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general direction #3655
11/09/01 01:59 PM
11/09/01 01:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 800
MI
sail6000 Offline OP
old hand
sail6000  Offline OP
old hand

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 800
MI
-First -thanks to Rick for providing this forum and all he does for the sport.
<br>
<br>-posted this previously ,but thought I,d get the discussion started.
<br>
<br>--Want to bring up the topic of ISAF and Texel {similar established design measurement rules }as a basis for rating all 20 ft boats into more of an equal performance ,-or design formula type class allowing more diversity and being more inclusive with the numerous existing boats .
<br>-F-16 ht class has used this approach to some extent and believe it could easily be expanded.
<br>
<br>-Historically the dangers are with this type of rule -{as many monohullers will readily tell you } is that #1-it can evolve into expensive lightweight componants for speed ,--#2-it can lead to extreme types of designs {rulebeaters }
<br>-#3 Strength -it can lead to unseaworthy lightweight craft .
<br>--Obviously this leads us to define catagories and write Class rules to prevent these and other negative aspects to evolve within the class,-but believe establishing this INTENT of fair sailing -for people of good will to race together for the enjoyment of the sport is the goal and main priority while including many existing catamarans and allowing diverse evolving design upgrade combinations to them and the growth and developement of new design concepts.
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<br>-With this more open Design Formula --Equal Performance Class approach it will be impossible for any individual to manipulate it for personal profit ,{being based in existing established ISAF and texel ratings ,-which also serve as the common bond internationally},-and believe it is very important to have boat builders , sailmakers ,-and boat dealers {plural } as a vital part of establishing this class.
<br>:
<br>-Looking forward to the formation of the class and interesting discussion .
<br>
<br>All the best
<br>Carl Roberts
<br>
<br><br><br>

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Re:-some added thoughts [Re: sail6000] #3656
11/11/01 10:54 AM
11/11/01 10:54 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 800
MI
sail6000 Offline OP
old hand
sail6000  Offline OP
old hand

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 800
MI
some added thoughts in general terms from a post on the new open forum in responce to a H-18 sailor interested in F-18 -
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<br>--The H-18 is a great seaworthy cat ,-they have been sailed across the atlantic ,-and through the Northwest passage ,among other great cat sailing feats.
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<br>-Bret and Rod -{Aussies} raced a H-18 with a chute very successfully in past Worrell 1000 race .-If your not ready for the Tiger ,-pick up a used chute pole and hareware package readily available and get some valuable practise and have fun.
<br>
<br>-Currently purchased a Supercat 15 for my kids to sail on our small inland lake ,-plan to fit a spin on it over the winter ,-have a spare chute and pole ,-there are existing large jib blocks already on it for the roller furling jib which we will change to a self tacking type ,---letting the chute provide the downwind speed ,--
<br>-The best aspect is I purchased the cat for 100 -bought a used main and jib from the very fine folks at Supercat for 200 ,-put on a new tramp ,-have a chute pole harware etc -so the entire cat with chute will be approx 600 dollars .
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<br>-Believe these types of values are out there for any wanting to get into a starter or beginners cat with chute ,-A cat chute is just in effect a big jib ,very easy to learn once you have basic cat sailing skills.-Again these types of values are out there in any size or formula catagory for a very minimum investment per example .
<br>Will these older cats always be compeditive ,-no -but it is a great way to race equally with similar cats in large diverse fleets and a great way for younger and newer sailors to get started. -You generally do not win regattas until you develope racing skills over a number of years ,--then is the time to move up to a newer cat.
<br>The sport has been declining rapidly ,-We have to allow new ideas and concepts to evolve and be willing to change adopt and grow.If we don,t we will simply continue to decline.
<br>
<br>-Also started sailing H-18s in 78-79 when they first came out and raced them for a decade or so ,-it will always be my favorite cat ,--then H-21S in the Prosail and Ultimate Yacht Race events in 88 - with big full chutes .Since then have been hooked on spin rigged cats .
<br>-Now just enjoy doing distance races mainly and the occational bouys race on I-20s.-Chose an I-20 mainly to be able to race in the Worrell 1000 .It is an excellent boat ,but like many ,understand that there will certainly be lighter higher performance 20 s out in the near future ,-We have already seen a glimps into it with the CFR 20 and Marstrom 20 among other high quality lightweight cat designs -
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<br>-The F-18 Class will be an excellent class and already has a number of top sailors {more than 20 }to organize start and support it ,--racing the new Nacra F-18 and know several who plan to purchase a Tiger and know numerous other excellent designs are and will continue to be readily available .This class was started in Euro in 94 and is now very popular.
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<br>-The F-16 class also looks good with it,s lighter class boat weights and a rating number equall in performance to the F-18s .-It will take a few years to really get these classes going in the U S . ,-SHOULD BE GREAT FUN.
<br>
<br>-In the formation of rules for the 20s in the U S ,-just beginning discussion under the Formula 20 Forum ,-Several are for more of an open formula or equal performance class approach using ISAF and Texel rating systems as the basis and connection to international sailing,as opposed to a very specifically defined F-class.
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<br>-Theoretically -A max. 20 ft rating will be established and cats will be allowed within a rules framework variables of design elements including sail area to weight , main factors in achieving speed as the other topic post mentions ,-You can either keep weight with a larger sailplan ,--keeping existing boats compeditive ,-or trade off sail area for lighter weight ,-each having a theoretical speed atvantage in a particular set of conditions along with numerous other design variables in almost infinate combination to achieve a cat platform and sailplan OF YOUR CHOOSING thats right for YOU or that you may want to built yourself or combine different existing platform ,hardware rig ,board rudder and sailplan combinations.
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<br>-The Design Formula / Equal Performance approach to the 20 class will best achieve the goal of allowing existing cats new compeditive life , my guess is they will have the edge in light medium wind conditions ,- the future developement of lighter cat designs with more managable efficient sail plans ,most likely having the edge in performance in the higher wind ranges ,-
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<br>-should be fun ,interesting ,and hopefully bring new life into the sport.
<br>All the best
<br>Carl<br><br>

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