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#3166 - 10/18/01 03:35 AM Poll, on the Cirrus Energy.  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Dear collegues;
<br>
<br>another poll for you.
<br>
<br>The Cirrus 16 footer comes in two configurations : Regate, Ecole. The last is the skeg version of the boat.
<br>
<br>The measurement as given on the webpage are. (NO Texel or ISAF measurement as of yet.
<br>
<br>Régate Length : 4.88 m or 16 foot
<br>Width : 2.40 m
<br>Weight : 150 kg including Genaker
<br>Mastheight : 8.10 m
<br>
<br>Mainsail: 12 m˛ (just over 13 sq.mtr. including mast)
<br>Rated mainsail : just less of 12 sq. mtr.
<br>
<br>Jib oppervlakte : 3 m˛
<br>Rated jib : less than 2.9 sq.mtr.
<br>
<br>Genaker : 15 m˛ / 18 m˛ Nylon
<br>
<br>Wings availiable.
<br>
<br>In short the Cirrus Regate is fully compliant with the boxrule with the exception of the 18 sq.mtr. genaker. On other aspects it is well below maximum allowed dimensions. I propose therefor to allow this boat to be grandfathered in with it's 18 sq.mtr. spi. Its texel rating is 114 when 2 -up at best. It will only be a winner in very experienced and capable hands but I see no reason to exclude them because of their 0,5 sq.mtr. bigger genaker while the rest of the boat falls within the F16HP boxrule.
<br>
<br>
<br>[Linked Image]
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>Wouter
<br><br><br>

Attached Files
3182- (69 downloads)

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
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#3167 - 10/18/01 05:10 PM Re: Grandfathered boats and modifications- [Re: Wouter]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 344
Kirt Offline
enthusiast
Kirt  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 344
Arkansas, USA
Wouter (and all)-
<br>I do not have a problem including the Cirrus with it's (apparently) one-design size spinnaker that is slightly larger than the "box rule".
<br>However I would like to clarify/confirm one thing about the "grandfathered" boats because a number of them, like the Cirrus, extend beyond the box rule in some way in their present form.
<br>And that is, that ANY "modification" to an approved grandfathered boat requires that boat to be in FULL compliance with the entire box rule to be considered compliant with the modification. The Class may be petitioned to ALSO accept the boat with this modification, but it will not be "automatic".
<br>For instance, if someone extends the beam of a Taipan 4.9 to the full allowable width, then they must use a smaller jib than the "stock" one to remain in compliance (since this is the only parameter for the Taipan outside the "box").
<br>Can you clarify/confirm this or comment on?
<br>
<br>Thanks!
<br>Kirt<br><br>Kirt Simmons
<br>Taipan #159, "A" cat US 48

Attached Files
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Kirt Simmons Taipan #159, "A" cat US 48
#3168 - 10/19/01 02:50 AM Re: Grandfathered boats and modifications- [Re: Kirt]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
I think you said it best when you wrote :
<br>
<br>>>ANY "modification" to an approved grandfathered boat requires that boat to be in FULL compliance with the entire box rule to be considered compliant with the modification. The Class may be petitioned to ALSO accept the boat with this modification, but it will not be "automatic".
<br>
<br>The grandfathering in only based on the setup considered wihich is the unmodified (One -design) parameters. Any modification will dimish the grandfather status. The owner or one-desig class may however petition to grandfather the new setup too. Ofcourse they stand a very good change with most modifications, that is why I would like to lay this responsibility with the local class heads. That unless a design is redesigned by the builder, than the class is called to the vote again.
<br>
<br>Mind you, this procedure is not much different from the procedure for full compliant boats (foundation boats). When they modify (or replace sails) their personal boat or design with respect to the controlled aspects than a re-measureing is required.
<br>
<br>Is this answer satisfactury ?
<br>
<br>Wouter<br><br>

Attached Files
3214- (60 downloads)

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
#3169 - 10/19/01 05:28 AM Re: Grandfathered boats and modifications- [Re: Wouter]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 344
Kirt Offline
enthusiast
Kirt  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 344
Arkansas, USA
Yes.
<br>Thanks!
<br>
<br>Kirt<br><br>Kirt Simmons
<br>Taipan #159, "A" cat US 48

Attached Files
3215- (52 downloads)

Kirt Simmons Taipan #159, "A" cat US 48
#3170 - 10/20/01 01:28 PM Standings : 7 pro; 1 against ; 0 blank; = accepted [Re: Wouter]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
I'll be very interested to hear the argument against dispensating the Cirrus Energy into the "open F16HP class". In that case I can maybe adres this aspect satisfactury to all.
<br>
<br>Otherwise I will accept this outcome as a basis for dispensating the Cirrus Energy. The poll will remain open for a while longer just like the others and I will check up on it in a few weeks.
<br>
<br>wouter<br><br>

Attached Files
3245- (75 downloads)

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands

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