Bob,
I must say you have hit it on the head.
The rigging of a boat can be quite a social occassion.
Usually takes twice as long as needed, not because the boats are that hard to rig but because of all the talking that goes on between rival crews. At least that is the way of it at my club.
This brings up an novel article I read in an old Paper Tiger Newsletter. They posed the question.
"Are Beach Wheels in the interest of the sport?"
The issue was the beach wheels meant fellow Paper Tiger sailors didn't need each others help to get the boats in and out of the water and that could impact on the social side of the sport.
After all - don't we use the race as an excuse to Sail and Socialise.

OK
I'll drop the 'rect-o-race theme. I just think the relationship between rigging time and Portsmouth # is interesting. By the way, the fastest mast stepper is a person.

All for it Dav ,--good attitude and spirit -but

Some would argue the intent of a 14 class would be to provide good fun class racing ,--so a {class} of reasonabley equal boat types must be defined -
that is generally through the language of design measurement --basic box measurements of L B W & Sail area

Where to limit and HOW TO define?

Many think the ideal class would only set a limit on a certain sail area .---anything goes under that --cat -tri --4 hulls --proas -- foilers ---wing sails ---multiple wing spinakker kites --etc --
lots of great ones here http://www.ayrs.org/

This becomes a wide open developmental class mainly for sponsored teams that can develop and build wing sails and foils --
So limits are established --14 L -etc --
where and to what extent to define a {class}?
no one will ever get a unanimus concensis --
{much like the U N}

I,m for an "Open 14 rule" --no limits just 14.3 L
AS a sub class within the F-14 class

Think the main interest and numbers will take numerous existing good boats --Mystere 4,3 H-14s -etc and want to inexpensively modify them and add a hooter spin snuffer and just race and have fun . THIS SHOULD BE THE MAIN fORMULA 14 CLASS based on current production boat specs per Mystere 4.3 or a liitle beyond as per min weight --max sail area--
etc -
then an OPEN sub class category for any 14 not meeting those basic specs,

Beyond the 14 class ---however finally defined ,--
there are14 -- 16 --18 ---someday 20 --and other potential classes ---
The 18 sq meter class --single handed -no restriction on beam ,-is a good candidate for resurection ,by adding a spin snuffer and new basic specs and rules -
Your correct ,--there should be a class designated that is purely OPEN -to innovation and develop new concepts in --
set a length and sail area -limit wings to C Class -
but anything else goes --There is a thread on 18 sq on the new forum --Majsteve is building one w spin per description
http://www.catsailor.com/forums/sho...ew=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

One consideration in finalizing this proposed 14 class will be how it can best serve the sport in larger context and how it relates in the larger scheme of class organizations ---It should attempt to include all 14 types of cat designs within -- 2 categories seem to be needed.

Sail6000, while I do whole-heartedly agree with you that two divisions of this class may be the best way to keep the wildly different eras/designs from having to compete with each other, I think that is something that can wait until this class is truely established. I think you'll find the vast majority of the F14 class will be made of just these boats you speak of, especially this early in it's conception.

First, let's find out how those H14Ms really compare against the Mysteres, Waves, Tracs, and (evenutally) Blades. When we have a good variety of boats competeing on the same course we'll really be able to see where the "dividing line" might lie. Then we as a class of F14 sailors can bring up the debate of wether or not to race with divisions and if so, what those divisions should be.

Another thought is personal handicapping. Where the skipper earns a handicap rating due his skill level. I have heard of this system being used by some yacht clubs but have no first-hand experience with it.

Either way, I'd really like to see all F14s share the same start and race as one class, eventually with different trophies awarded in each division.

EXACTLY!!

Bob

Hey, that's an interesting idea...personal handicaps kinda like golf or bowling! Geeze...how would that work? With golf and bowling the course/lane is pretty standard and that is used as the basis for the handicap. We couldn't possibly expect to set up standard course length, wave/chop, and wind! I suppose it would have to be a system based on sailor against sailor but it would have a tough time applying evenly over a large region where different groups of sailors sail against each other regularly (perhaps that's not important!).

Hi Bob hi Brian
really good thoughts Brian ,-agree

though forsee the need for a min boat weight for production boats in a seperate class category ,---How hard is this to add really? --All start and race together ,you just designate the heavier production boats and give em trophies too --

Alternatively -It might just be noted as a consideration for next season after racing gets established ,--then again many may deem it much more fair and modify their production boat for that reason . If a lightweight flyer dominates racing it will discourage others with production boats ,--again these exist in large numbers ,can be modified inexpensively ,and really should be the priority and focus of the class .--Fast fun inexpensive racing for all .

Include the fun innovators and home builders in a more open class 14 category ,-all racing together from the same start ,-- The logos look great ,by the way ,--a nice bright color so the RC can easily spot F-14s when finishing , and a 24 inch sq decall made available ,-up Bob,s alley as sail loft .
Back to the boat weight 2 category idea--
I can not see competing with a 100 Lb lighter boat in the same {class} ,-though someone like Bob is very capable of taking a modified { though 100Lb heavier } H -14 and winning easily due to the human element and sailing ability.

Do like the individual handicap idea ,though generally applied and ajusted in local group racing ,--after you win one of handicap your allowed handicap is moved up enough so another wins ,--by the end of the season everyone wins one !! nice way to encourage new and youth sailors into a local club or the Wed evening series .

The 2 category concept can be implimented anytime .

Sounds like a good 14 ft cat design .
The fold up plywd method always makes fast rounded V shaped hulls no matter how you cut the outline and fold em up , though they will not lend themselves to any flatter fuller hull section shapes ,--in a 14 with fold up plywd. the designer must leave in a fairly wide deck to create enough volume to support boat and crew weight plus sail forces ,--more w spin ,on the bows particularly.

Built a fold-up and also a 20 cat using the stringer frame method ,-wanted flat hull sections and added volume forward .

With current 14 rules as proposed --no beam limit ,300 sq ft any configuration sail -24 mast , --hmmm
a mini 60 ft foiler tri ? scaled to 14.3 L 14 beam -
http://www.latitude38.com/LectronicLat/2003/0503/May16/banquepop002.jpg

Could just use a shortened center H 18 hull with two lightweight amas and angled foils molded in near the bows ,
to carry a large mast head hooter on a furler upwind and down ,--
hmmmm -- 300 sq ft is more than the I 20 main and jib !!

maybe 2 classes will be needed .

Marv should be in the class logo somewhere
kindof a symbolic inspirational figure -

If we can put Rovers on Mars -
CHANCES are we can start a F-14 class !!

First Earth blocks his view of Venus ,
now those pesky Mars rovers are all over the planet !
http://www.gargaro.com/images/MarsLanding.jpg

Jake,
I don't expect what I'm about to propose will ever come about but what the heck it's a lot of fun.

In fact some of the most fun I've every had sailing is when we do boat handicappng.

We run a short race and from that race we developed a handicap.
Now instead of the handicap staying with the skipper it was given to the boat. So now you have the relative speed the owner(someone who knows the boat intimately) can get it around the race course.

Then everyone swaps boats and they have to outsail the handicap developed by the owners race.

When we sawap again for the next race and still you are sailing with the handicap the owner established.

At the end of the day (after 7 races) the best sailor, not the best boat wins.

It is an awful lot of fun when we do it as we all enjoy the clowning around between races as well as during them.
It's not for everyone some people still think we're sailing for sheep stations.

Just for fun.

Phill