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#272902 - 05/30/14 03:15 AM Downhaul  
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10
Dan05 Offline
stranger
Dan05  Offline
stranger

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10
Hi All

Would be interested to see what downhaul systems and ratio people are using. A couple of components of mine are getting near the end of their life, so I'm considering upgrading and want to see if i should make any changes to my setup.

Cheers
Dan

-- Have You Seen This? --
#272903 - 05/30/14 04:01 AM Re: Downhaul [Re: Dan05]  
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,632
stillbitten Offline
Pooh-Bah
stillbitten  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,632
Gippsland Lakes Victoria Aust...
Hi Dan,

If you are using a radial cut mylar sail, 8 to 1 or more is generaly considered to be essential. Realy depends on efficency of the pulleys as to if it's enough.

6 to 1 is generaly enough for a Dacron sail.


Regards Gary.
Mosquito 1830
All opions expressed in this post are mine and mine alone, no assumptions should be made regarding any Associations or Clubs I may be a member of.
#272925 - 05/30/14 06:05 PM Re: Downhaul [Re: Dan05]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 416
Matt_Stone Offline
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Matt_Stone  Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 416
i use a 6:1 but changing to 8:1 very soon

#272937 - 05/31/14 05:02 AM Re: Downhaul [Re: Matt_Stone]  
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,632
stillbitten Offline
Pooh-Bah
stillbitten  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,632
Gippsland Lakes Victoria Aust...
Come to think of it, I probably should have said the weight on the boat makes a difference also. confused

Generaly the lighter you are the quicker you need to de power and the more you need to pull on to get the sail flat. Heavier crew weight will bend the mast due to increased righting moment which flattens the sail without downhaul. whistle

So sloops and heavweight crews on cat rigs can probably get away with less than 8 to 1 on a radial cut Mylar sail, but not the light weights, be interesting to see if Matt does better in the heavy winds once he goes 8 to 1. sleep


Regards Gary.
Mosquito 1830
All opions expressed in this post are mine and mine alone, no assumptions should be made regarding any Associations or Clubs I may be a member of.
#272949 - 05/31/14 06:30 PM Re: Downhaul [Re: Dan05]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 586
Dazz Offline
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Dazz  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 586
Hobart, Tasmania, Oz.
http://www.catsailor.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=112248&page=4

i set the 8:1 version on the maricat. worked very well, low friction and was cheap as chips.


C2 AUS 222 by Goodall design
"Darph Bobo"
#280774 - 10/12/15 05:06 AM Re: Downhaul [Re: Dan05]  
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 88
Matthew Dawson Offline
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Matthew Dawson  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 88
Has anyone tried an 'under tramp' system (like the Viper) on a Mosquito?

Would it work? Are Mosquito tramps closer to the water than Vipers?

I am wondering about whether to try an under tramp cascaded system on my Cobra. My 15 yo daughter is my crew and she has trouble pulling on an 8:1 ...

A cascading system like the one in the above link (Typhoon - internal in the mast) is pretty cheap to set up and is 12:1

Thoughts?


Cobra 570
Cobra 581
Mosquito 126
Arafura Cadet 738
#280777 - 10/12/15 03:57 PM Re: Downhaul [Re: Dan05]  
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 81
Sixth Element Offline
journeyman
Sixth Element  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 81
To windward of you!
HI Matthew
no one I know of has does an under tramp set up on a Mossie.

The mossie tramp and I would presume cobra tramps are a lot closer to the water than Vipers a lot less free board with the mossie.

We run 12:1 internal on the mossie so my crew can still pull it on when it gets windy.


"Sixth Element"
1782 MK2 w/spinnaker.
Lake Bonney Y.C.
National Sec. / S.A President / S.A Measurer / Commodore LBYC
#280780 - 10/13/15 03:51 AM Re: Downhaul [Re: Dan05]  
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 88
Matthew Dawson Offline
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Matthew Dawson  Offline
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Posts: 88
Thanks SE. Yes I am wondering about how low they are in the water.

Last edited by Matthew Dawson; 10/13/15 05:14 AM.

Cobra 570
Cobra 581
Mosquito 126
Arafura Cadet 738
#280782 - 10/13/15 04:39 AM Re: Downhaul [Re: Sixth Element]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 416
Matt_Stone Offline
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Matt_Stone  Offline
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Posts: 416
I have tried it under the tramp. Pain in the butt. If you have elastic on the end its hard to grab it in a hurry and release it as the elastic is pulling against you. Also another problem that the elastic pulls the cunno on if tight on one side.

So no i don't have it under the tramp. I have an external 8:1.


#280783 - 10/13/15 05:12 AM Re: Downhaul [Re: Dan05]  
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 88
Matthew Dawson Offline
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Matthew Dawson  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 88
Good to hear someone has tried it. Thanks for sharing Matt.

Last edited by Matthew Dawson; 10/13/15 05:13 AM.

Cobra 570
Cobra 581
Mosquito 126
Arafura Cadet 738
#280784 - 10/13/15 05:18 AM Re: Downhaul [Re: Sixth Element]  
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 88
Matthew Dawson Offline
journeyman
Matthew Dawson  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 88
Originally Posted by Sixth Element


We run 12:1 internal on the mossie so my crew can still pull it on when it gets windy.


Can you share some details of your internal system? Layout of blocks? Mast attachment? Length of internal system? Photos would be great too if you have any. I don't think many Mossies or Cobras have internal systems so it would be good to learn more.


Cobra 570
Cobra 581
Mosquito 126
Arafura Cadet 738
#280785 - 10/13/15 06:19 AM Re: Downhaul [Re: Matthew Dawson]  
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 858
Pirate Offline
old hand
Pirate  Offline
old hand

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 858
Victoria Australia
I have an external 8:1 setup and it uses 20m double blocks (1 either side of the boom), a 30mm single check block at the Mast base and 2 20mm check blocks attatched to the mast's sides and then down through a swivel cleat...

[Linked Image]

My question is a simple one......

Are the 20mm blocks good enough ?
Been thinking of going to 30mm blocks all round and if I can get one a larger swivelling cleat.... main reason for this is the sheave housing in the cleat is almost failing under heavy load, I'm not 100% game to really heave it down as far as I know it should go incase it does let go

so what block sizes are most running ???

Kingy


Yar, & this ere post be done without a sin'le drop o' rum passin' me lips

Kingy
started with Impara Cadet #3 / Mosquito #245
& now Mosquitos #1182 & #1740

#280787 - 10/13/15 06:50 AM Re: Downhaul [Re: Dan05]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 416
Matt_Stone Offline
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Matt_Stone  Offline
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Posts: 416
Hi All

i use and many others in the mossie fleet use 20 series blocks, Use Hi load blocks if possible.

I use the exact same as kingy exempt the one in the middle on the mast is 20 series. The cleats work fine. If not happy with cleats use different brand such as harken, Spin lock, riley, where some have metal s/s cleats and different designs.

I have been been using the ronstan RF5 for years using 8:1 in 30 knots.
If crew can't pull on rope make a handle at the end of the rope with a rubber tube with the rope through the tube

Matt

#280788 - 10/13/15 06:51 AM Re: Downhaul [Re: Dan05]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 416
Matt_Stone Offline
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Matt_Stone  Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 416
you guys need to come to the states and nationals to see the latest gismos.


#280789 - 10/13/15 07:05 AM Re: Downhaul [Re: Dan05]  
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Posts: 416
Matt_Stone Offline
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Matt_Stone  Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 416
just thinking, to go to 12:1 cunno theres something wrong with the set up of the rig. The cunno should be making the mast bend forward to stretch the sail. this won't happen with inline spreaders.
I use raked back spreaders 15mm forward of the mast track and with "27" on the loose gauge has already "prebend" in gthe mast. The sail has a luff curve and when gets windy the you need to stretch the curve out with cunno and outhaul.
To explain it well come to the states or nationals or any event where there is a mob of us and i will show you how stuff works, and the latest gismos as i have ready made parts for mossie cobra and arrow.

I nearly go to every event in vic and exploring interstate (wildcat regatta, Great lakes NSW)
I just gave Brett and dave from QLD some lessons on rig set up.

There is also a tuning guide on the Mossie website.

Matt

#280798 - 10/13/15 09:49 PM Re: Downhaul [Re: Dan05]  
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 81
Sixth Element Offline
journeyman
Sixth Element  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 81
To windward of you!
HI Matthew,

the internal system we use is basically the A class internal system. send me an email if you want the drawings we used (pjd001@hotmail.com). it all fits but its pretty tight inside the mast. Ill try and remember to take some photos of my mast on weekend when I see my boat (its 250km away)

nothing wrong with my rig set up Matt Stone! downhaul does its job just 12:1 makes its shitload easier for Kirst in 20plus.

I do agree with Matt though best way to see what is working on boat is to get the class events and speak with everyone.

Last edited by Sixth Element; 10/13/15 09:51 PM.

"Sixth Element"
1782 MK2 w/spinnaker.
Lake Bonney Y.C.
National Sec. / S.A President / S.A Measurer / Commodore LBYC
#280799 - 10/14/15 03:45 AM Re: Downhaul [Re: Dan05]  
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 88
Matthew Dawson Offline
journeyman
Matthew Dawson  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 88
Thanks for all the responses. Thanks for the photo Kingy.

Just one thing ... just because I am asking questions it doesn't mean I don't sail at regattas. I don't sail at my club regularly because it's hard with 5 teenage kids at home and the club (Parkdale) is 90 minutes from home. I have joined a club closer to home (Torquay) this year so I can sail more.

I have sailed in every Cobra national titles since 2008/2009 in VIC, SA, NSW and QLD. I have also sailed in all but one state titles in the same period.

I have introduced all of my five children to sailing. One daughter has competed in all those national titles with me and is the current state champ as crew for someone else (while I was encouraging another daughter to sail with me). Another daughter has crewed for a friend from SA for the past two Nat and state champs. Both girls sailed Vipers at the Goodall training program in Geelong in September. I am rebuilding an Arafura Cadet to encourage the two boys to join the fun.

Typically I don't have as much time as I would like to have to catch up with other sailors on the beach. That's why I ask questions on this forum. This is what works for me ... I understand that it doesn't work for everyone.

Matt you are really helpful but just saying 'come down and I will show you' doesn't work for me. Don't get me wrong - I really appreciate (and regularly review) your advice.

I would love to come and sail at Somers again sometime (where I sailed every weekend as a teenager in the 1980's on an Elwood Jnr and the first Somers Tornado).

I last said g'day to you at a Torquay Australia Day regatta a few years ago, but with the family in tow there was not time to have a good chat.

Perhaps I will see some of you at the VIC cat champs in November.

smile




Cobra 570
Cobra 581
Mosquito 126
Arafura Cadet 738
#280833 - 10/19/15 06:19 AM Re: Downhaul [Re: Matthew Dawson]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 73
Rebel without a Clew Offline
journeyman
Rebel without a Clew  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 73
McLaren Vale, SA
Right......I only have 6 to 1 downhaul.....I just pull it till my nose bleeds!..obviously I need more.
Roy
Rebel Without a Clew.


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