Forum Index |  Albums |  Classified Ads |  Catamarans For Sale |  Calendar |  Submit Events
Announcements
New Discussions
WildCat Regatta Nov 4 - 5, Lake Eustis, FL
by David Ingram. 10/15/17 10:16 AM
Indian Summer Regatta, Lake Waccamaw, NC
by Isotope235. 10/12/17 09:10 AM
36th America's Cup
by Jake. 10/09/17 05:26 PM
NACRA 570
by Malcomz. 10/06/17 01:49 AM
Bearing size
by Malcomz. 10/05/17 02:20 AM
In Search of Hobie 21 SC
by Malcomz. 10/03/17 11:32 PM
F85SR Concept Boat
by phill. 09/30/17 06:19 AM
What is up with my rudders?
by Malcomz. 09/29/17 03:51 AM
--Advertisement--
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
#282343 - 04/05/16 06:16 AM Handicapping Clarification (Nacra 5.8)  
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 104
fast energy Offline
member
fast energy  Offline
member

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 104
gold coast
Hi All
i was sailing at southport on Saturday and had noticed that the Nacra 5.8 was sailing with a square top sails and i said that you would need more than a 8 to 1 main sheet to run this sail and they said that they now run a 10 to 1 all this improvement with no reduction in handicap.
So the question is can we change our boats to improve boat speed with no handicap reduction ?
Just my throughts


Brett Kelly
Fast Energy
Gold Coast
-- Have You Seen This? --
#282350 - 04/05/16 07:22 PM Re: Handicapping Clarification (Nacra 5.8) [Re: fast energy]  
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 3
Cat-titude Offline
stranger
Cat-titude  Offline
stranger

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 3
I don’t believe so, Brett.

The Yachting Victoria Yardsticks (which from my perspective should simply be adopted as the default Australian Yardsticks) operate on the basis of class-approved specifications / rules. By their own admission they have evolved to give Race Officers guidance in running fair racing amongst mixed-fleet competition. Indeed, they make mention of the ability for race officers to adopt “locally derived” yardsticks to accommodate variations in local conditions should these prove influential to fair sailing.

According to various websites, the Nacra 5.8 is a one-design class, with a pin-head sail identified within their standard specification. In an ideal world, competitors who have made modifications such as those you have observed would be up-front with the Race Officer responsible for any event being held, and an adjusted yardstick worked out (based upon other variations within classes identified within YV Yardstick) to accommodate fair sailing for all.

In the real world, I am sure Race Officers do not mind competitors making them aware of any such modifications within the fleet which have the potential to unfairly influence results.

Steve

#282353 - 04/06/16 05:25 AM Re: Handicapping Clarification (Nacra 5.8) [Re: fast energy]  
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 104
fast energy Offline
member
fast energy  Offline
member

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 104
gold coast
ok thanks steve
just through i might have mention this update but i sail against the nacra 5.8 in my club these 5.8 are fast with or with out the square top and there square top sails look good


Brett Kelly
Fast Energy
Gold Coast
#282354 - 04/06/16 05:47 AM Re: Handicapping Clarification (Nacra 5.8) [Re: fast energy]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,330
JeffS Offline
veteran
JeffS  Offline
veteran

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,330
Kingston SE South Australia
Square top sail is standard now in Aus, you can't order a pin head, the sail is the same size, its not a wingmast, there is still no boom so is not as easy as a boom with outhaul to shape so no change to handicap. Having said that i used mine for the first time last satuday on a 60km distance race in wind around 20kts, its awesome to sail with but I'm not sure I was any better than if I used a brand new Dacron sail. Lots of boats have changes that don't alter the handicap, the full carbon mozzy that I sail against sometimes doesn't get a lower handicap

Last edited by JeffS; 04/06/16 05:50 AM.

Jeff Southall
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Taipan 5.7 134
Mosquito 404
Arrow 1576
#282359 - 04/06/16 05:55 PM Re: Handicapping Clarification (Nacra 5.8) [Re: fast energy]  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Scarecrow
Unregistered


The full carbon Mossie is still constrained by minimum class weights so there is no reason for the yardstick not to be relevant.

I'm assuming the Brisbane Catamaran Centre and/or a class rep have contacted the VYC and advised them to the changes to class rules so the rating can be adjusted for next season. wink

#282360 - 04/06/16 06:28 PM Re: Handicapping Clarification (Nacra 5.8) [Re: fast energy]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 416
Matt_Stone Offline
addict
Matt_Stone  Offline
addict

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 416
There is no sailing advantage on carbon hulls. We have a min weight.

#282387 - 04/10/16 06:58 PM Re: Handicapping Clarification (Nacra 5.8) [Re: fast energy]  
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 50
drew_mac Offline
journeyman
drew_mac  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 50
Brisvegas | QLD

Interesting discussion.

A 16sq now has 80 with square top and a plus 1 point adjustment for pin head.

It would seem reasonable that same should apply to a 5.8.

Why change the sail if it has no advantage....?

Would be like rebuilding / repairing some hulls and then being disqualified...oh that is another discussion for that class...I feel for those people...

But it is ok to change the sail plan...but not the hull?

Really is moot though for us.

Mixed fleet sailing is always a crap shoot with handicaps.

So many variables depending on the conditions on the day.

Just have to sail and enjoy the sailing.


Drew....TOAST..1816....furr_ball..1635
#282388 - 04/10/16 08:15 PM Re: Handicapping Clarification (Nacra 5.8) [Re: drew_mac]  
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 943
Tim_Mozzie Offline
old hand
Tim_Mozzie  Offline
old hand

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 943
East Gippsland, Australia
Originally Posted by drew_mac

Mixed fleet sailing is always a crap shoot with handicaps.

So many variables depending on the conditions on the day.

Just have to sail and enjoy the sailing.


Exactly - spot-on Drew.

I would add that, from what I've seen the square top sail is adopted more for it's look than it's performance. Unless the boat is designed for it, the square top can be hell downwind on a windy day.


Tim Shepperd
Mosquito 1775
Karma Cat
#282389 - 04/11/16 01:55 AM Re: Handicapping Clarification (Nacra 5.8) [Re: fast energy]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 416
Matt_Stone Offline
addict
Matt_Stone  Offline
addict

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 416
i have heard from others that the square top is more forgiving sail than the pin head. Controls the boat more. Its not that much faster.

#282453 - 04/14/16 08:54 PM Re: Handicapping Clarification (Nacra 5.8) [Re: fast energy]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 586
Dazz Offline
addict
Dazz  Offline
addict

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 586
Hobart, Tasmania, Oz.
Jeff, would you mind taking a photo of your pin head and square top laid over the top of each other? I would be very surprised if the square top is not considerably bigger.

here is a photo of the nacra 5.0 sail, you can clearly see it is the same luff and foot length. the only real noticeable change is the addition or more sail cloth in the head of the sail.

Apparently the 5.0 is significantly more powered up and is much faster off the breeze.


Attached Files
nacra 5.0.jpg (158 downloads)

C2 AUS 222 by Goodall design
"Darph Bobo"
#282454 - 04/15/16 07:56 AM Re: Handicapping Clarification (Nacra 5.8) [Re: fast energy]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,330
JeffS Offline
veteran
JeffS  Offline
veteran

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,330
Kingston SE South Australia
New 5.8 sail is exactly the same area, it is very different to sail with, for instance get your head around pulling the downhaul and main on hard to get the square top to lay off, then in a puff if you let the main off a bit the square top stands up again powering you up. It may be faster but wasn't faster for me on the day, I finished where I would have in the field before, anyone gauging it's performance should also recognise that they are racing against a brand new main sail and probably a brand new jib which always adds to the performance, I will post some sail pics soon. As for Drew Macs comments about little hull alterations I'm always up for a robust discussion and happy to have one here, I'll tackle that one in this thread soon


Jeff Southall
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Taipan 5.7 134
Mosquito 404
Arrow 1576

Moderated by  Damon Linkous 

Search

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 20 guests, and 230 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Rod_W, billyblackbeard, svendson, ioannisang, kev7424
7699 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Jake 9
brucat 8
Timbo 5
P.M. 3
Forum Statistics
Forums27
Topics22,259
Posts266,102
Members7,700
Most Online554
May 12th, 2017
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.009s Queries: 16 (0.002s) Memory: 0.8245 MB (Peak: 1.0160 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-10-17 14:49:39 UTC