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#50278 - 06/10/05 03:31 PM Re: Carbon fiber a comptip? [Re: Keith]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,252
mmiller Offline
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mmiller  Offline
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California
There were a few changes that come to mind on the H20 main. When we took over from Skip Elliott for one. I am wondering if 20 sailors are still modifying the main or was this just to older sail cuts?


Hobie Cat Forums
Matt Miller
Hobie Cat Company
-- Have You Seen This? --
#50279 - 06/10/05 05:46 PM Re: Carbon fiber a comptip? [Re: mmiller]  
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 195
h17racer Offline
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h17racer  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 195
White Bear Lake, MN
Interesting and provocative discussion guys...seems non-comptip mast sails may, at times, be recut to better match the bend characteristics of the comptip and result in a faster performing platform. OK sounds plausible.

Now, if a newest technology sail material & cut were designed (ie., square top or whatever) to optimize a given boats performance would it be enhanced, or otherwise, on a H17 comptip mast?

That mast does not have diamond wires. I believe, all together different than the TheMightyHobie18 and the H20.

Consider open fleet and with all due respect to class racing rules.

It has been interesting to research the evolution of the Toronado class with masts & sails into higher performing boats.

Again, being that the H17 is near and dear to my heart (a big thank you to Hobie for continuing to build the boat, I am a fan!) would/could the governing association ever be petitioned to allow modifications to a higher level of performance? A stretch, I know, but only wondering.

Sail on, Tom G

PS. Feel free to share any pics available from the carbon fiber hang glider incident...:)?

#50280 - 06/13/05 02:40 AM Re: Sam's B.S. [Re: mbounds]  
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 606
flumpmaster Offline
addict
flumpmaster  Offline
addict

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 606
League City, TX
Just a continuation of Sam's usual style, which doesn't seem to be too popular

He's a good multi-tasker though - he's busy trolling on the yahoo beach cats group at the same time (see thread "Dark Side").

[Linked Image]


Dave Ingram is my president. tcdyc rules
#50281 - 06/13/05 07:54 AM Re: Sam's B.S. [Re: flumpmaster]  
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,879
mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
mbounds  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,879
Detroit, MI
GIS for "Sam Evans":
[Linked Image]

Nice . . . Comptips.

#50282 - 06/13/05 08:00 AM Re: Sam's B.S. [Re: mbounds]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,279
Jake Online content
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Online Content
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,279
South Carolina
OK...Ok...That's just wrong. I'm hoping that didn't come from your personal collection!


Jake Kohl
#50283 - 06/13/05 08:34 AM Re: Sam's B.S. [Re: Jake]  
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,879
mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
mbounds  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,879
Detroit, MI
Life is like Google Image Search.

[Linked Image]

"ya nevah know what your gonna get"

#50284 - 06/13/05 10:22 AM Re: Sam's B.S. & Triumph [Re: Jake]  
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 465
sail7seas Offline
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sail7seas  Offline
addict

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 465
FL

#50285 - 06/16/05 07:06 AM Re: Sam's B.S. & Triumph [Re: sail7seas]  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,655
catman Offline
Pooh-Bah
catman  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,655
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
Intresting, authority is questioned and a few people decide to answer buy trashing. Doing the same or worst.

I'll be clear I don't believe I've heard the truth here about the topic I raised.

Some of you think your going to get answers from someone who used to work at H.C..........REALLY?

I think it's clear that some of you miss or need the old forum.


Have Fun
#50286 - 06/16/05 08:11 AM Re: Sam's B.S. & Triumph [Re: catman]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
carlbohannon Offline
old hand
carlbohannon  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
I have talked to some of the principles involved in the lawsuit. As far as I could tell, it was just someone upset over the loss of a friend, going after the power company and the boat builder. They went after the boat builder on the grounds that "the technology existed to eliminate the problem but the boat builder was not including it for profit reasons".

As I understand it, Coleman settled by agreeing to change the mast because they did not want a long court battle with their name on it (they had something else going on) and they did not want any big cash settlements.

I think some of the people involved expected Hobie to adopt a fiberglass mast. They were not engineers and there were some small boats with unstayed fiberglass masts. The dealers were saying these were safe from overhead power lines. For those of you who do not know, a 1980's fiberglass mast for a Hobie would be very heavy.

The comptip was adopted because it was the most practical method of meeting the agreement.

To me it seems the comptip came about because of an agreement between 2 parties, one did not know much about catamaran sailing and one that did not know much about engineering and manufacturing.

#50287 - 06/16/05 08:26 AM Re: Comptip weight? [Re: carlbohannon]  
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Does anybody know how much more a comptip weighs than the equivalent section of aluminum mast that was on a Hobie originally?

And, does anybody know: If you have two Hobie 18's, one with a comptip and one with the original, solid aluminum mast, and if both masts are well sealed and do not contain water, which of the boats is most likely to turtle (or which will turtle the fastest) when they capsize in identical sea and wind conditions? And which is the hardest to right?

#50288 - 06/16/05 12:01 PM Re: Comptip weight? [Re: Mary]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,252
mmiller Offline
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mmiller  Offline
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Posts: 1,252
California
It is really a marginal difference, if any. Masts have always varied in weight by several pounds depending on the extrusion. I have owned 5 different 16s in my history and was racing heavily during the transition. I do not recall a big difference in stepping weight or sailing characteristics. I don't recall weighing one though or comparing that carefully.

Take away that big head casting, allow for the tappered thickness in glass as it goes up the tip and I would bet that inertia is very similar. In racing the boat there really is little difference and certainly higher winds have shown to favor the slightly different bend at the top.


Hobie Cat Forums
Matt Miller
Hobie Cat Company
#50289 - 06/17/05 09:38 AM Re: Comptip weight? [Re: Mary]  
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Posts: 1,459
Keith Offline
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Keith  Offline
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Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Mary,
When I had my 20 with the tapered comptip, the advice I had always heard was to get on the righting line ASAP after a capsize, because the tapered shape of the comptip didn't have as much bouyancy. The few times I did capsize that boat I followed that advice, and it did indeed feel like if we weren't on the line quick it would have turtled. Since I never put the comptip on my 18, I can't compare directly there, but the 18 with the solid aluminum mast (not tapered) felt more stable on its side than the 20 did. My 6.0 (fairly decent sized section, no taper) feels solid as a rock after a capsize, granted I've only done it twice. Out of the three boats, the 18 seemed to take more effort to right, with the 20 next, and the 6.0 the easiest.

With respect to the 20 comments, I think the difference is because of the tapered shape, not the fact that it's a comptip.

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