam....
wink


Yar, & this ere post be done without a sin'le drop o' rum passin' me lips

Kingy
started with Impara Cadet #3 / Mosquito #245
& now Mosquitos #1182 & #1740

#275630 - 09/28/14 06:54 PM Re: 1182 ......'Twice Shy' [Re: Pirate]  
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Why the nuts inside beam, why not in hull, and bolt head in beam, the flusher you are in beam you can use the space to a spare tiller. How are you mounting on the traveler track? Hope not rivets, they don't last.

#275632 - 09/29/14 04:55 AM Re: 1182 ......'Twice Shy' [Re: Matt_Stone]  
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The beam is well and truly siliconed in place from way back when it was probably first assembled, so splitting the beam away from the hull really was going to be a major PITA..... and I couldn't see why I needed to disturb it.

That meant I couldn't feed the bolt through the beam and then down the hole that easily.... went with the easy option of bolt up through the timber and thread and nut in the beam.
If in the future I have to drop the beams of then yes I'd put the bolt head inside the alloy beam as you've suggested
wink


As for the traveller track.....
I have a couple of attachment ideas

option 1
The old self tappers stainless screws held quite well over the years but they created a corrosion issue, sure that took ~30years to corrode the anodising away and a slight pitting around the screw hole so it would be safe to say that the screws would last another 10years of trouble free work.... maybe confused

option 2
rivets....
shocked

option 3
tig weld it
grin


then the grey matter started grumbling around and I ended up with a combination that will do for the time being (read I'm low on argon gas and don't have enough left for that amount or tig work wink )

So I dragged out the trusty old riveter, looked long n hard at the 30mm grip rivets I have, had a gander at the countersunk hole in the track and decided I know exactly why the rivets come loose....

lathe time grin

Obviously, one needs countersunk pop-rivets if one is going to put them in a countersunk hole because if you use pan head rivets in a countersunk hole then its only the very outer part of the rivet head that is gripping, the actual throat of the rivet is doing diddly-squat and its the throat that does the work and its there where the max strength of a rivet exists !

meanwhile back at the lathe.....
an anvil and a drift has been machined up to suit the pop-rivet, the anvil will form the underside of the pan head into a countersunk shape while the drift will be the forcing point and will also flatten the pan head out flat .....

and hey presto (actually 40mins later), countersunk 30mm pop-rivets are being fitted
grin
I've also put a stainless countersunk nut n bolt assembly at each end for the shock loading factor on that wild gybe wink

The track has also been rounded off on each end so its now not only sheet snaring free but far more wetsuit friendly aswell

If or when the rivets begin to loosen up then I'll just save time.... clamp it down and tig it in place
smile


Yar, & this ere post be done without a sin'le drop o' rum passin' me lips

Kingy
started with Impara Cadet #3 / Mosquito #245
& now Mosquitos #1182 & #1740

#275648 - 09/29/14 06:57 PM Re: 1182 ......'Twice Shy' [Re: Pirate]  
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why not the option of drill and tap 5mm metal threads? I have used pop rivets in the past and have torn the whole track off and that was MK1,. I hate to see 2 up cos that's a lot of force.
Self tapers should not be used in metal or in the marine trade. They are not reliable. the heads break off and when you want to take them out the will break and you have to drill the out making a bigger hole. I deal with this crap everyday day.

Last edited by Matt_Stone; 09/29/14 06:58 PM.
#275653 - 09/29/14 10:16 PM Re: 1182 ......'Twice Shy' [Re: Pirate]  
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It would be way better, cheaper and quicker to just bolt them down with a nut and washer on the inside of the beam. I did two Mozzy traveller tracks a couple of years ago and they took about 30 minutes once I had the spanner taped at the right angle on the stick.


Jeff Southall
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
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#275682 - 09/30/14 06:52 PM Re: 1182 ......'Twice Shy' [Re: Pirate]  
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It is an over kill for nuts in beam but for extra safety

#275697 - 10/01/14 07:33 AM Re: 1182 ......'Twice Shy' [Re: Matt_Stone]  
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Originally Posted by Matt_Stone
why not the option of drill and tap 5mm metal threads? I have used pop rivets in the past and have torn the whole track off and that was MK1,. I hate to see 2 up cos that's a lot of force.
Self tapers should not be used in metal or in the marine trade. They are not reliable. the heads break off and when you want to take them out the will break and you have to drill the out making a bigger hole. I deal with this crap everyday day.


couple of reasons....

1/ don't have the countersunk 'bolts' on hand

2/ don't have a 'tap' that small, the smallest taps I have is 8mm or 5/16th Whitworth.... = overkill eek


agree on the self tappers, the odd one is after all the years the track has been screwed to beam only 3 have broken.... the 3 that actually bent and subsequently cracked the track.
All the other self tappers were in good condition and came out without any major dramas or effort although there is some corrosion of the alloy adjacent to the holes in the beam.


At the moment as far as the rivets go, I'm happy to do the try it and see how she goes. And as I've said I think most of the issues with the rivets is a pan head in a countersunk hole..... time will tell
wink


Yar, & this ere post be done without a sin'le drop o' rum passin' me lips

Kingy
started with Impara Cadet #3 / Mosquito #245
& now Mosquitos #1182 & #1740

#275699 - 10/01/14 07:42 AM Re: 1182 ......'Twice Shy' [Re: JeffS]  
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Originally Posted by JeffS
It would be way better, cheaper and quicker to just bolt them down with a nut and washer on the inside of the beam. I did two Mozzy traveller tracks a couple of years ago and they took about 30 minutes once I had the spanner taped at the right angle on the stick.


Jurassic Karp has that exact system...... and when I looked at it I thought .....
wow !!! someone had a heap of time and perseverance to play with, ... that's gunna be bytch to replace shocked mad shocked

and with a new front and rear beam sitting there all wrapped in plastic awaiting to be setup, I guess I'll find out just how ugly a job it might be
sick

first job => uninstall the track from the old beam
2nd job => fit track to new beam

I hope your right..... 30 mins each way sounds good
grin


Yar, & this ere post be done without a sin'le drop o' rum passin' me lips

Kingy
started with Impara Cadet #3 / Mosquito #245
& now Mosquitos #1182 & #1740

#275700 - 10/01/14 07:44 AM Re: 1182 ......'Twice Shy' [Re: Pirate]  
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end result....

[Linked Image]


Yar, & this ere post be done without a sin'le drop o' rum passin' me lips

Kingy
started with Impara Cadet #3 / Mosquito #245
& now Mosquitos #1182 & #1740

#275800 - 10/11/14 06:46 AM Re: 1182 ......'Twice Shy' [Re: Pirate]  
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Seems everything is shipshape and ready to go tomorrow grin

better do a final check..... wink


Ever have one of those days when no matter what or how you do something it gets fugly in around 2.3 billiseconds, yep I was having one
cry


First up
the boat is NOT a work bench, but apparently son number 2 thinks otherwise, and there is junk everywhere from his last ellevenity billion projects.....
mutter mutter mutter mad
2 hours wasted cleaning up after him frown

Next was to check the gear in the sail box, all that stuff I'd put in there shortly after the sail box was constructed, and promptly forgotten all about
blush

1st up was the traveller rope, don't remember why or how it ended up in there .....ahhhh yeah... its shot and needs replacing, kewl, I can do that !!!
IF I COULD FIND THE SPARE ROPE I HAD..... mad ...
20mins later and son number 4 comes in the shed with the now not so new rope "eies did neebs it poor da ubby-ouse wadder"
What else did you need for the cubby-house ladder ??
errrr, bats orl

so the now mud covered rope gets washed and the myriad of 4yearolds knots are un-done and its finally fitted
tired


Next was the rudder's and cases....
oh yeah, that crack that I'd completely forgotten all about, and the fibreglass hold down rods that are shattered.
mmmm my usual trick of slipping some heat shrink tube over it goes straight out the door.... Son 1 has helped himself to my supply for his amp install in his car...
better glass in some new rods then, thankfully I'd hidden them well so it was going to be an easy fix
wink
Right about then I started thinking (dangerous thing to do at the last minute I've since been reminded), if I cut that off, change that, tig that to that & that bit to those bits, pop em in the lathe, and rivet the left one on the right side and the right side onto the left.... 5hours later and I have an entirely new rudder lock down system
grin
and the new rods have also been resined in, tomorrow we test it crazy
mental note to self -> take the tools you might need to fine tune it -> if it works laugh IE: zip-ties and grey tape if it doesn't grin


ok, better have a look at the cracked rudder....
and an hour later its been fixed and the resin has started to cure nicely (yep one HOT mix = running out of time here fast)

sweet
jut one more quick check

ummm where's the ockey-cord for the trap ????
& more importantly, why isn't it where I put it eek

more time spent (wasted) on searching for nothing, its not here !
anger management time => one STRONG coffee (and watch a bit of Bathurst car racing.... except the TV decides that for reasons known only to it that the channel the racing is on has a bad signal and the picture that is there is pixilated and constantly freezing.... commentary is good tho, if only I could see what they are talking about
mad

As it turns out the break was just what I needed and on my stroll back to the shed I spot the ockey-cord... not where I would have put it and certainly NOT there when I went for a coffee
&
its now in 2 pieces mad
Son 3 wanders in and asks if I'd found the cordy stuff , yep he's guilty as
smirk

Hunt through Karp's spares box and sadly I'm cutting up Karps new ocky-cord, atleast son 3 didn't loose the plastic snap hooks, and so now we have a trap again.


Right... the final final over it final check mad

in 12 hours time we'll be on the water


hopefully

blush



& I'll do some pics later
tired


Yar, & this ere post be done without a sin'le drop o' rum passin' me lips

Kingy
started with Impara Cadet #3 / Mosquito #245
& now Mosquitos #1182 & #1740

#275805 - 10/13/14 06:35 AM Re: 1182 ......'Twice Shy' [Re: Pirate]  
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Originally Posted by Pirate
5hours later and I have an entirely new rudder lock down system



Hey presto grin

As you can see I've made a LOT of changes over the old system I had wink


rudder locked down....
[Linked Image]

and with the rudder up

[Linked Image]


The best part is they now self release when they are put under a reasonable load, a screaming broard reach wasn't enough to 'pop' the release yesterday but each time I came into the beach and as soon as the bottom lurked near the bottom they popped out instantly
I had every intention of this mod way back when I'd finished the first trial set that did a heavy half season workout, they did lock down well and wold come up to just past 45degrees which was usually enough to send the seaweed off down and away .... Problem was, as I found the hard way, the seaweed clumps that built up on the centre board and then get released by the crew would smash into the rudder with such force it often just shattered the fibreglass rods, then as you grabbed the lockdown to release it so the weed cold be freed yo got stabbed y the shards of splintered glass
cry
so a better system HAD to happen
cool





and for the really observant, something major is missing in one of the pics

smirk


Yar, & this ere post be done without a sin'le drop o' rum passin' me lips

Kingy
started with Impara Cadet #3 / Mosquito #245
& now Mosquitos #1182 & #1740

#275807 - 10/13/14 06:54 AM Re: 1182 ......'Twice Shy' [Re: Pirate]  
Joined: Apr 2013
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Pirate Offline
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Victoria Australia
During the 3rd race I may have hit the Loch Ness Monster....
Around the mark, out on the trap, reef the main in a bit ....
and suddenly the boat stops dead (I kept goin tho = OUCH !!)
collected the shroud and god only knows what else as I flew around the deck, various bruises and bits of blood from unknown boat parts
then just as sudden as it happened we were going again...

then the stb rudder ) 'pops'
crazy


lay off the main and the wind, let the traveller right off....

pull the stb centreboard ..... nothing wrong there... arm into the water and 'feel' the case slot... all good grin

better just check the port side....

port centreboard eek


[Linked Image]


afternoon tea time and I now have time (and land) to do a full check.....
other than the centreboard..... everything is sweet


Yar, & this ere post be done without a sin'le drop o' rum passin' me lips

Kingy
started with Impara Cadet #3 / Mosquito #245
& now Mosquitos #1182 & #1740

#275808 - 10/13/14 07:06 AM Re: 1182 ......'Twice Shy' [Re: Pirate]  
Joined: Apr 2013
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Pirate Offline
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Pirate  Offline
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Victoria Australia
Originally Posted by Pirate
ok, better have a look at the cracked rudder....
and an hour later its been fixed



Well it is fixed.... or should I say.... was !!! shocked


[Linked Image]

Final sprint race for the day..... one leg to do....& I'm catchin Al grin
and for no reason at all the stb rudder lets go



I think whats happened is I've struck some submerged object and the port centreboard has copped it big time, as I've done the 2.5 barrel twists in the pike position on the trap the boat has moved to the lee and that hidden object has pinged the stb rudder, the full failure was going to happen and as it was I atleast got another 1 and a half races out of it wink

So....


who's got a spare pair they are willing to donate
blush


Yar, & this ere post be done without a sin'le drop o' rum passin' me lips

Kingy
started with Impara Cadet #3 / Mosquito #245
& now Mosquitos #1182 & #1740

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