I'm considering to buy a '95 Mystere 6.0 and would like some second opinions. Overall people tell me it's a great boat, but there are a few "buts"...
1. I hear the word "fragile" being used quite frequently when people discuss the boat. Any Mystere 6.0 sailors who can confirm / reject that it's a fragile boat...in what sense...what usually breaks? How hard is it to get spare parts in the NE US?
2. The boat I am considering to buy seems to have a larger than usual spinnaker (not sure the #sq.ft). The owner told me there's so much vibration at high speeds that you loose steering. Any experience with this phenomenon and what can be done?

Thanks...

There are a bunch of Nacra 6.0s for sale in the New England area. The local dealer has everything you could need for the Nacra. Not sure about the parts for the M6.0. Send me a PM and I can send you some info.

I sail a M6.0 XL and don't know anything about fragile. I've broken a rudder casting in the surf in Daytona. But you'd expect that when the darn thing locks down before you've cleared the sandbar. Nothing else in 3 years.

The larger spin will be nice on a deep run but the smaller spins are definitely more popular now because you can carry them higher and faster.

I have had rudder problems. The adjustment nut on the top just won't hold them under far enough. If I brush the bottom or put to much pressure on, I get wicked weather helm. I've corrected that problem with shock cord wrapped around the rudder and casting a few times. No problems since I started using the shock cord.

The biggest problem you'll have is class racing. There's not enough of them around to make a class so your always in the open class or distance racing on it. If you want any more info send me a PM.

I don't think I would call the boat fragile. Mine is a 97. Been raced many times and sailed frequently. I have the standard and XL beams. They came out with a modified rudder system in about 2001. This corrected the rudder problems. Parts are easy to obtain just by calling the factory and they will ship the parts direct. The boat is great for ocean sailing. High freeboard and the centerboards make launching thru the surf a breeze. Enough bouyancy to support 3-4 people if you like sailing with friends. The boat has a large enough jib and main where the spin is only needed if you plan to race. On a beam reach this is a hard boat to beat. No problem sailing this boat to its numbers but if you hope to class race you are out of luck.

My 93'M6.0 apparently when Robbie Daniels let it out for a test sail in an older Miami-Key largo Race she lost her nose just before the Bridal tang by a bridge piling the crew had run into at speed.The course favoured the undamaged at this point leeward hull so they sailed all the way to Key Largo ! I'm pretty sure thats how that one went!Anyone else remember this event? Anyway the boat is a battle axe.And the repair is still holding. We hit some head high surf going out one time fell to the rear cross beam The boat just plowed up and over, gained speed and shot over the next set.I was pleased because there are'nt spare parts available in my area(S.E Fla)but I guess a lot of older Tornado Cat stuff would fit if needed.The hulls are themselves unique .The hulls are also like rock having fallen straight down onto the leeward one in a capsize just recently. It did'nt flex at all.They are versatile and with wings comfortable.Im still learning how to tune it though.Your NE area at least is closer to Canada .The supplier.

Extremely robust platform.
Mast subject to failure just above hounds.
Rudder system week.


GARY

My only problem was the rudder lock-down system -- popped up in deep water and would not release when beaching. My son raced one in the Worrell and renamed it "Mis-Steer."

Also, broke a mast.
Rick

The problem with the rudders was that they originally drilled the holes in the blades in the wrong place. If anyone remembers the old hobie 18 system the same thing would happen to that boat if the holes were drilled incorrectly. They moved the holes in the blades and all the problems disappeared. You could probably send a note to the factory and they can tell you the proper hole placement if you wanted to make the change yourself. I replaced the blades with the new hole placement everything has been great. No more unscheduled kick ups and you can rake the rudders as far forward as you need. I found the I had to put a 1/4 inch filler in between the blade and the casting for proper rake. The boat is very sensitive to where fore aft placement of the crew. If you are to far forward in light air you WILL get weather helm.
The other problem they had with the rudders was a bad batch of casting sent from thier fabricator. But that was back in 97-98 and I'm sure all those have been taken out of use(mostly by breaking).
As far as the mast weak above the hound. Not a problem. The mast is very bendy so you need a full cut sail. I run a pretty big spin and like all boats you just have to make sure you do not uncleat the main when running the spin.

We have one in our Fleet, and the negatives I've seen are that it is very difficult to get response and parts from the factory. Our guy lost his mast (accidently released the main while under spinnaker in a puff), and it took a LONG time to get the replacement. He's also noticed some flexing and gel coat cracks on the decks.

The fellow I bought my NACRA 6.0 from had sailed and was a dealer (I think) for the Mystere. He said in a straight line it was faster than the NACRA, but if there was any tacking or jibing involved the NACRA would come out on top - the basic difference being that the NACRA 6.0 has more rocker in the hull than the Mystere.

Thanks everyone...all good info!

Anyone had any comments on the "vibration" issue?

Good point on the lack of rocker and long waterline -- In order to turn quickly as in rounding a mark, you had to get all crew weight aft to shorten the waterline, but then slowed the boat down.
Rick

The vibration may just be the trailing edges of the rudders need to be tuned up. I have a 97 and love it! The boat is tough. Mine used almost every weekend from March to December.

I haven't had a problem with my mast. The only thing about the mast and beams for that matter is the powder coating peeling off.

The previous owner put Nacra castings on the boat and they work great.

It's a great all around boat.

Not enough rocker? you guys must be thinking of a different boat.

I didn't say not enough rocker, just less rocker than the NACRA, and was just relaying the comments from somebody who used to sell and deal both. I never realized how much rocker there is in a N6.0 hull until I bought one and spent some time looking at it...

Uh-huh. I've compared my Nacra 6.0 sitting next to a Mystere 6.0 and there is a good bit of difference in the rocker. The 6.0 seemed to tack pretty well.

The one thing about the rocker that I haven't tamed is that in light in chop if you're not powered up it hobby-horses pretty bad. I've tried different weight distribution ideas, and about the only that really helps is another knot or two of wind...

Sorry to hijack the Mystere talk with NACRA talk!

My mast broke as a result of metal fatique at the top of the hound bracket. That is the part of the mast that takes the most flex cycle abuse since the entire upper portion of the mast (above the hound) is unsupported. I truly believe that this is the start of what will be a trend since the advent of adding square top main sails and spinnakers to beachcats. I believe there will me many metal masts breaking at the hound.

The minimal "rocker" (amount of curvature, fore to aft at the keel line) makes the boat somewhat of a stern drager, tail drager. So you have to move very far forward to get her to sail upwind properly; good thing that she has extremely tall bows to allow for this. Once she's properly situated with bows depressed, she'll track straight and steady for 40 miles upwind and will hoby-horse rarely if ever at all.

Ask Rick says, this all makes her a bear to make a sudden 90º turn without loosing lots of speed.

I've been fighting with rudder problems from the first day I took possesion of her. Sometimes when I do a test-kick it looks like my transom is going to leave the boat. Many times I've had kick ups while doing 17 knots downwind; always frustating.

If I were to give the Mystere 6.0 a name (just as there is a Hobie named Fox, or Tiger), it would be "The Mystere Hyena."

The Hyena is bone crushing strong with a dragging, vulnerable tail.

GARY

Great analogy Gary.

Yes that is an excellent summary of the boat Gary so much so I think we should vote on it to officially have it as the class name.M6.0 HYENA ,and like the Hyena it looks like the sum of many parts.Niether cat nor dog or bear and in the wild savanah usually clears out all the other big cats at the kill!!! Question: What was first the N6.0 or the M6.0?

Gary, did you look at the break carefully? Was it the result of a crack that propagated from from a hole drilled in the tube, like at the masthead? If yes, there is likely a way to strengthen the mast locally to keep this from happening again. If not, there is probably little you can do in the way of add-on stuff that will help.

Structural metals take a very large number of 'cycles' to fatigue IF not stressed beyond their elastic potential (the point at which the deflection becomes a permanent bend). For steel it's many millions of cycles and quite a few millions for most aluminum alloys. Fastener holes are points of stress concentration; good engineering says that these spots should be made stronger than the rest of the structure to prevent fatigue failure. This is rarely done on a beach cat mast. Any strengthening/load spreading generally comes only from the fitting that's being attached. But the designers are fully aware of this and presumably compensate by making the whole tube thick enough to account for the most stressed areas. Excesive bending of the whole tube above the hounds is another issue altogether.

This implies that the mast is basically too weak to do the job you are asking of it. Since the M 6.0 is a relatively new boat, and designed since the chute became popular on beach cats, it's a wonder the boat came with such a mast in the first place. Of course, making it stronger would definitely carry a weight penalty, and the added weight would be in the worst possible place WRT boat performance, righting after a capsize and etc.

This highlights one key advantage for carbon masts. You can add reinforcement layers as needed to specific areas of the mast. Extruded aluminum can only be constant thickness, so if more strength is needed above the hounds, the whole mast has to get thicker and heavier.

Maybe the next thing in beach cats will be a second set of diamond wires and spreaders, just like big boats.

Jimbo