Sorry Brobu,

I can't help you here. Contact John Pierce Stealthmar@aol.com

Wouter

Hello All,

Once again, thanks to the sailing 'minds' out there....here comes a 'daaa' question,

1...does the foil need to be at the very tip of the rudder?

2. ..could it be ( say 25% up) and still function? (..for example, with a 2 foot rudder, could one place the foil at
1 foot 6 inches,..or 6 inches from the bottom?)


...this discussion will lead to another point..


regards

Bruce
St. Croix

Brobru,
See the post about high performance sailing (five or six posts back). International 14's are putting the foils halfway down the rudder.

Bruce

I would put the foils at the bottom.

Gives you just a little further to lift them out before you loose all "bite"

I've been told that sailing with them is fantastic untill you put the bows in so far that the T foil comes out of the water, at this point you instantly loose all the benefit of them and Splat, you are swimming.

Hello to All,

Mary, thanks for pointing me to the I14 post ( and answer),..I guess I should read closer.

Here is my question;

Could these folis be put on standard articulating rudder systems?

Granted, cartidge is best.

And, excluding braking beach wave condions.

I moved my boat from the y.c. beach back to a public beach this week. It was about a mile. I did not raise a sail, just threw the beach wheels on and floated down witht he wind. I sat on the rear crossbeam, pushing off with 1 leg when it got shallow.

Here is my observation. The rudder was locked in 'up' position. The rudder was horizontal. It was never more than 30-40% submerged ( I would steer with it).

Seeing where the foil is attached to the rudder, the aft aspect, in the 'up' position, the foil would safely not come in contact with the water ( get ripped off, etc). So. one is ok there.

I do not know about you, but when I launch, my rudders stay up until I clear the mooring area or until I have a 'clear path', or deep water( in the locked up position, and weight to the back, enough of the rudder is in the water for steerage)......when I do set the rudders, the boat is stopped or at a crawl,...down goes the rudder, then I check that they are 'locked',....and I power up and go.

Knowing this,.....could one safely use the foils on a standard 'articulating' rudder system?

I respect your ideas, comments and opinions.

regards,
Bruce
I-17
St. Croix

Bruce

I think the answer to this is no, the only way I can see is that you can fit them to kick up rudders is if you pin them down before you go out, so you must have the boat in deep enough water to be able to have the rudders fully down before you get on. I doubt you will be able to get enough rudder in the water to steer with the T completely clear of the water.

I can see no way that you will be able to steer the boat with these on unless the rudder is fully down.

If you do manage to make it work, you will have to pin them down, the loads get quite high when they are working hard, it would be a disaster if the rudders kicked up just when you were flat out and the only thing stopping you from pitchpoling is the foils.

Depends on what the reason is for the foil. If it is to create a negative wave. Then it needs to be high up on the rudder.. Im sure Bieker has a mathematical model as to exactly where..

If the foil is anti-pitchpoling then a long as it is in the water it will work. Remembering that the base of the rudder means you have only one drag creating interface. Higher up and up and you have two.

I want it all. I want cassette rudders, but I want the whole cassette to be able to kick up (like the new Farrier system). And I want T-foils, but I want them to be removable and movable to different locations. And I want the T-foils to be able to be angulated up or down depending upon what works best in different conditions and points of sail.

Am I asking too much?

I want it all. I want cassette rudders, but I want the whole cassette to be able to kick up (like the new Farrier system). And I want T-foils, but I want them to be removable and movable to different locations. And I want the T-foils to be able to be angulated up or down depending upon what works best in different conditions and points of sail.

Am I asking too much?

Nope, not if you intend building them yourself !
While you`re at it, Mary, I`ll have a set. Make them black, please.

What you`re asking for is probably do-able, with a huge amount of engineering, design and fiddling. Once you`ve built 7 prototypes and tested them thoroughly in all sorts of conditions, you`ll probably end up with something remarkably similar to the Stealth foils as the best solution. Everything has a beginning and an end, and they`re usually in the same place.

Cheers
Steve

Except for the T-foils, you might take a look at the Topcat rudder design. This might not the most fancy but has excactly what you want. I attach a page from the F2 page showing it.

Mary

You are not asking too much, but you might think that I was if I gave you a quote to build your rudders. To give you an idea, the int. 14 rudders that have been talked about cost in the region of $2000 each and you will need 2 of them, and these rudders don't have all the features that you want.

"I want it all..." OK Mary, now you are sounding like MY wife!

Timbo, your wife is interested in rudders? How lucky can a sailor be?

Just thought I'd add my two pence worth to the debate. Having sailed a Stealth for two seasons on tradition rudders I've recently purchased the new Stealth F16 with T-Foils. It was noticable from earlier light wind outings that the boat is very stable for/aft particularly downwind. A very planted feel with no noticable side affects.
However last weekend saw some decent wind and the chance to see what they could really do. Twin trapeezing everywhere, try as we might we just could get the boat to stuff the bow in. On one occassion when lossing my footing downwind and swinging forward into my crew I was sure it was cartwheel time and would have been on my old boat but nothing more than a slight bury with no water over the top of the hull.
There is another Stealth F16 at my club who has been racing with the standard rudders while waiting for his new T-Foils. There is no difference in performance between the two setups. Until it gets scary downhill that is!

John Pierce took a load of photo's and some video of the weekend so will post when we get organised.

Wouter - If you're there, I've very regretably had to pull out of Texel. Maybe see you next year.

Aaron,

Are you going to Marconi for the ECPR ?

I'm planning to be there

Cheers

Simon

Simon,

Yes, should be there for both days hopefully. John Pierce mentioned he may be going and a couple of other Stealth's from Datchet as well by the looks. I'll probably only manage Colne Pt as sailing 1-up.
See you there.

Aaron

Got a CD in the post today from John P with 150+ photo's from the weekend. Won't bore you with all of them.
Aaron

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