There are so many people complaining just because they like to complain.
To all you Hobie haters out there, why do you give a [censored]?
Go your own way!

Matt

Thanks for the info on the NAHCA. I believe Nigel volunteered to host the Mid Winters East and the NAHCA said he could if it was Hobie only and I think he declined. I believe they then offered to pay Key sailing (a Hobie/Preformance Dealer) to host it.

As far as the financials from SF I don't believe it is a Nahca event and does not have members. The event is put on by Nigel and his friends that love sailing and racing.

I think you should consider coming to SF instead of MWE just because it is closer and cheaper than going to FL. for you and should have just as competive of a H16 class.

I have been a member of NAHCA since 1999(I think) and I do not remember ever seeing a Budget or a vote ballot in a NAHCA news letter.

Hobiezealot

I don't hate Hobies I have owned five of them, I just don't agree with the new NAHCA policy and that as members we don't have a say. I also believe in one design racing and think that both can be sailed at the same event. Look at Key west race week they had 3000 sailors and a lot of different classes of different brands of boats. It looked to me like there was a lot of one design racing.

I also posted my name unlike you

Hello Bob,

That's sort of what the Sea Sprays have done. These guys have weights down in the A-cat range, mylar sails, carbon blades, etc...and they are embarrassingly fast. And the costs involved are very reasonable because it's all about resurrecting old boats.

See http://home.earthlink.net/~soapysails/

Dave,
Dave,
Nicely stated.
Hey, I tried to buy a Tiger today, but your crew(mike) sold it out from under me! JK
See you at SF and hopefully sooner!

dave mosley

Zealot, You haven't listened! Many of those expressing concern, and disapproval for the HCA decision are people that LOVE Hobies and one design racing. Many have simply evolved beyond the boats being offered by Hobie. They are still very active in their fleets, and divisions. I believe I am a true Hobie Devotee. I wasn't looking to meet people to sail with when I stumbled onto a fleet funsail. I was just curious about seeing so many cats together. The people that welcomed me, and later instructed, and befriended me, are what got me hooked on The Hobie Life. But you don't have to sail a Hobie to live it! Many of those people have been fleet officers for years! Without their energy many events would not have happened! I have not raced, though I still hope to. I'm not into it for the competition. I don't see anything wrong with competing in sail boat races, in fact I really enjoy following some of my friends. I use the word friends loosely, because I don't know many of them that well,(Rick Bliss, Barry Moore, Chris and Nate T.) but I do know what I've seen of their work for the sport of cat sailing. People like Rick, Barry, John Smith, and MANY others have earned my respect, not merely by being great racers, but by what they've given to grow the sport we all love. Does anyone have the gall to begrudge Rick White for sailing a Taipan? If they do they must have gotten hold of some of the Brown Acid from Woodstock! Few if any have done more than Rick and Mary for promoting the Hobie Life, and the sport of Cat sailing! I don't agree with Rick's politics, but I will defend him and Mary anytime as far as their integrity in this sport! I only know Jake Kohl(?), and Dave Moseley from reading their posts. Niether sails Hobies now, but I know I wish I had time to meet, and sail with them! I could rant all night because I am seriuosly righteous about the cult of Cat Sailing. I am pretty righteous about Hobies too! Some of the best times of my life have been sailing on Hobie 16s. Nothing I'd rather be on in 25 to 30 mph winds, and six foot seas! Oh, and while I'm preaching, people who expect respect here, post their names. Brian McCarter, H17, Fleet 448, Div. 12

>>Let's start a Formula 14 class. Hey Wouter, want to jump in on this one???

You'll be amazed how closed we got to that one.

Maybe later,

Wouter

Dave,

Sorry, plans have already been made, plane tickets bought, etc. For me, time is the issue. I just don't have that much vacation time available from work - and my wife is already PO'ed that all my vacation time goes to sailing.

I am counting the days until I can see the ground again. Right now it's under about a foot of the white stuff.

Matt

Brian,
Zealot, and many others, doesn't understand the difference between liking H-boats and liking IHCA/NAHCA/HCA.
Many of us H-boat owners like our boats, but don't like what has happened.
Personally, I started as a Nacra sailor and moved to the H-17 because of the big fleets they had at LOCAL regattas and the people were great.
Most H-boat owners don't belong to NAHCA. Even ones that belong to local fleets and race locally.
Most H-boat owners don't go to NAs or Mid-winters, so why join NAHCA?
Most H-boat owners, that don't belong to NAHCA, don't know it exists.
Most H-boat owners, that don't belong to NAHCA, have never heard of the "H Way of Life".

Most NAHCA members don't have a clue how it is run or what it is doing.
Most NAHCA members don't know that NAHCA is under the jackboot of IHCA.

And most importantly, the IHCA and NAHCA royalty don't care what the membership and the rest of the world thinks.
SIEG HEIL, MEIN FURHER!!!

All NAHCA needs to do to destroy H-Boat racing is to bring back the points system.
Segregate us into "cans" and "can'ts".

Sam Evans, acting Commodore, H-Fleet 97

In reply to Bob:
"Let's start a Formula 14 class"

I will take a stab at it.

First as I learned in playing with my wife's wave, small boats are cheap to experiment with. Make it an experimenter's class.

Second, limit it so anybody can right one, make light skippers (women) even, and the boats still fun when the wind is 20+ kts

Third, since there are unlikely to be more than 1 or 2 in an area make the rules loose enough that they can be a real pain to the bigger boats when the wind is light or strong.

Last and most important, don't complicate it.


______________________________________________________________________________
Rules

Anyone can claim to race under "14" rule, anyone can protest them. Obvious violators subject to public humiliation


Max length (excluding rudders) 14 ft
max waterline width 8.5 ft
Max mast length TBD (22-24ft?) ft (or restrict sail luff length)
Max main sail area excluding mast 120 ft2 per ISAF
optional- max other sail area 150 ft2( will change Portsmouth number)
Sail area to be written on sail by sailmaker or measurer if sail does not conform to a one design class


wings may be used on existing boats that are narrower than 8.5 ft
max width = waterline width + 2*(8.5 -waterline width)

(since the boats will work best with light crew this next part may be worthless)
light skipper width = max width +(160x8.5/skipper weight-8.5)
any skipper caught cheating on light skipper width may exonerate themselves by sailing the next regatta with no tiller extension)

Class legal Prindle 15, Supercat 15, any aquacat, and ? can race under 14 rule. Non class legal sails must conform to max sail area

Note to rules: These rules are wbeing written to make having fun easier and to get more boats on the water. The were rules written when all boats involved are old designs or something cobbled together in a garage, if this changes the rules may have to be revised
_____________________________________________________________________________


In case you are wondering why I bothered with this?

It started when I bought some old catamaran books and discovered there used to be a lot of ~14ft catamarans, some of which looked fast. I started wondering what happened to them.

Now I am building a 14ft tunnelhull/catamaran for the Wed Night Races in Houston.

Normally I try to refrain from responding to Trolls in a forum, but your post annoyed me, Sam.


That’s basically true. With something like 120,000 boats built, NAHCA membership represents less than 1% of Hobie owners. I would wager the same percentage of Sunfish and Laser owners belong to their class associations. So what’s your point?


First part true, but there’s a lot of other reasons to be a member of the class association. Newsletter, Guest Expert Programs, standardized racing rules, youth programs, regatta support (forms, stickers SI’s, etc). There’s a lot more to the NAHCA than the high level events. If you’ve never taken advantage of the services offered, then it’s your own fault.


Unfortunately, that’s true. I’d like to change that. We had a great field trip to Chicago this past weekend that helped spread the word. Like I said in a previous post, we signed up over 100 new fleet members at the Strictly Sail Show.


If that’s true, then it’s their own damn fault for not finding out. All you have to do is go to NAHCA Homepage and everything’s there – officers, bylaws, etc. You want we should spoon-feed you this stuff? You want to make a change? Get involved – and I don’t mean spouting off in a forum.


Now that is just silly. That’s like saying US Sailing is under the jackboot of the ISAF. We’re all part of the same organization (IHCA).


Now this is where you pissed me off. The NAHCA officers are long-time active racers and go to a lot of regattas every year. They listen to what people say and make their own decisions based on what they hear. I’ve known Rich McVeigh for at least 15-20 years and you couldn’t ask for a more intelligent, considerate, knowledgeable person to head up the NAHCA. Paul Ulibarri may not be the best diplomat, but he has done more for this class in the past 35 years than you can ever imagine. You’re damn right he’s demanding and uncompromising. He also is arguably the best catamaran PRO in the world. Being at the top means that you sometimes have to make unpopular decisions.

You’ve insulted a lot of people, Mr. Evans, right down to my Jewish wife and crew.

Now take your trolling comments and go over -----------> (to the old forum)

I’m done with this thread.

I need more details. Will the clinic be available at only NAHCA sactioned events? In other words, if our regatta is listed as an offical Division race, but is an invitational (open) event, will a women's clinic still qualify for W.O.W.?

Is there a teaching script? I organized a women's clinic, women's series and championship 15 years ago in Atlanta and noticed that experienced skippers often instructed at a level that was WAY above the novices.

Cyndi Bohannon
Division VI, Fleet 8

People on this forum need to get informed about what HCA does and doesn't do. Engage brain before engaging mouth. Way to go Matt...you calculated a firing solution, returned fire and hit the target on the first shot.

Matt, I want to thank you for confirming six of my seven statements.

You forgot to mention that Guest Expert programs are few and far between and you don't have to be a NAHCA member to attend.
You don't have to be a NAHCA member to attend a "Fast & Fun".
NAHCA does not publish Racing Rules on the website, of course you have to know about it first. It publishes Sailing Instructions.
We all are required to use the ISAF Racing Rules of Sailing(RRS).
"Regatta support" consists of an MS Word file, "Scoring Sheet" and SI's that we can download and print out and a contact so you can BUY course stickers.
(I was on the Race Committee at the 2003 Tiger/20 NA's and we didn't need or use ANY NAHCA materials)

What is "Silly" about it? My point in this post is that NAHCA members know very little about how NAHCA is run. Most of them naievely assume that the NORTH AMERICAN H-Cat Association is actually run by and for NORTH AMERICANS.

The "Royals" took away the voting rights of individual members several years ago.
The way Rich McVeigh was "elected" hardly inspires confidence in the system.
Class rule change proposals mysteriously appear and are approved by somebody, somewhere at their own schedule.
Look how many Tiger changes have been made and how fast they were approved.

There has been testimony from several EU sailors that major EU H-boat Championships are held at regattas with X-Boats in violation of the PU edict.
Why did the edict not include the EU? Aus? the World?
Why did it take THREE MONTHS for the two letters to get from Rich McVeigh to the members?
They intentionally waited until now in order to screw up our 2004 scheduling.

"They listen to what people say and make their own decisions based on what they hear."
EXACTLY! They talk to a small group and hand down edicts. They can base their decisions on whatever they want.

"Not the best diplomat", "demanding and uncompromising", that is a pretty good description of someone who thinks he is "royalty".
You are right about one thing, you will definitly get an argument from alot of people about who is the best PRO.


If you know anyone working the 2004 Tiger/20/17 NA's, get them to tell you why PU refused to allow the H-18's to join.

P.S. Save the "Oh I am offended" religious guilt for someone who cares.

Monsterkitty,
NAHCA has banned Open Class racing from NAHCA/Division/Fleet events.
If you allow an Open Class at your event it will not be NAHCA sanctioned.
I can't imagine NAHCA allowing W.O.W. or Guest Expert at any non-NAHCA events.

Tigerboy,
I am glad you agree with me too, but not just people on this forum.
AS I SAID, the majority of H-boat owners and NAHCA members are poorly informed.
Do you have a helpful solution or is there nothing in your brain to engage.

P.S. Anons should stay on the old forum.

You really don't get it, do you, Sam?

Tigerboy is John Bauldry. He was supporting my position, not yours - he called me last night to thank me for putting you in your place.

If you spent more time working on building Fleet 97 (Acting Commodore? What the hell is that - where you pretend to be in charge?), instead of mouthing off and displaying your ignorance in at least three different Internet forums, maybe you'd have time to fix the dead link to Fleet 97's website. (Now there's a novel concept! Actually doing something for your fleet!)

I've been sailing and racing Hobies for 31 years. I grew up in Division 9 and sailed at venues from the Chesapeake down to Wrightsville Beach. I went to college in Division 10, lived in Division 12 for three years, then moved back to Division 10 where I've been since 1985. I've been involved with the Hobie Class Association for 20+ years. I've built friendships all over the world because of Hobie Class Racing. I consider it one the greatest positive influences on my life.

What have you done, Sam? Zip, Nada, Zilch as far as I can tell. Unless you count spreading uninformed, viscious commentary. Please sell your 17 and go back to your precious Nacra. I'm ashamed to sail in the same class as you.

Now, like I said, I'm done with this thread.

Post deleted by Mary

and his posts, he makes good points and the NAHCA would do itself a disservice to ignore them. I think you know if you continue down the path you are on you will alienate a large porting of your membership. If this is your goal, then more power to you.

Regards,
David Ingram

Sorry, Mary. I let him punch my buttons, and unfortunately, I couldn't resist the temptation to roll in the mud with him.

My apologies to anyone who takes offense at my comments.

Feel free to delete my last post.

Matt,
You are free to edit or delete your own post for up to six hours after you place it. If I were you, I would just remove that "final thought." It was one thought too many, and we have all been guilty of that at one time or another.

Done. At least I have the courtesy to acknowledge when I've stepped over the line, apologize and take advantage of the opportunity to correct my indiscretion.

My wife, who has Holocaust surviors in her family, took great offense at Sam's equating NAHCA "Royalty" with Hilter. That's not funny.

Okay, just so everyone knows what is going on, Matt said something that he regretted. I posted a response. He then removed his statement. And I then removed my response.

And Matt is right about Sam being out of line with his Hitler analogy. I should have chastised him, too.