For those who haven't seen this, it looks pretty promising...

http://www.ussailing.org/olympics/rio2016guide/

Mike

it's freaking awesome coverage! As a telstra customer in Oz it is all for free to boot for the first time will be able to watch all the races from all the class's !!!

Video is fantastic.... Apparantly the jobson/Smythe audio feed has a problem for today at least.

The RSX's raced and GBR dominated.... Wow watching how dynamic the leech is on the board i amazing.

Woman's radials are up now for race 2. Paige Railey is in 15th after one.

Decent breeze.... water quality... doesn't look horrible.

1 minute to start of race 2

Wow, that was great. Watched race 1 and race 2 for the nacra 17 on the live stream. No commentators, but I actually enjoyed it. Big shifts and plenty of lead changes made it very interesting.

Undoubtedly, it was far more enjoyable because there were no commentators.

I couldn't follow the tracker. I kept getting Java error messages that didn't make sense (install latest and enable, which I did)...

Is there a link to video replays?

Mike

I heard the live stream is most stable on FireFox

I found replays, but only on the App. You need to enter your cable provider info (need your bill with you). They also require access to your phone's location, photos, phone number (and number of anyone you're talking to), etc. And, they bombard you with ads.

Ok, the last part I can accept, but REALLY??? What the hell are they thinking with all of the rest of it, just to watch sports??????????

Mike

I watched the replay here:

http://www.nbcolympics.com/live-stream-schedule/sailing?day=5

Mike, I've got an extra tinfoil hat you can borrow. I share your sentiments exactly.

Well, I suppose a tinfoiler would probably say that the government is behind it. I'm not ready to be that paranoid, but I really don't want to derail this thread...

Anyone have a status on the first race today?

Mike

BBC has pretty good coverage (use Chrome+Hola plugin).
Shirley Robinson and Ian Walker are excellent commentators.
The 3D tracker is terrible though, bouys and courses are all wrong making it basically useless.

AUS and GBR are tied for first... USA is sitting in 16 behind the French (Besson)

It looks like his back injury has taken a big bite in their performance. That has to suck after dominating for 4 years of the quad!

After how many races, Mark?

I haven't been able to use the tracker, but in the video, the laylines, etc. were WAY off.

Mike

I enjoyed the 25 minutes or so that I got to see, I guess those of us who do not subscribe to cable are SOL.

Does anyone know what the 2 RET are from.
https://www.google.com/#q=olympic+games+rio+2016&mie=oly%2C%5B%22%2Fg%2F11ckwbyf07%22%2C7%2C%22o%22%2C2%2C%22%2Fx%2F38bbsrsklw72v%22%2Cnull%2Cnull%2Cnull%2Cnull%2Cnull%2Cnull%2Cnull%2Cnull%2Cnull%2Cnull%2Cnull%2Cnull%2Cnull%2Cnull%2C19%5D

races

Never mind

49er's are in sequence after a weather delay of a couple of hours. Breeze looks decent enough for some good racing.

This is what happens when you send a sports reporter to report on sport he knows nothing about;

Confused sports writer

Wow, USA tied for 11th, one point out of top 10!

Mike

Looking mathematically hopeless for the podium, but they qualified for the medal race.

Mike

Ha... old Tornado guy takes 5 point lead into medal race... (Way to go Santiago!) Experience seems to matter when the conditions vary as much as they have in Rio.

Making the medal round is a real accomplishment for Bora and Louisa! Johnny and Charlie finished 6th in their first go at the Olympics.

we will see how it goes in 49ners... but it looks like you need 8 years of experience to be in medal contention in the skiffs and cats.... The US is just gonna have to find a way to start the top sailors earlier! Collegiate All American does not move the ball far enough!

Ok, what happened to Waterhouse?

Mike

Notice the Tracing devises attached to each mast. At least there supper tiny and not in a place where they would disturb flow.

Pretty sure that's for the onboard camera that can take all those beautiful live videos we see. Oh. wait...

Nacra medal race in 15 minutes! USA got a bronze in Finn!!!!

HOLY COW Santiago takes two stupid penalties.... still comes back to 6th.... a point ahead of Australia...
Two bronzes and a gold.... Tornado's and N17s

Bora pulls a 4th in the medal race 8th overall equipment fails cost them a bunch.

That makes sense . Still not ideal for a sail boat. At least I heard what happen from others or it would probably be tomorrow
before I would know.

What happened in races 3 and 5 for the US?

I think that there where only a few working cameras, the rest where weighted dummies.
Not very impressed with the coverage this olympics, there was only 1 media course and even that was difficult to watch
Impressive win by Lange especially when you consider he's 54!

Might have washed the sails in 5 I think. 3 I don't know

Wow, what a close finish. Gold, 77 points, silver and bronze tiebreaker (78 each), ONE POINT behind gold!!!!!

Trapeze harness takes you out of the most important regatta of your life? How does that happen? Or are the online posts wrong?

Mike

It wasn't the harness. Trap lines broke at the top...

BYOB, correct (no redress)?

Mike

Looks like the woman's 470 medal race on Wed should be pressure packed with lots of teams in the hunt.. The US is in the medal hunt and could go big... or go home with nada.

And there's not even a Multihull in collegiate racing, so other than starting in Multihull in a club setting, like Taylor and Mathew, there's not going to be a lot of depth with years of experience (young) there.

Well.... the USA scored a bronze in Finn...... much better then Weymouth. Today s medal races were entertaining!!!! Still not sure the US has figured out how to build and coach up sailors in the pipeline..

It will never be like glory days of US dominance... I think the key would be for the US to invest in great coaches at both the development team and the Olympic Team.

From SA.... Team_GBR wrote this


I think the key is getting the high level coaches setting the pace. In the USA, given our collegiate sailing quirk... we must also have a partnership with the collegiate coaching elite.

So anybody think the USA has a "properly planned junior pathway" for mixed multihull ??? (What exactly is this pathway???)

How about world class junior coaching. Anybody know who has been involved in coaching and development of junior and senior cat racers? (its a bunch of people)

Final point... just because you raced at the international level... does not make you a qualified... much less world class coach.

Step one.... build a pathway... Step two... poach a great multihull coach for a quad.

OK sports fans.... the next quad kicks off today in Miami.

Some new faces join the USA N17 fleet. Bora, JC, Sarah Streeter are familiar names... The N17s will move from POS's on the water to full flying machines by their world championships. The USA has new leadership at the top. He wants to make Olympic sailing relevant to the racing world.




Thoughts?

Thank goodness! Actual sailing to follow instead of all my drivel about voting!

No worries.... Lets' vote on wether Malcom (an expat Aussie) should be leading the US Olympic Program. (I figure any US citizen votes yes... and the Aussie's vote No! seems like a fair system to me (grin)

I vote YES! While the quirks and limits of the US Collegiate system is new... I think he finds a way to find talent before college and get them on track through a college experience. Time will tell.

Ha we'll get him to come home, the only reason you got him was because of some big egos on low skill people established in our Aus yachting system and they're now exposed

He seemed like a real pro in the interviews that I have read. The number of aussie comments about how you guys screwed up in not recruiting him is impressive.

Wow

USA 133 Riley Gibbs/Louisa Chafee are in 5th place going into the medal round.

Great JOB

Now, anyone know who Riley Gibbs is??

Um... Google is your friend...

Or are you really asking if anyone here knows him personally from regattas, etc?

The bigger question might be, how were those rankings determined that you posted earlier?

Even bigger question: Will we see Easton again for this quad?

Mike

If the USA beach cat racing community are not going to be fans of the Olympic Sailing... nobody will be.

Mark,

Riley is new to the catsailing scene, he is only 19 after all, but has a fair bit of international experience according to google. It appears to that him and Louisa gelled in Miami, but it was a relatively small fleet, without the foils, and more concerning is the british squad were pretty dominant. Without someone else to push them hard, I'm not sure our chances in Tokyo are any better.

Easton isn't just a local stud, him and Burd have won races at the highest level of the sport and finished 10th out of 118 back in 2012 at the F18 Worlds. He doesn't need my defense, I can't say if he'll be back but right now the U.S's problem is finding and developing talented crew for sailors like Easton, Riley, Bora, and developing the next generation looking beyond 2020. I do know that Bora will be back, he has a small fleet of Nacra 17 Mk. 2's on order.

Bora's claim to fame is foiling, so he certainly needs to be watched.

Mike was a very close second during the last trials, but if he comes back, will need to ramp up on foiling (assuming he isn't already doing that).

Mark, I think the rankings you posted previously were before this event, do you know how they were determined?

Mike

Hey Mike

must be some confusion.... I don't know anything about rankings... What I was posting was cribbed from the miami OCR site... I never paid attention to the ranking numbers... I suspect the numbering was order of entry... or alphabetical... not sure..

The point to reviving the thread was...

I am a fan of olympic sailing.... So, part of the fun of the game is to find your team and root. In this day and age... its easier and harder... Easy to google and facebook.... harder to have actually had a conversation with any of the sailors if they don't compete at the rank and file... mere mortal classes.

"Local stud..." was not to diminish.... rather to point to Mike's New England roots and his shared roots with Easton's

AS to crew problems... well I suspect every skipper on the planet shares that whine... doesn't matter if its a 2 man boat or a TP52, crew issues just come with the game.. Drives many a sailor to a single hander.... (but... its just not the same experience).

ahem... I will just remember my noisy complaint in changing the game from Open to Mixed. but.... The actual issue here is finding sailors with the drive and time... its a tough tough game.

If Mike's out, I'm rooting for Louisa's team. Closest thing to local for me, I guess?

Mike

I can't say if Mike is in or out for the next cycle. I can say he is pursuing a masters degree at the moment and sailing currently isn't his primary focus, though I know he is staying involved with the F18 class and sailing what events he can.

You are correct that Bora could be a serious threat in the Mk. 2 Nacra 17, but sailing with who?

I'm not bitching about crew problems for nothing Mark, these are highly competitive teams and several top U.S multihull sailors had problems in the Nacra 17 because of the mixed requirement, which is good for our sport, but challenging with the low number of female sailors in the U.S having top level international sailing experience.

This is a great read about the similar results for US Rowing.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Vxjl6CZONyZjJuX1hIS3ptSUE/view

Do we care about international competition... or are we content with being a country club sport or worse... just a recreational pastime?

At the end of the day, that is the question...

I still think the Mk. 2 Nacra 17 has great potential as a multihull fleet from club level to the Olympics if Nacra proves they can build a boat that lasts through a quad (not sure if that was part of their design brief) and there is a level of class structure placed below that of the Worlds/Olympic level.

Sam

OK.... it starts up again... lets try and not rewrite history. WHY good for our sport?

Pt....Nobody else has mixed teams.
Pt... Nobody creates ultimately competitive sports that are mixed.
PT ... When is the last time you saw mixed doubles tennis on the international stage... Its a country club sport/pastime.

MIXED XXX is a social/political solution... not a competitive solution. In fact you highlight the problem... Not that many woman seem to be all that interested in competing in a MIXED competition.

So... why again is MiXED good for the sport?

What happened to the Nacra 15 idea as a training boat for entry into the Nacra 17?

Will the Nacra 15 ever be fitted out for foils?

re... the N17foiler as lifeline for high performance cat racing.

Maybe

I think it depends on what the competitive weight range turns out to be for this design. Does it go up because of the physics of foiling. What is unknown... is the fun factor in light air conditions and fun factor in weed areas.

I also think that SMOD is not the winning economic solution... rather... the F18 class leadership proved that a multiple builder model is a winner.

Could the N17 foiler be a great boat.... sure! lets hope... But I think human nature argues for the F18 model for the next 20 years.

From Todd

The 15 is on line... and the upcoming season looks very promising leading up to youth champs. I don't think they are sloted to foil yet at this level... (although they could with the proper boards)

hey, why isn't ice-boating an Olympic winter sport? That would be pretty cool to watch...

Aren't there a lot of female skiff (49'er/F-18) sailors that might transition well if they don't make the top 1 or 2 spot in their original discipline?

They would be comfortable foiling and trapeezing and would be familiar with closing speeds and calling tactics on apparent wind boats.

Jay,

Could they... sure... That was the plan... Have they.... Well they seem to be flushing through the system at a good clip. I don't have an explanation beyond...You don't see elite competition with mixed teams. I recognize that its a very complex environment and lots of things have to go right to have multiple teams working through a quad.... It's a tough game even when the discipline was Open.

Mark, I agree on the SMOD rule. At some point a class will need to be borne, basically the next generation of F18. Trouble with foiling is cost, existing F18's are already too expensive for many, and foiling versions won't be any cheaper.

The only reason I think mixed is at all good for our sport is there has been a bit of trickle down with more females in the F18 class. In general, yes I absolutely agree that the right answer is two disciplines with separate male/female classes like the 49er and 49erFX.

Here we go again...

Maybe (and we all know that I don't believe this myself) mixed is a bad idea for the USA sailors (can't seem to field a competitive team internationally). But, other countries seem to have figured it out. And, there are two people on the boat, so I'll never blame one of them, let alone the one who is always the same gender. So just stop already.

Mike

I would agree Mike. They made the rule and aren't likely to change back to single-gender event(s), so it's up to USS to figure out how to make that work successfully.

Looking at some of these tough-person/mudder/extreme challenge events on TV, I don't think as a nation we lack males/females who can't cut the mustard as far as strength and agility go...

and if nothing else worked, we could go for the east German swim team or transgenders?

Malcolm Page (Newport, R.I.), the Chief of U.S. Olympic Sailing. “The performance management of the team will fall under my position going forward,” said Page.

BINGO!

Looks like Charlie Mckee is moving onwards... So the Olympic Development team will be under new management.

(assuming we don't go to war with Australia for trumpian reasons.... we can't have Trump send him back.... I think this is a major step forward!!!)

The problem with getting rid of the mixed cat crew is that it would be deeply unfair to the sailors from other disciplines who would have to lose a medal or two.

Almost 20 times as many people do dinghy nationals in the USA as cat nationals for example. Even more people sail yachts, and they don't get any medals at all.

If cat sailors make up less than 5% of sailors at national level (even ignoring all the yacht sailors) it's hard to say that it's fair for them to get 20% of the medals - and we know the IOC doesn't want to hand out any more medals or allow any more competitors.

If we want to get more medals for cats, we'll have to increase the numbers. Remember when the cats were dropped from the Games and lots of people promised to create a cat class for juniors to increase numbers? Maybe we'll have to actually live up to our promise.

garda

You make an outstanding point about the proportion of sailing medals to cat sailors. IOC gives world sailing 10 medals and so you have many objectives to meet. EG. No keel boats points to one objective not met.

The most important issue (for me at least) was the impact on our actions of the past 8 years and what the future holds. You are correct... what happened to the junior development and growth in woman multihull sailors we expected to see?

So... take another look at the politics of the time 8 to 12 years ago.

With respect to cats.... the Americas cup DOG challenge that led to cats and tris is the primary reason that cats had to return to the games. Gender equity was almost a mandatory objective for the IOC as well. So... No worries in boards, dinghys, skiffs, single handers (lasers).

That leaves two disciplines to meet all the remaining objectives and multi's HAVE to be one objective met.

So... the politics of the times gave us Men's Finn and Mixed Multis. I thought and still believe that the proper compromise was a return to the tradition and make Multi's OPEN.. Then pick a boat that favored light teams to rig the game in favor of women to manage the politics of the times.

The righteous decision had everyone voted on principle would have been Men's Finn and Woman's single handed multi (to be designed).

What have we learned over 8 years?
The past 8 years PROVES that you can design and build a half assed boat for the olympics...(Do you really want to argue that the N17 was a winner.... hell they redesigned the damn thing completely for quad 2) AND if you make it Olympic Gold ... they will come and compete. It does not matter if the boat is a POS. Olympic Sailors are Olympic sailors... If they see an opportunity that matches their size.... They are going for it. There are NO sailing skills involved that can't transfer quickly. The fact that very few woman competed in any multi class world wide WAS true (and a great political argument... It made sense to me at the time as well). The number of woman sailors in the PAST is irrelevant.. Olympic sailors want the gold.... the means to that gold are irrelevant.... so... sailing an Aquacat for a gold medal... may be beyond stupid... but ultimately irrelevant to the Olympic competitor competing in the multihull class. Build it... they WILL come.

The idea was... that mandatory MIXED would be such an appeal to young woman sailors that by quad 2... the demand would force Men's and Woman's multis in the Olympics.. The reality is just a handful of woman participating in cats at ANY LEVEL STILL! (Count the number of woman competing in all recreational multihull class's at a national/international level... and I bet you don't match the number of woman racing the N17. MY Point... they are racing N17s because its OLYMPIC and they are olympic competitors... They are not sailing N17s because it' mixed... or they like co ed sports, or they love sailing in the best designed boat of all time... the N17.
Bottom line... make it Olympic single handed and you get the SAME number .... if not more woman on multi's at an equal or greater rate then creating the silly MIXED discipline.

While it's counter factual.... I think that cat sailing would be far far better off had we told the T sailors have a nice post Olympic life.... Had we had the vision... and made the Olympic mulithull a woman's single hander balancing men's single hander (heavyweight)

On earth 2... I see every elite female junior and collegiate sailor looking at an individual multi discipline and seeing a clear straightforward path. No need to find a partner (M or F) that compliments you and whatever boat they use. NO BS.... its all on their skill and competitive drive. NO olympic pathway fleet will ever look like a pyramid again... However, a robust pipeline of woman from juniors on up will generate extremely skilled amateurs who step off the pipeline path but stick with sailing a single hander for recreation as time, money and life allow. Tipping my sexist hat to the woman... Perhaps a more natural ability to build community works to grow and maintain participation more so then the forest of dicks that you see at regattas now. Perhaps, the sailing scene that has more woman single handed competitors looks just like golf and tennis. Lifetime sports with lots of woman competing. The normal recreational sailor (mostly male) will find the competition with these woman a great challenge on the water and to their ego and maintain interest for a life time.

I see an Olympic single handed 18 foot platform with a rig optimized for the target weight class as a SMOD (because that was ISAF's non negotiable requirement). I see an independent recreational class organized around a formula rule that closely matches the olympic platform design spec with a larger rig. (laser and laser radial)

I see an international Formula One Design of Single handers being extremely successful (Hell... the Hobie 14 still holds ISAF world championship status and the A class continues to flush sailors through as they try to hang in the development class world. Finally, the number one factor in getting young boys to join the sport... would be.... Young girls.

A womans single handed olympic multihull would have been a winner on the Olympic level (fair gender equal competition) and shaped the recreational world in profound ways.

If the recreational single hander class is successful.... the Olympic single handed men's class could change as well. Moths... kites... foiling singlehanders, who knows... A much more sensible objective then mixed giving way to M and W cat classes.

How about a world on earth 2, with three dominant international classes an entry level cat. The Hobie 16 with open, womans and youth divisions.

The International single handed Class with Woman's OD Olympic and Formula OD single hander divisions.

The Int. A class continues with their development/builder ethos.

A spin double hander class like the F18.... and what ever evolves from the F18 movement..... drawing competitors and sending them back to the single handed and Hobie 16 classes in a dynamic healthy way..

YMMV

How about the gender rule in the next VOR? You can have more hands on board if they are female.

eh.... not as interested in that proposal. for me... it dances a bit close to undermining the integrity of the competition.

For a two person boat.... separate M/W classes handles the equity issue of opportunity to compete. The integrity of the competition is not an issue. (now... when the class manages crew weight issues with a wind minimum and the politics changes that.... the integrity of the competition can be questioned).. why would a country not go for a slot with a T crew of 260 lbs... and then pray for a light air olympics in china. Optimize your chances of a medal.... the rules shape the game and call the integrity into question. (I don't mean somebody is cheating...when I use the word integrity here... a better one has not come to mind.)

IMO.... I see mandating mixed as undermining the integrity of sailing the boat.... Open means two woman could compete as well... So... pick a tiny boat if you want to shape the demographics. .... and let the cards fall were they may....

The mixed solution was political to ensure the woman's Isaf group supported it. They wanted woman's skiff and did not think that gender balanced events was possible. while the T was open.... not many woman competed... they wanted a sure thing of half the olympic slots... The Finn was in a politically dominant position AND had the argument that it was the only heavyweight class after the keelboats got kicked out... and the IOC pres was ex Finn medalist.

Had the idea that olympic representation should reflect the world sailing community popularity choices been lower on the list of values and gender equality higher..... perhaps a different outcome.

It was not even brought up that multi's might be represented but NOT include men... after all the T was vitrually totally a male world.. AND they were behind the push... cleverly putting Carolijn Brerwer (sp) in charge... so... not a politically viable or likely outcome.

In hindsight... I see the olympics as just about EXCELLENCE in the discipline... they should be gender balanced. It does not matter how many woman play at the game in the world... Hell.... how many woman went boxing before it was an olympic sport.
Build it .... they will come... Those that compete will be the best in the world at that event... doesn't matter how popular the event is with rank and file... (see American Football... now faced with Tom Brady hagiography bordering on sainthood for the next 50 years... OMG he he)

Brady needs to win two more, and to get Payton out of retirement (and beat him), to reduce (will never eliminate) the hatred spewed in his direction.

He said it was great to have his kids at the game. Did anyone see all 3 of them? I only saw 2.

#Notasaint.....

Mike

What and remind people how he dumped the first wife for the supermodel.... Nah.... Trump has proven that trading up periodically is not an issue with public support.

...to the top.