Anyone using the power righting system on an Hobie 21 SE with success? Any suggestions for righting this boat with 2 crew of about 190 pounds and no assist from outside?
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The 21 may be too big of a boat for the power righting system. My suggestion for such a lightweight team:
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<br>EAT MORE PIZZA AND ICE CREAM! ;-)
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<br>Fair winds,
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<br>Tim J.<br><br>Hobie 20 #541
<br>Bald Eagle Yacht Club, Fleet 52
<br>White Bear Lake, MN

There is a guy in my area who installed his own righting bar on a H-21. He only needed to use it once but said it worked well. I don't think the bar is significantly different from the "Power Righter" probably just less refined. <br><br>

...use a longer pole!
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<br>It is not the weight that rights the boat, is the momentum (the weight times the length of the pole). If you weight less, just increase the pole length and you can right anything.
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<br><br><br>Luiz

Terminology:
<br>Momentum is the tendency for something to keep moving unless acted upon by a nett unbalanced force...i.e. thats what got you in trouble in the first place. Classic pitchpole is when the drag rapidly increases as the bows bury, and the momentum of the rest of the boat acting at the center of gravity which is above where the drag acts causes a moment that turns the boat base over...so when you are really smoking, no amount of sheeting out will save you from a rapid bow bury.
<br>Getting righting right:
<br>The weight x distance to point it will pivot about(perpendicular to direction weight acts in) ie horizontal distance from beergut to hulls is the righting moment.
<br>If you could figure the weight of the boat and where it would see saw on the mast when lying on its side. Multiply the weight by the horizontal distance (boat still on its side)from see saw point to hull center. This must equal the distance to your hands as you hang from the righting pole x your weight. Power righting involves approximately the wind resistance acting perpendicular to the tramp x its distance (vertical dimension to waterline). This moment which assists can therefore be subtracted from the required moment of you x pole length. (requires therefore less you or less pole)
<br>As the wind always quits when you are trying to right, and the sails are wet, if you match the moments without wind, you are on the safe side.<br><br>

Just a thought, probably outside the realm of what you want to do, but... Of course by now you've lifted that mast a couple of times. The one time I helped a 21 sailor rig I couldn't believe how much the mast weighed! For ease of righting you might want to investigate lighter weight mast options. If you got the scratch a carbon mast would be cool, but you might find that other aluminum masts from existing cat designs might fit the basic parameters and offer a weight savings. Would probably do great things for how the boat sails as well. That and shroud extenders might do wonders.<br><br>Keith, Annapolis, Md.
<br>H-18
<br>Northstar 500 (monoslug)
<br>www.wrcra.org

In my home language "momentum" alone can is commonly used by engineers with many different meanings (like righting moment, inertia momentum, quantity of movement and a few others), and that caused my error.
<br>Sorry about that.
<br><br><br>Luiz

I'd be more radical.
<br>The 21 I used to sail had a heavy mast, heavy hulls, heavy boom, heavy everything... When a boat is that heavy, changing parts is no solution. Changing the boat works better.
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<br>That is exactly what I am doing now.
<br>Only detail: it's not lighter, it's a bigger and heavier folding tri - with foils.
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<br>Keep it light - or make it bigger...<br><br>Luiz

Hi Luiz, Is your new boat a Catri 27 by any chance? Sounds like it... If so, lucky you!<br><br>

Yes!
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<br>I have comissioned the construction of the first Catri 27 in the S.America, actually the first in the Southern Hemisphere.
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<br>The shipyard is Ventair (www.ventair.com.br - site in construction) in Brazil.
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<br>The price of building there is A LOT cheaper then in the US.
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<br>I did not want to build in Latvia because the logistic would be too complicated for me and the price in Brazil is even better, with a quality standard I already know is good enough.
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<br>I even found another shipyard that will produce a carbon mast!
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<br>I will let you know when the boat is ready (can't wait)
<br>Keep it fast,
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<br><br><br>Luiz

Congrats Luiz, I want to hear all about its sailing when it is finished. I just remembered that I might have forgotten to reply to an e-mail you've send a little while ago. Sorry, with all that otehr stuff it totally slipped my mind. Or did I reply ?
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<br>Wouter<br><br>

Since you are interested, I will tell you the interesting remarks.
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<br>The shipyard owner, an Argentinian working in Brazil with 30 years boat construction experience, including Farrier, Newick and other multihull designs, said the following:
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<br>Although the materials used in the Catri 27 are mostly conventional, much like the Farriers, the engineering and plans are outstanding, with plenty of excellent solutions, tools and new ideas. He is thrilled by the excellence of the engineering and beauty of the design.
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<br>I think this is a direct consequence of the economic situation of the former soviet states: lots of knowledge but few money. Their boats must use cheap materials, but engineered to the best performance. It certainly suits my personal finance...
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<br>The latest related development is that I found a Brazilian shipyard that can build a custom carbon mast, although not in an autoclave. I am waiting for the mast plans so that they can calculate the price and I can make a decision, comparing to a Marstrom + freight and taxes.
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<br>I will keep you informed,
<br>Luiz<br><br>Luiz

Thank and well I always found that the Russians displayed remarkable innovative skills in their designs. Most westerners regard Russian and sovjet engineering as substandard, but often they fail to take into account the severe limitations with which the russian designers were faced. No super computers no exotic materials and everything had to work in
<br>both hot desert and cold artic environments.
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<br>It takes alot of skill to produce military products that were equal in all aspects to the western product with the exception of electronics with only 25 % of means and materials.
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<br>It seems that the capri plans are another item out of that tradition.
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<br>Please, keep me posted.
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<br>Wouter
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Wouter,
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<br>The Catri's designer, Aldis Eglajs, actually uses a PC, Autocad, Excell, Word, etc. and is connected daily to Internet exactly like us. The lack of resources left its mark in the engineering and culture of that side of the World, but it is part of the past now.
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<br>Anyway, your remark reminded me of when a MIG (23?) was brought to our side by an escaping soviet pilot and after disassembly, it was discovered that it used common steel frames. Naturally it was immediately classified as "obsolete technology".
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<br>Afterwards, it was discovered that the steel was actually welded to aluminum (or another metal, I do not remember exactly) that according to the western technology of the time could not be welded to steel. Then it was found that the combination actually resulted in a stiffer and lighter construction!
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<br>Aldis Eglajs was certainly smart enough to understand the advantages of the Farrier folding system for small trimarans and to wait until he could use it in his designs. He also recognized the price/weight/strength advantages of foam sandwich construction and adopted it.
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<br>I think that if "they" can be smart enough to recognize "our" advantages, we can be smart enough to recognize theirs, understanding that the combination of materials, technology and techniques from both sides will certainly result in a better boat.
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<br>Best regards,<br><br>Luiz

Luiz,
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<br>>>The Catri's designer, Aldis Eglajs, actually uses a PC, Autocad, Excell, Word, etc.
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<br>I know. But he learned his trade in that other era.
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<br>
<br>>> The lack of resources left its mark in the engineering and culture of that side of the World, but it is part of the past now.
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<br>Indeed.
<br>
<br>>>Anyway, your remark reminded me of when a MIG (23?) was brought to our side by an escaping soviet pilot and after disassembly, it was discovered that it used common steel frames. Naturally it was immediately classified as "obsolete technology".
<br>
<br>Afterwards, it was discovered that the steel was actually welded to aluminum (or another metal, I do not remember exactly) that according to the western technology of the time could not be welded to steel. Then it was found that the combination actually resulted in a stiffer and lighter construction!
<br>
<br>Yes, I remember. One of my favorite stories is the designing of the T-34 tank during the WW2. Germans made masterpieces of engineering but theor complexity was their achilles heel. The Russians who just moved (saved) their whole industry to behind the Ural mountains needed a equally capable tank really fast and they needed it simple and easy to build and repair. Germans had thick armour andthe Russian lacked the engines to power a similar tank heavy of all that armour. And then a brain wave ! Some russian, maybe even a female engineer, coined the idea of sloping armour. Instead of completely stopping a high velocity shell, sloping armour deflects the same shell but with only a much portion of impact force. Hence they could do with less armour. Less weight and the engine could take it and even propel the tak across the battle field at high speed. Drawbacks, almost none, A little bit less space inside the tank. From that time on all tanks use sloping armour. It is the pure brilliance of that solution that attracte me. Simple and so effective.
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<br>>>I think that if "they" can be smart enough to recognize "our" advantages, we can be smart enough to recognize theirs, understanding that the combination of materials, technology and techniques from both sides will certainly result in a better boat.
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<br>Indeed again.
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<br>Well, I'm sure we're going to have more discussions in the future. Once again, congrats with you boats I envy you and happy to have helped when you were just looking for info.
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<br>Wouter
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By the way, I believe that there will be space for MANY discutions regarding the best setup and tuning for this boat and your input will certainly be welcome.
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<br>When the time comes, Aldis will help me tune the boat. Since we are so far from each other, the whole information interchange will be electronic, so it will be easy to copy the interesting parts to you - or even to the forum.
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<br>Right now, I can only discuss the construction methods and engineering, but we are patient...<br><br>Luiz