Announcements
New Discussions
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Tornado have started #37050
08/21/04 08:20 AM
08/21/04 08:20 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Tornado_ALIVE Offline OP
Pooh-Bah
Tornado_ALIVE  Offline OP
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
http://www.sailing.org/olympics2004/results/TornadoOverall.asp

Go for Gold, Bundy / Forbes

2004 Olympics Athens News


Fri, 13 Aug 2004 to Sun, 29 Aug 2004



Olympics: Tornado and Star previews
Sat, 21 Aug 2004
Racing begins in the Tornado catamaran and Star keelboat classes in Athens today with Australian crews among the favourites.

Darren Bundock and John Forbes, silver medallists in the Tornados at Sydney 2000, have completed a very thorough campaign towards this Olympics, down to having a spare boat that is equally ready to race as their ‘front line’ boat.

They undertook a comprehensive sailcloth analysis before concluding that Dacron, with the technology going back more than 30 years had better shape retaining qualities than more recent exotic cloths utilising carbon fibre, Kevlar and other ‘exotics’

The Australian team is the only one in the Olympic Tornado fleet using a Dacron mainsail. Their sails are by Ullman Italy, Giorgio Zuccoli’s old loft, now run by Pablo Soldano.

Forbes and Bundock looked at all the synthetic options including Cuben fibre, which gave promising results for the US team at this year’s worlds and against the initial scepticism of coach Mike Fletcher decided to keep using Dacron as they had for the past four years.

They decided to accept the disadvantage of a little more weight in the cloth but did save weight by going lighter on the reinforcing, like corner patches.

‘Shape is everything and we found Dacron has best qualities,’ Forbes said. ‘The only negative is the extra weight.’

They have practised for the past three weeks on the Saronic Gulf with the Germans, Roland Gaebler and Gunnar Struckman and the Greeks Iordanis Paschalides/Christos Garefis. Yesterday the Tornados sailed a practice race.

Forbes said this morning: ‘We are going alright.’

He expects the strongest opponents will again be the Sydney gold medallists, Roman Hagara and Hans Peter Steinacher of Austria and the current world champions Santiago Lange/Carlos Espinola (Argentina).

The French, Olivier Backes/Laurent Voiron and Spaniards, Fernando Echavarri/Anton Paz, could also be up there, Forbes predicted.

Australians Colin Beashel and David Giles, world champions in 1998, Olympic bronze medalists in 1996, remain in the top frame in the star-studded Star keelboat class on form in European regattas over the past two years.

Newcomers from the Finn class – big boys who know how to hike hard – have made an impact in the class since Sydney 2000. One of them, Freddie Loof, crewed by Anders Elkstrom (Sweden) won both the world and European championship this year.

Another, Ian Percy (Great Britain), crewed by Steve Mitchell, won the world championship in 2002.

Multi-talented US sailor Paul Cayard, crewed by Phil Trinter in winning the US trials beat the 2000 gold medallist Mark Reynolds and are rated a strong chance by Colin Beashel.



by Bob Ross


-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Tornado have started [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #37051
08/21/04 09:52 AM
08/21/04 09:52 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
At last! I am not alone in thinking that dacron sails are best. If it turns out that our U.S. team does not have a chance of winning a medal, I will be rooting for "Team Dacron," Bundock and Forbes.

Re: Tornado have started [Re: Mary] #37052
08/21/04 10:33 AM
08/21/04 10:33 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 324
South Florida
SOMA Offline
enthusiast
SOMA  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 324
South Florida
I hope BRAVO shows a little more than just highlights of the races. Last night I stayed up 'til 12:30 to watch some sailing and they only had a , maybe, 8 minute blurb and then said "and that's all for sailing" and moved on.

Does anyone know if there is another channel that shows all the sailing events????

By the way, I'll be rooting for Lange and Espinosa 1st, and US 2nd.


Fred F (ex Hobie 18)
Re: Tornado have started [Re: SOMA] #37053
08/21/04 11:29 AM
08/21/04 11:29 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
ejpoulsen Offline
old hand
ejpoulsen  Offline
old hand

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
They gave the 49ers only 3 minutes--what a shame. I hope they give the fastest olympic boat more air time than that.


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
Re: Tornado have started [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #37054
08/21/04 11:30 AM
08/21/04 11:30 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 552
B
brobru Offline
addict
brobru  Offline
addict
B

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 552
Hello All,

Thanks for the post!

I know it driving us all nutzo, not being able to see what is going on.

I suspect one of the teams MAY have a website that will give the race as it happens,.....the cat folks are a pretty innovative and savvy bunch, yes!

If there is such a site, share it with us all.

Any weather report info?

regards,

Bruce
St. Croix
USVI



Re: Tornado have started [Re: ejpoulsen] #37055
08/22/04 01:16 AM
08/22/04 01:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
I think the sailing coverage has been awesome, both in quantity and quality! It would be interesting to know how much air time sailing is getting compared to the other events, but I bet it would be up there close to the top. And that would be amazing, considering that it is probably the most difficult to cover, logistically -- and probably the most expensive to cover, too.

I have never seen such extensive coverage of sailing at the Olympics, and obviously we have Gary Jobson to thank for this.

Sailing is one of the few events (maybe the only one) that goes on for the entire two weeks of the Olympics. I don't know how Gary is able to do what he is doing. His schedule has to be brutal, and everybody knows that he is doing this while battling a life-threatening and very debilitating illness.

They are getting video from powerboats on the water, from some onboard cameras, and from helicopters. They try to feature a different class every day and then also give brief clips from another class or two.

It amazes me how they are able to get all this video and audio from all the inputs, not to mention graphics, and get it produced into what is usually a half-hour program (including commercials) every night.

I have loved watching the 470's and the Ynglings and Lasers and Finns. It's fun to watch the tactics with the monohulls.

I don't like to watch the sailboards where the sailors pump their sails and they look like a bunch of butterflies -- looks more like pain and muscle than smarts.

The Tornados are going to be more difficult to cover videowise, and not as interesting tactically, I'm sure. But I hope we get a fair amount of air time.

Personally, I am more interested in watching the Star class for this last half of the sailing competitions.

Re: Tornado have started [Re: Mary] #37056
08/22/04 02:43 AM
08/22/04 02:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1
T
TornadoSi Offline
stranger
TornadoSi  Offline
stranger
T

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympics_2...ing/default.stm

In the UK we have been able to watch the sailing live on the bbc interactive service above, click the link and in the top right of the page you can access five feeds and normally there is 1 of sailing about midday GMT so far we have watched the 470s , europes, 49ers, and the whole of the last finn race and i must say it is pretty good coverage and commentary.

Re: Tornado have started [Re: Mary] #37057
08/22/04 10:21 AM
08/22/04 10:21 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
I really enjoyed the 30 seconds of the Tornados last night...seriously. After watching 15 minutes of keelboat sailing the boat speed difference was astonishing. I trust Gary will do us right and we'll get our moment!

USA is in second with points tie for first - Go Lovell and Ogletree!!


Jake Kohl
Re: Tornado have started [Re: Jake] #37058
08/22/04 10:27 AM
08/22/04 10:27 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Scratch That! Lovell and Ogletree are in first place by two points with a bullet and sixth place in two races today! Whoooohooo!

I hope we get some fine coverage tonight!


Jake Kohl
Re: Tornado have started [Re: Jake] #37059
08/22/04 11:22 AM
08/22/04 11:22 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 324
South Florida
SOMA Offline
enthusiast
SOMA  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 324
South Florida
Mary,

I must be watching the wrong channel! What channel are you watching, Bravo? Last night they had a full half hour of sailing, but nothing compared to all the swimming events. Everytime I turn on the t.v. I see nothing but swimming. AGHH! Enough of that!! I want to see some colorful sails!!!

I'm off to Cleveland.


Fred F (ex Hobie 18)
Re: Tornado have started [Re: Mary] #37060
08/22/04 01:45 PM
08/22/04 01:45 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 465
FL
sail7seas Offline
addict
sail7seas  Offline
addict

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 465
FL
In a remote control sailboat class, the mylar sails wax the dacron in all cases but one (probably due to shape). That is when it rains the mylar sails repel the water and create drops on the sails and are slow. The dacron sails ABSORB the water creating a smoother sail and kill the mylar sail. So I wonder whose Tornado sails have the lowest coefficient of friction?

Re: Tornado have started [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #37061
08/22/04 03:14 PM
08/22/04 03:14 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 552
B
brobru Offline
addict
brobru  Offline
addict
B

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 552
http://www.sailing.org/olympics2004/

This link takes you to a composite sailing page.

When you click on a respective race, say race 3, it opens to a nice page with weather, mark rounding positions and results.

If you want to see the course, click on the 'course' ( it is 'up-and-down with a gate x 3)

Looks like weather was under 9 mph ....yikes.

regards,

Bruce
St. Croix


Re: Tornado have started [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #37062
08/23/04 02:54 AM
08/23/04 02:54 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Tornado_ALIVE Offline OP
Pooh-Bah
Tornado_ALIVE  Offline OP
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia




Simone Green, Monday, 23 August 2004


Races Three and Four

In extremely light conditions the Tornado fleet contested race 3 and 4 today. Among the eight crews protesting the decisions of the Race Committee, are the Australian's Darren Bundock & John Forbes who posted a 12th and 11th in the days races. The multiple World Champions are in 11th overall.


It was also a tough day on the water for Australia's Tornado boys. Darren Bundock (AIS/NSWIS) and John Forbes (AIS/NSWIS) are currently lying 11th overall after a 12th and an 11th in today's two races.

In a light wind and tricky conditions Bundock and Forbes were penalised in race three, costing them valuable placings. The Aussies were stranded in a path of no wind, unable to do more than just float along. The pair could not get out of the way when a rival crew came through on a puff and called starboard. As a result the Australia’s were faced with the challenge of completing penalty turns in no breeze, a slow frustrating task.

The Sydney 2000 silver medallists are seeking redress, with a protest to be heard in Athens tonight.

Sydney 2000 gold medallists Roman Hagara and Hans Peter Steinacher (AUT) has been overtaken by American duo Charlie Ogletree and John Lovell in the overall point score.

Day 2 - Tornado (4 races)

1.John LOVELL/Charlie OGLETREE (USA) (2,2,1,6) 11pts
2.Roman HAGARA/Hans Peter STEINACHER (AUT) (1,3,8,1) 13pts
3.Santiago LANGE/Carlos ESPINOLA (ARG) (7,1,6,5) 19pts
11.Darren BUNDOCK/John FORBES (AUS) (9,7,12,11) 39pts

Full list of Tornado results here.


Re: Tornado have started [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #37063
08/23/04 03:29 AM
08/23/04 03:29 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Tornado_ALIVE Offline OP
Pooh-Bah
Tornado_ALIVE  Offline OP
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Here is a quote from the Yahoo Tornado Forum.

So what do you guys think.


Ogletree,
a sail maker for Ullman in Houston, discovered a new
laminate that is 20 percent lighter than what most
Tornado sailors use. "We created quite a stir in the class,"
sad Ogletree. ISAF ultimately approved the cloth for use
in the Olympics. This edge has helped make Lovell and
Ogletree one of the fastest duos in the fleet. [...]
The new laminate--both film and fibers are made of
Pentex, a polyester derivative--is the biggest breakthrough
in the class since [the new rig]. "The cloth is made of the
same raw materials as other Tornado sails," explains
Ogletree, "bit it's 20 percent lighter and stronger for its
weight." [...]
Ogletree secured exclusive
rights to use the new laminate
through the Olympic Games; it
is shared with training partners
The Netherlands and Great
Britain. The three teams,
working with Ullman's Jay
Glaser (California) and Pablo
Soldano (Italy), together have
developed sail designs. [...]
All three boats finished in
the top five at the 2004 Worlds [...].

So, the sails are exclusively available to just 3 teams...

I've no problem with the cloth. It's the exclusive supply agreement
that is unfair in a one-design class, IMHO.

--Glenn

Folks,

Sail Magazine reports that US team Lovell and Ogletree are using a main
and jib where both the fibers and laminate are made of class-legal
Pentex, and which are 20% lighter than the sails other teams are using.
Furthermore, they have secured an exclusive license to the material
from the sole supplier through the end of the Olympics, according to the
article.

It seems to me that this exclusive licensing from a supplier of emerging
technology is anti-competitive and unfair in a one design class and that
the sails should be forbidden under the "Fair Sailing" rule of the ISAF
RRS. I assume that the sails have already been measured and approved,
but I hope someone protests these sails if they do use them. This team
represents my country, I expect them to play fair.

What do you think?

--Glenn


Re: Tornado have started [Re: Jake] #37064
08/23/04 08:56 AM
08/23/04 08:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
The VCR didn't record last night - did I miss anything?


Jake Kohl
Re: Tornado have started [Re: Jake] #37065
08/23/04 10:04 AM
08/23/04 10:04 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
I just want it to get windy.....Think of the pictures / video there would have been of the Tornado's had been out when it was windy last week....


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: Tornado have started [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #37066
08/23/04 10:20 AM
08/23/04 10:20 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
carlbohannon Offline
old hand
carlbohannon  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
Concerning the exclusive rights to pentex cuban fibre, it is a lot more complex than press releases imply

This is not a case of having exclusive rights to something you just sew together.

The exclusive rights, is in exchange for developing a way to make a Tornado sail out of pentex cuban fibre. There is not a big market for polyester (pentex) cuban fibre. Most people go for the Spectra version. Only classes whose rules only allow polyester would buy it. And there has never been a big enough demand to develop a small cat sail around the unique characteristics of cuban fibre

The main is molded on a full size 3-d foam mold. I am not sure about the jib.

The 3 training partners split the cost of the mold and the development cost of the sails. The partners were chosen by "people we know, we can work with". Not everyone who was offered a share accepted.

This deal was expensive and there is no guarantee that you wall end up with a superior sail or that it will not be declared illegal. For example, There is also a cuban fibre spinnaker for the Tornado. While class rules allow laminated spinnakers, there is an ISAF rule that allows only woven material. The laminated spinnaker was declared illegal. The ISAF rule was not intended to prevent a class from choosing their sail materials. I think the ITA did not think the rule applied and did not word their rule to exclude it.

The sail cloth is not the only factor here. The sail is being shaped by Jay Glaser. 2 of the 3 best looking sails I have ever seen were Jay Glaser laminated sails. Also as Charlie once said, "the laminated sail is less forgiving than woven but once you learn to use it, it's faster"

This is what I know about the exclusive rights to pentex cuban fibre and I am sure there are other things I don't know.

In addition this is not the only "partnership" out there. The Brits have one about masts and there is at least one other one concerning sail shape.

Carl Bohannon

Re: Tornado have started [Re: scooby_simon] #37067
08/23/04 10:20 AM
08/23/04 10:20 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 254
Gower, Wales, UK
sailwave Offline
enthusiast
sailwave  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 254
Gower, Wales, UK
Quote
I just want it to get windy.....Think of the pictures / video there would have been of the Tornado's had been out when it was windy last week....


Race 5 was awesome... unlike race 6...

Get Tevo.., never fails! [Re: Jake] #37068
08/23/04 10:23 AM
08/23/04 10:23 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
RickWhite Offline

Carpal Tunnel
RickWhite  Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
Hey Jake,
Tevo really works well and we have not missed a beat. It is really great. It records all night and in the morning we watch what sports we want and delete the rest.
Rick

Last edited by RickWhite; 08/23/04 10:24 AM.

Rick White
Catsailor Magazine & OnLineMarineStore.com
www.onlinemarinestore.com
Re: Tornado have started [Re: sailwave] #37069
08/23/04 10:25 AM
08/23/04 10:25 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
Quote
Quote
I just want it to get windy.....Think of the pictures / video there would have been of the Tornado's had been out when it was windy last week....


Race 5 was awesome... unlike race 6...


Don't suppose you have it on tape ? (even better if you have it in digital format)


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  Damon Linkous 

Search

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 220 guests, and 86 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Darryl, zorro, CraigJ, PaulEddo2, AUS180
8150 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics22,404
Posts267,055
Members8,150
Most Online2,167
Dec 19th, 2022
--Advertisement--
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1