All,

It appears we are settling in on a max hull length of 14'3", mast length of 24', open beam, max sailarea of 300sqft in any configuration, 1 or more crew, everything else open.

Have I missed anything? This would give us a great place to start!! Later we can include an "unlimited" class within the structure if needed. Maybe a manufacturer will come on board with a boat built to our specs? Who knows!

When I get home from work tonight, I will look at all the posts one more time to see what else there is to debate. Tomorrow (Thu), I will break down the above parameters into a yes/no for a vote on each. I ask you to copy the parameters on to an email with your votes and email them to me at [email]sailbobcat@aol.com.[/email] Please vote by 1000 CST on Friday. I will tally with majority rule and post the results with the yes/no counts so you can see how all the numbers fell either Friday afternoon (before I go to work at 2:30pm) or early Sat morning. Saturday at 1200 CST, I will post the finalized rules version that will get us off and running. I want to thank everyone for their support of this idea.

Respectfully,

Bob Curry

PS: When you send in your vote, please include your full name and snail-mail address/phone number/email address for the class roster. Thanx.

Hi Bob

Thanks again ,--it is impossible to get a unanimous concensis of all ,---One solution to include as many 14s as possible and provide good racing within may require two categories of F-14s .

Per Bill R comments previously on weight= {speed potential}and expence . The average weight of most existing boats is 230 -240 ,
ht type 14 versions can weigh 100 Lb less !!

It would be much like racing a F-18 vs a F-18 HT
the HT version 100 lbs lighter and much faster potentially .Or just like an A-Class cat vs a H-17-wings
no contest.

The boat weight factor is currently missing or omitted in the 14 Class rule as proposed .

Suggest 2 categories of F-14s - min weight 230
beam 8.6
24 ft mast
300 sail ar ,max sa ar


Open 14 category - min weight -150
beam unlimited
24 ft mast
unlimited sa ar
all within the 14,3 L

Think the basis of the F-14 class intent and purpose is to provide good,- inexpensive fun ,fairly equal racing between very similar boats , these exist in large number in current production boats ,see chart provided previously
http://mystereowners.org/mystere/43specs.html
ALL have similar boat weight -around 230 240

The danger of just an "open" rule is someone bringing out a boat that completely dominates the racing ,-that in turn kills the class or forces all to that boat type only.

Suggest the 2 category approach within the F-14 class,-call one the modified production category ,-the other the Open ht category ,-race em all together but ,seperate trophies . It provides the best of both .

my 2 cents

I see down the road there may be a need for the 2 classes. Now, let's just get it off the ground and detail it in a year.

Thanks for your inputs!

Bob

I stay out of most of this discussion and the class in general (won't vote) but allow me to make the following comments

the
max hull length of 14'3"
MAX (?) mast length of 24'
open beam
max sailarea of 300sqft in any configuration
1 or more crew
else all open

Feels like a very good framework. Some other less restricted proposal are to much blue sky and will in general see rule beaters killing off the class. With the given limits the search is really on for the most efficient setup.

These specs actually come very close to the specs thought up by two Aussie designers builders who were/are looking into 14 foot cats. So maybe we have a "Maybe a manufacturer will come on board with a boat built to our specs?" right there.

Trailer width limit is not a problem on 14 foot boats. On experience (Hobie dragoon) and physics I don't see any F14 go beyond 8 foot and be a winner. It will wildthing later than others in light air and dip its bow in the heavy stuff with an adult barely on the trapeze. This will indeed sort itself out. Good thing is that the no beam limit allows skiffs and scows the enter as well without being killed on the weight limit.

can anybody look up the "international 14 foot" skiff limits. Maybe we can include them in this class and finally get head to head. Wouldn't that be a great development. Their spi will be too big but than THEY will just have to scale down there.

The setup like this will be more development than A-cat, F18HT and C-class put together. A cat class like the Moth, Great !


One more comment though ;

It is far cheaper to build hulls from exotic material than most of us think; Carbon and stuff is NOT the problem. The money goes for a large portion to blocks, high strength line, high strength fittings, labour and sails.

If anybody tries to build a sloop rig with spi on 14 by 8 than this boat will come out quite close in costs to F16's and F18 despite being smaller.

The best way to go cheaper is to remove sails and thus remove blocks and fittings. Hulls and sails are remarkable constant in costs despite their size.

Performance preditions of a

75 kg = 165 lbs ply hulled, 4.35 mtr (14'3") length ; 135 sqft. main no jib + spinnaker is

About Hobie 18 in heavy air and a little bit faster in light weather.

Quite good actually.

Wouter

I'd "settle" for TheMightyHobie18 performance in a boat that I can sail and right myself in any type of weather. Especially if it meant I got to occasionaly pass H18s on a 14' boat and make them look all manner of foolish.

was the Lundquist regatta a couple of years ago. On one trip downwind, this Supercat 22 comes charging up behind me, pissed off because I was in front of them. Not wanting to get rolled, I gybed away into a nice puff with the 'chute flying and squirted out nicely. The 22, though, is hunting me down like a dog in the street - they gybe on my line, maybe 4 or 5 boatlengths back... bad gybe, though, as the sheet goes overboard and under a rudder. I'm pulling away as their spin is flogging and there's a bunch of yelling. They get the sheet sorted out and heat it up with me in the crosshair, and BANG! Their spin pole snaps. Just behind them is a Nacra 6.0, wild-thinging like mad, and just as pissed I'm in front of them. They start charging, really pushing it. I'm close to a layline for the committee boat at this point, so I'm not gybing away, figuring I'm getting rolled high in a minute. Slowly, slowly they're gaining - great puffs and I'm having fun, but more than a little nervous, on the outer edge of my comfort zone single-handing. The 6.0 is coming... charging... spray is going everywhere... then I hear, almost in my ear, "aww, man!" Over they go, the skipper still trying to pop the mainsheet off in the puff. I squirt away and through the line... where I informed the RC I was retiring from that race. I had gone WAYYYY deep into the wrong corner on a miserable up-wind leg, and only completed one lap of a two-lap course - I'd really stunk it up. When the guys on the beach found out they were LAPPING me instead of me somehow beating them around the course, I thought they were going to stuff me in a garbage can!

That was a GREAT downwind leg though, and really showed me for the first time how much speed there is in a little boat with a 'chute - the 6.0 was really working hard and had to push it to the edge to come get me.

Yeah... that's a good feeling.

I knew there was a cruel streak hiding behind that big grin of yours John

Hi, my name is Berny and I'm very interested in F14. My involvement with 14ftrs (4.3m here) goes back some 14yrs when I bought a 14ft Maricat, a Hobie 14 inspired Oz 14ftr. A nicer boat to sail than a Hobie but I digress. I campaigned my little boat for aprox. 8yrs winning the club championship in '98 and state and national titles in '96, '97, '98. I decided that the 14ftr was a unique class in as much as it could be sailed easily single handed, was easy to trail, rig, launch and retrieve, and was overdue for an update. I designed and built a boat I called the 430. It's uni rigged and styled after the A class.
Builder:

Peter Skews Shipwright Services (lay-up)

Designer:

Bern Leslie (me)

Length:

14ft nom. / 4.3m [LWL]

Beam:

7ft.10in / 2.4m (max. Aus)

Displacement:

107lbs / 75kg

Sail area:

main: 145sqft / 13.5sqm

Spinnaker: TBA

Mast Height:

24ft 7ins. / 7.5m

Construction materials:

Hull; Hand laid moulded Epoxy / ‘E’glass / carbon foam sandwich.

Mast and front beam; 50x120mm chemically milled alum. Sail; Mylar.

It's a great boat. It's just a gem to sail and it's the fastest 14ft cat in Australia by a street and is quicker than some 15 and 16ftrs. It actually runs with slower H16's and I have occasionally knocked off the odd TheMightyHobie18 though more from sailing skills than actual boat speed. It seems to have no real hang-ups and, in all the time I've raced it, I've never 'put it in'.

I developed a set of one design rules and raced the boat in three states over two years in mixed 14ft uni and sloop fleets and if I finished (and mostly I did) I won.
NO-one here was interested!
I tried to put a 14ft GP circuit together and no-one was interested.

Sale price was in the range $A11,000. depending on hardware.
I lost interest, parked the boat under cover and went bike riding for three years.

This season I'm back and there's a second boat being built. I am at present 185lbs and the boat was designed for a crew of around 170lbs but it still kicks @r$. I'm looking at a spinnaker but frankly at 62yrs I've got about as much as I can handle with what's already there.

I see F14 as the way to go to get people interested in 14ftrs again and possibly a vehicle to get the 430 (or soon to be F14) into production.

Bern