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Re: New Speed Sailing Record [Re: SteveT] #40084
11/17/04 09:14 AM
11/17/04 09:14 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
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Luiz  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Quote
I hate to generalize, but a catamaran will never go that fast, not with a crew in control of it.


A small cat, maybe. I recall a maxi-cat sailing at 44 knots once. It is hard to imagine that they would try anything in a 500 meter course, but Orange, Geronimo and the like are conceived to sail very close to the record, with equipment, crew and food on board.

The bottom line is that specially conceived craft may increase speed merely increasing size (and price) but windsurfers can not. As a consequence, windsurfers are very close to their limits, while specially conceived craft and maxi multihulls may continue to develop, if not improving the technology, merely increasing size.

One example: if someone decided to build a conventional maxi proa with the same length and technology of today's maxi cats, it will almost certinly beat the outright record. Money is the limitation.

Cheers,
Luiz


Luiz
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: New Speed Sailing Record [Re: Luiz] #40085
11/17/04 05:11 PM
11/17/04 05:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 32
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Colin Offline
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Colin  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 32
The limiting factor is viscous resistance.

Increasing the size of a catamaran certainly reduces it's wetted area compared to the displacement, but the viscous resistance increases with nearly the square of the speed (according to ITTC 1957). Some method of reducing wetted surface is essential to increasing top speeds. This is what windsurfing equipment does so well.

-colin

Re: New Speed Sailing Record [Re: SteveT] #40086
11/17/04 05:53 PM
11/17/04 05:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
This is from www.wetasschronicles.com (which is taken from www.mastersofspeed.com). I don't think we'll see them get a whole lot faster with their current configuration - at least without some serious injuries. Just listen to what it took to make that record breaking run! I'm interested to see the fun you guys have with his "technically" faster than that run statement.

Quote
"From what I had heard from Pascal, Christophe, Michel and Thierry the Mistral was a hard wind and hard to go fast in so 50-knots would probably have to wait. What arrived was beyond my wildest dreams and everyone else’s for that matter. There were stretches of wind that were almost hurricane strength with a bright blue sky! We had gotten the real Mistral, the true French wind that is so famous worldwide.

I was sharing the van with Erik and when we arrived at the beach at 9am on Saturday it was clear that it was going to be a good day. When we opened at 10am I went down the run with my big board (37.5 w/ 24 fin) and my 5.4. The time was 43.5 but I could already feel that this course was much harder than the SE and I wanted to get on smaller stuff immediately. I had to work so much more and the little gusts all the way down coming over the land were super tough. They are invisible basically so it is just a feeling and a hard-core one at that. The power surging that I felt last December 3rd when I beat 46-knots for the first time was tiddly-winks compared to this rugged North wind.

I switched down quickly to my 5.0 and tiny board (33) after several more runs that were between 43 and 44.5. I just wanted to get rid of as much surface area as I could because it was simply easier to hold down. Erik helped make a key change happen for me with my fins as I had too small of a fin in my little board that became nervous sometimes so we put a 24 in the 5.0 setup and instantly I gained directional stability and smoother average speeds.

For the first time I wore a GPS unit in my runs which was exciting and very useful to learn what was happening with my top speeds versus my average speeds. My times will be posted on www.gps-speedsurfing.com.

For those who are curious I have set a new unofficial GPS world record with a top speed of 49.3 knots!!! When I saw that and after Roger of gps-speedsurfing.com analyzed my run it was clear that I actually was averaging 48-49 knots for 400 meters of the run and I had a dip of 100 meters where I went down to 45 knots. As Erik puts it that is the ‘Mistral dip’ that happens just after the midpoint of the run so that is why my run ended up at 46.82. It was technically faster than that but that is the hard part of the ‘average’ speed calculations. One must maintain it over the full 500 meters...

It was pure gladiator fighting, the type of caveman uga-uga stuff that is hard on the mind and body. Our biggest problem was getting to the beginning of the run as there was a manageable 40-45 knots on the run but the start was freakin’ blowing 50-60…….it was insane. That is the only word that describes it. It was so hard to get up, even to get the feet in the straps, even to get the sail out of the water without it knocking you on the head super hard. The Canal was smoking with spray everywhere. It was incredible and unrideable with the gear I had. I tried pretty hard but I was tired already after the record run, which drained so much energy. I had a huge crash just before the start late in the afternoon and I got my bell rung mashing my body into the rig pretty hard. My GPS speed at the crash was 48-knots! After this I was more careful as I knew I had already broken the WR and I wanted to live to fight another day..."




Jake Kohl
Re: New Speed Sailing Record [Re: Jake] #40087
11/18/04 02:20 PM
11/18/04 02:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
here's a link to a video of the record breaking run....it's only 9mb or so this time!

http://www.wetasschronicles.com/FinianRecord.mpg

Oh and BTW...Macquarie Innovations crashed and burned yesterday - yesterday during conditions they had been waiting for (about 20knots of wind) the boat strangely veered off course and capsized. Skipper and crew are fine although it apparently took them some time to get freed from what was left of the ****. Due to the damage, they say it will probably be next year sometime before they can think about trying again.


Jake Kohl
Re: New Speed Sailing Record [Re: Jake] #40088
11/19/04 08:09 AM
11/19/04 08:09 AM

A
Anonymous
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Hi all,

this thread realy takes me back. I sailed in the first world ratified speed trials in Australia at Woodmans point south of Perth Western Aust. in about 82'or was it 83' getting to old, we thought we were great doing 28kts. in 28 kts. breeze, as always happens didn't blow as hard as the reputation of the place. There was one big guy there from Hawaii Fred Haywood but he was beaten by a little guy from France I think, Jeanne Piere Siret if I remember rightly. Technique seemed to matter more than brawn. Some Euros were wearing those streamlined suits back then and weight jackets. Cats were there, OZ's top Tornado sailer reached about 22kts. but the best surfcats were doing nearly as well. There was also a 18ft. skiff but it couldn't crack 20 kts.

I still have the speed board which was so narrow that my toes hung over one side and my heels the other. It is the only thing that bears any resemblance to the equipment they use now the fins and sails have had the most change. Sailboards will always be fast because they have so little contact with the water, the "mad scientist" contraptions will continue to come and go they were around before the sailboard.

Did you know that the skipper of Yellow Pages/Maquarie Inovations sails a A class and Taipan 4.9 sometimes with spinnaker, I have raced against him on my Mosquito with spinnaker many times and he is blown away by the downwind speed the one up Mosquito is capable of. Trying to get him hooked more on the F16 thing, hoping my new boat Altered might do it, but as you may guess he is a pretty busy guy especialy with his kids turning into top sailors, hope they to have the speed bug. They sail cats some of the time.

Oh well enough of the blast from the past, I'm showing my age.
Regards Gary.

Re: New Speed Sailing Record [Re: ] #40089
11/19/04 09:39 AM
11/19/04 09:39 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 612
Cape Town, South Africa
Steve_Kwiksilver Offline
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Steve_Kwiksilver  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 612
Cape Town, South Africa
Hi Gary, as Jake put it "we have work to do .."
Fastest cat recorded over a 500m course was, I believe, a Tornado, at 23 knots (at least what I can gather from a previous thread on the subject.) These guys are running down the trench at double that speed.

Wow, that is some claim to fame, to have sailed a speed trials against Fred Haywood. He held the record for windsurfers at 32.86 knots, in 1986 I think. (Funny, I remember the speed, not the year, must be getting on.) That was when they said it would be impossible to break Crossbow 2`s record of 36 knots. Now all the serious efforts are in the 44 knot range !!

Time to dust off your old speedboard, then

Steve

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