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#3679 - 11/09/01 04:03 PM H-20 Miracle specs  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 800
sail6000 Offline
old hand
sail6000  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 800
MI
Presented by
<br>Hobie Cat Co. (USA)
<br>
<br>Builder
<br>Hobie Cat Co. (USA)
<br>
<br>Designer
<br>Jack Groeneveld
<br>
<br>Specifications
<br>
<br>Length: 19 ft. 6 in. / 5.95 m
<br>Beam: 8 ft. 6 in. / 2.60 m
<br>Draft, board up: 0 ft. 5 in. / 0.13 m
<br>Draft, board down: 2 ft. 9 in. / 0.84 m
<br>Displacement: 420 lbs. / 190 kg
<br>
<br>
<br>Builder's Remarks
<br>Meet the cat of choice for racers around the world. Specially engineered to set a rapid new pace for the 90s, the Hobie Miracle 20 is designed with every "go fast" feature imaginable, virtually all as standard equipment that would be costly options on other boats. The Harken 8:1 downhaul and prebent Comptip mast enable power at the top of the sail to be controlled, even while trapezing. And, with Harken equipment throughout, quality is guaranteed. For even more control, all jib sheet, jib lead, downhaul and mast rotation adjustments can be made from the trapeze.
<br><br><br>

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#3680 - 11/10/01 02:19 PM Re: H-20 Miracle specs [Re: sail6000]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 833
Mike Hill Offline
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Mike Hill  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 833
St. Louis, MO,
My H20 specs. are as follows.
<br>
<br>Length 19 ft. 2 1/2"
<br>
<br>Mast Length. From the place where the main would hang from on the top of the mast to the top of the front beam.
<br>30 ft. 10 1/2".
<br>
<br>The mast top to bottom is 31 ft. 3 3/4".
<br>
<br>I beleive the first mast measurement is how we should measure masts.
<br>
<br>Front beam which is the widest point on my boat is 8 ft. 6" exactly. I measured the rear beam and it is 8 ft. 4" which makes sence since the hull tapers down as it comes back.
<br>
<br>If someone could explain an accurate way to measure my main and jib I would gladly go measure it.
<br>
<br>Mike Hill
<br>H20 #791
<br><br><br>

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Mike Hill
N20 #1005
#3681 - 11/10/01 10:21 PM Re: H-20 Miracle specs [Re: Mike Hill]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 24
NaCl H20 Offline
stranger
NaCl H20  Offline
stranger

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 24
USA
The Texel website has a diagram to calculate sail size
<br>Go to:
<br>http://www.texelrating.knwv.nl/
<br>Click on "Description & Calculation"
<br>It's about 1/2 way down<br><br>

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#3682 - 11/11/01 09:09 AM Measure like this, there are a few must know thing [Re: Mike Hill]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Mike ther are a few things you should know when mearuring you sails. I will write them down here.
<br>
<br>First a pictures of the mainsail
<br>
<br>[Linked Image]
<br>
<br>
<br>The methode boils down to this :
<br>
<br>-1- you lay the sail flat on the floor with the battens in the pockets but without tension. You tension the sail just enough to take the creases out and pin (nail) it down like that. (In the way that the sail spans the biggest area.)
<br>
<br>-2- you hamer a few nails around the sail on the drawn places.
<br>
<br>-3- you measure the identified sides of the triangles. INCLUDING the very small triangles that span the space between the sail and the nails used for measureing.
<br>
<br>-4- You calculate the total area of the sail by calculating the area of each triangle and adding them up where ofcourse the small traingles outside the sail near the nails are subtracted.
<br>
<br>REMEMBER to calculate; Triangles with only straight sides by 0,5 *base* height (where base and height are perpendicular to each other) And "triangles" with a curved side by using the formula 2/3 * base * height. (where base and height are perpendicular to each other)
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>Measureing the jib works the same (go for the picture to the Texel site)
<br>
<br>When you present the rsult please give two area's. I'm not sure wether the Hobie 20 has a large flap underthe mainsail but this area can be substantial but is also found to hardly produce any sailforce. So when comparing mainsails I would suggest that only teh area above the lowest batten is taken in cosideration, So give teh area without the flap and with the flap.
<br>
<br>If you have more questions about this measurement methode please mail me or one of the Texel officials (mail adresses found on the Texelrating site www.texelrating.knwv.nl)
<br>
<br>Good luck
<br>
<br>Wouter
<br>
<br>
<br><br><br>

Attached Files
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Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
#3683 - 11/12/01 12:47 PM Re: Measure like this, there are a few must know thing [Re: Wouter]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 833
Mike Hill Offline
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Mike Hill  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 833
St. Louis, MO,
I'm a little confused. I have the basics down but here are a few questions.
<br>
<br>Meetpunt's: Why would they be outside the area of the sail? I was assuming I would use the Head tack and clew corners as my meetpunts. So I don't understand the picture that has the meetpunt outside a rounded corner. Of course I don't have any rounded corners on my sail.
<br>
<br>Second question: Is the point where S7 and S8 meet always at the end of the first batten? And is the point where S4 and S6 meet always at the end of the second batten? Or do you try to move these points to try to make it look more like the picture?
<br>
<br>Would I use a big old square to try to get the H1, H2, H3, and H4? What are the tools commonly used by the pros to measure these sails. Just give me a rundown on the toolkit that would be helpful.
<br>
<br>In answer to your bottom area question, we don't have a bottom batten. We just have the boom. Mostly boomless rigs have this bottom area. The only one I can think of is the N6.0. Does the 5.8 also have this bottom flap? I can't remember. I also beleive that we should measure sail area period. They can put it wherever they want. I'd bet the 6.0 would adapt a boom rig with all the sailarea uptop like conventional rigs. However they can do what they want as long as it is smaller than the max sail area allowed.
<br>
<br>Mike Hill
<br>H20 #791
<br>
<br><br><br>

Attached Files
3779- (152 downloads)

Mike Hill
N20 #1005
#3684 - 11/12/01 01:17 PM Re: Measure like this, there are a few must know thing [Re: Mike Hill]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 833
Mike Hill Offline
old hand
Mike Hill  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 833
St. Louis, MO,
For the Chute?
<br>
<br>Is the sail area RSAS, MSAS, or RSAS + MSAS?
<br>
<br>Thanks,
<br>Mike Hill
<br><br><br>

Attached Files
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Mike Hill
N20 #1005
#3685 - 11/12/01 06:37 PM Ehhh, you lost me on this one. [Re: Mike Hill]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
I think it is neither of all. The genaker is calculated via it's own formula which can be found on the Texel site and F18 / iF20/ F16 HP rules. This measurement is NOT equal to actual area, but a rough approximation of it.
<br>
<br>I don't have the formula with me now. Maybe Carl can copy paste it from the F16 rules.
<br>
<br>Wouter<br><br>

Attached Files
3793- (159 downloads)

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
#3686 - 11/12/01 06:49 PM Re: Measure like this, there are a few must know thing [Re: Mike Hill]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
>>Meetpunt's: Why would they be outside the area of the sail?
<br>
<br>To provide easy measurements on rounded sails and because when you use firmly fixed nails you can tension the measuring tape and get truelly accurate results. Not really that important for your approximate measurement. Just make sure you use teh same spot as a reference point.
<br>
<br>
<br>>>I was assuming I would use the Head tack and clew corners as my meetpunts.
<br>
<br>By all measn use them as Measurementpoints (literally translated meetpunt) , the math will ensure that you will arrive at the sail area.
<br>
<br>>So I don't understand the picture that has the meetpunt outside a rounded corner. Of course I don't have any rounded corners on my sail.
<br>
<br>Actually the math is such that it doesn't really matter much where the meetpunt is. Just place it where is convenient in measureing. Don't forget to substract the little triangles that fall outside the sail.
<br>
<br>
<br>>>Second question: Is the point where S7 and S8 meet always at the end of the first batten? And is the point where S4 and S6 meet always at the end of the second batten? Or do you try to move these points to try to make it look more like the picture?
<br>
<br>
<br>No I would just the general ratios. the lines drawndevide the sail in 1/5 part realtive to luff length. I would take the batten end approximated by these devisions. As long as it roughly looks like in the picture you do alright the math will take care of most differences in measuring.
<br>
<br>>>Would I use a big old square to try to get the H1, H2, H3, and H4? What are the tools commonly used by the pros to measure these sails. Just give me a rundown on the toolkit that would be helpful.
<br>
<br>
<br>I'm not a measurer myself but that is what I would do. For a full breakdown of the toolbox mail to geert Ruesink he is a Texel official : g.ruesink@hccnet.nl or Nico Boon himself at Nboon@hetnet.nl
<br>
<br>They are both Texel officials and were very helpful to me.
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>Good luck,
<br>
<br>Wouter
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><br><br>

Attached Files
3794- (166 downloads)

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands

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