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#67016 - 03/26/06 09:45 AM Re: how many would buy an F14 in the US? really? [Re: ratherbsailing]  
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Guys:

This should work if you can't get video to play. Just pick the version you need for your operating system. Especially if it is a mov and you don't want to download Quicktime which may override Windows Media player.

http://www.divx-digest.com/software/media_player_classic.html

Doug Snell

Hobie 17
www.tcdyc.com

--Advertisement--
#67017 - 03/29/06 11:07 PM Re: how many would buy an F14 in the US? really? [Re: Phile]  
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Attached Files
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#67018 - 03/31/06 10:10 PM Re: how many would buy an F14 in the US? [Re: seaspraySteve]  
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F16's w/spin purchased in the US, not including crating/shipping, range from $13.4K (w/CF foils) to $15k.
What if AO F14 could be purchased for, say $10.7K, plus shipping?
Option 1: put together a multiple factory purchase which should also reduce shipping costs per boat.
Option 2: have it built in the US. Talks are underway with possible domestic manufacturor, cost of materials suggests building multiple sets of hulls at a time.
Alternative: finish it yourself F14 kits. Starter kit might be just the hulls, with everything else an option from same supplier or your choice of sources. Example, domestic sail lofts for sails & tramps (2 near me build A Class and Formula 16 sails). We would need a source for the masts/spars (A Class wing section, 25', boom, cross beams).
Either solution begs the question, how many are ready to buy one of these fun boats we see flying on Darryl's DVDs?


qwerpoiuasdf;lkjzxc/.,m
#67019 - 04/05/06 07:42 PM Re: how many would buy an F14 in the US? [Re: seaspraySteve]  
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see my last post, is $10,800 USD, plus shipping, too much for a new AO F14? If yes, need domestic source for the 25' wing section mast (ref: A Class), Hall only makes the full sized version (30'), and blanks start at $2500.


qwerpoiuasdf;lkjzxc/.,m
#67020 - 04/05/06 11:01 PM Re: how many would buy an F14 in the US? [Re: seaspraySteve]  
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Question is what is shipping to the US and is there any duty or import tax?

#67021 - 05/14/06 09:26 AM Re: how many would buy an F14 in the US? really? [Re: Seeker]  
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Quote

We have been so conditioned to think bigger is better…but is it really? You know what they say…a boats frequency of use is inversely proportional to its size. In other words, the smaller it is the more it is used. Maybe we should be putting our energy into getting top performance out of the smallest possible package.

Regards,
Seeker


Hi there,

I agree with this to a point. As far as F14, 16 or 18 is the boat for you, it depends a lot on your local and individual conditions.

For me and my area, my crew and I are around 165kg, sail in everything from dead flat drifters to 3m swell + a real ugly chop and 30+ kts and therefore an F18 is the boat for us.

If I had a smaller crew and was sailing on a lake or some area with less chop maybe a F16 would be the go.

On the other hand, if I lost 20kg and were sailing alone (once again on a lake or similar) it would be a difficult decision between the F14 & 16.

I seriously doubt that there would be many differences between the three in number of sailing days per year. Just as a yardstick we have had around 80 sailing days this past 12 months on the Tiger.

Reaper

#67022 - 05/14/06 01:37 PM Re: how many would buy an F14 in the US? really? [Re: C2 Mike]  
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Thing is with the F14, it is the only spinnaker boat I can think of which can reasonably be campaigned by one person i.e., be loaded on and of the trailer, rigged, launched and retrieved, and in many cases, kept in the shed / garage / driveway at home, and there are no crew hassles. They are also somewhat easier and cheaper to tow on the road than are bigger boats.
Biggest worry till now has been that 14ft cats have not been considered big enough to be taken seriously but with the much improved performance of the more recent boats, and their unique attraction as single handed boat with spinnaker, they are now a much more reasonable proposition.

Last edited by Berny; 05/14/06 03:42 PM.
#67023 - 05/15/06 02:46 PM Re: how many would buy an F14 in the US? really? [Re: Berny]  
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“For me and my area, my crew and I are around 165kg, sail in everything from dead flat drifters to 3m swell + a real ugly chop and 30+ kts and therefore an F18 is the boat for us.”

If I had a smaller crew and was sailing on a lake or some area with less chop maybe a F16 would be the go.

On the other hand, if I lost 20kg and were sailing alone (once again on a lake or similar) it would be a difficult decision between the F14 & 16.”

>>>First of all I solute you if you can sail any beach cat in a true sustained 30+kts, with any degree of control or survival. 30+knts on a 7’-10” X 20” high wind sailboard is a handful (and fun) for the experienced…let alone a catamaran…maybe you exaggerated a bit…LOL…maybe more than a bit….LOL… If you are inclined to exaggerate as much as my windsurfing buddies 30 knts is usually read as 22-25 mph on the wind gauge….LOL and when it’s truly blowing 30 knots they swear up and down it’s 50 mph…LOL If you truly are that good, my apologies…

>>>It’s funny you and I are looking at the F-14 platform from opposite perspectives. …I personally would rather be on a smaller platform when in high winds, heavy seas, and on a larger one in lighter winds… I use to love riding, (and on rare occasions) jumping waves in the mouth of our inlet and offshore reefs with my Hobie 14…it was a drag when the wind was light…but once the wind came up it was a blast.

>>>I can see why you would like to share the experience with a crew if they were up to the task. I agree that your equipment of choice might increase your versatility.

>>>Personally I would rather be out with a couple of F-14’s, instead on one F-18. To me it would kind of be like surfing VS surfing tandem. It’s just more fun when you are on a platform that is lighter and more responsive.

>>>Of course I am talking about playing around in the swells (in the Atlantic Ocean in my case), not racing. To me “high performance playing around” is way under rated by the sailing community, and “racing” is way over rated. The impromptu racing that happens every time two boats meet on the water satisfies any racing needs I might have…LOL

>>>There is another potential here that hasn’t been touch upon…making an F-14 that can be quickly broken down and set up. With a Minimum weight of 60 kg, the parts could be easily shuttled to and from the beach and assembled by a single person. About the same as carrying two kayaks down to the beach. In essences, if you could windsurf a spot, you could sail it with your F-14. Two adults could carry the assembled hulls/deck beams /tramp/rudders in one trip. This could open up a lot of coast that is not currently open to Catamarans.

>>>This might not be a factor in your area, but where I live there is no way to Ocean launch from the beach because of Sea Turtle protection. If you can carry it down to the waters edge everything is fine…but there is no way to move a 400 lb assembled boat from the parking lot to the water (unless you are going to bring six people to carry it in the soft sand…no cat trax...and if you could find a place wide enough for it to pass thru.) The alternative is to sail it out the inlet which was fine years ago (like I did with my h-14)…but now when the fishing tournaments have as many as 400 boats (plus at least that many in normal traffic) it is hard to thread the needle with a power boat let alone a un-powered sailboat. Add to the mix trying to tack into the predominately on-shore wind, and tacking against a 5 mph tide when it is comming in. You soon come to the reality that there is no where to go in this constricted waterway.

>>>Regards,
>>>Bob

#67024 - 05/16/06 09:26 AM Re: how many would buy an F14 in the US? really? [Re: Seeker]  
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You shouldn't have to break an F14 apart much to carry it to the water. Two people could easily lift the assembled platform (likely a fully assembled boat) and walk it to the water.

We're only talking ~150lbs here. If it wasn't so large and awkward one person could just pick it up and walk it to the water.


G-Cat 5.7M #583 (sail # currently 100) in Bradenton, FL Hobie 14T
#67025 - 05/16/06 04:52 PM Re: how many would buy an F14 in the US? really? [Re: Sycho15]  
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There is absolutely no good reason to make an F14 which could be carried by one person. A wind surfer already caters very well for that situation. A 60 kilogram F14 would probably cost something like $20,000 to build and sell for 30. NO ONE would buy one!

I agree that sailors most often exaggerate wind velocity.

One person carrying 150lbs any distance over sand????!!!! The 'Terminator' maybe. Not me though.

#67026 - 05/16/06 05:31 PM Re: how many would buy an F14 in the US? really? [Re: Berny]  
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Last I checked and the exchange rate was slightly better, a Darryl built AO F14 without sails was just under $11k USD, plus shipping. Got an estimate for main and spin from a local loft that makes A Class and Tornado sails...main $1200, spin $800 plus battens. This puts an AO F14 at about the starting price for a US built Blade F16. We need a US builder, I'm told Vectorworks declined, and the builder I'm working with in Calif is taking a long time to find small amounts of perishible materials (CF, Vynlester, etc). It would be easier if we could order 5-10 sets of hulls at a time. Will post again if/when I make progress.


qwerpoiuasdf;lkjzxc/.,m
#67027 - 05/16/06 05:51 PM Re: how many would buy an F14 in the US? really? [Re: Seeker]  
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>>>This might not be a factor in your area, but where I live there is no way to Ocean launch from the beach because of Sea Turtle protection. If you can carry it down to the waters edge everything is fine…but there is no way to move a 400 lb assembled boat from the parking lot to the water (unless you are going to bring six people to carry it in the soft sand…no cat trax...and if you could find a place wide enough for it to pass thru.) The alternative is to sail it out the inlet which was fine years ago (like I did with my h-14)…but now when the fishing tournaments have as many as 400 boats (plus at least that many in normal traffic) it is hard to thread the needle with a power boat let alone a un-powered sailboat. Add to the mix trying to tack into the predominately on-shore wind, and tacking against a 5 mph tide when it is comming in. You soon come to the reality that there is no where to go in this constricted waterway.

>>>Regards,
>>>Bob [/quote]

We certainly don't go out by choice in 30kt conditions but we have been caught a couple of times. Definatly not fun but it can and does happen. We usually don't go out if the wind is above 20 kts (dry sand starting to lift off the beach).

We don't have the turtle problem here. The boats are stored in the yard and we only have to put up a jib & main and roll it down the beach (less than 50m) and we go sailing.

I guess it is all about why one goes sailing. For me, it is racing - we race, and when we are not racing, we are working on improving our skills and doing things better for when we do race. Just sailing about bores me to tears <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />. I can see that for some people it is totally the opposite. Bottom line is - enjoy what you are sailing and respect that your boat doesn't necessarily suit everybody!

Tiger Mike

#67028 - 05/17/06 11:16 AM Re: how many would buy an F14 in the US? really? [Re: Berny]  
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"There is absolutely no good reason to make an F14 which could be carried by one person. A wind surfer already caters very well for that situation. A 60 kilogram F14 would probably cost something like $20,000 to build and sell for 30. NO ONE would buy one!"

>>The A&O is only 75KG's all up if I am reading the info correctly...I would think that the platform (hulls/beams/tramps/rudders...without the mast/rigging/sails) weigh no more than 60 KG's.

>>>If the hulls could be quickly assembled/disassembled, the individual hulls would be as light, or lighter than two typical Glass Kayaks. Like wind speed, cost of construction is also often exaggerated...LOL

>>>I love windsurfing, and have been actively involved in it since 1986...but its not my vehicle of choice if the wind is lighter than 18 mph or for going distances of more than a mile or so from my launch site. An F-14 Cat would be much more comfortable for that.

Regards,
Bob

#67029 - 05/17/06 03:57 PM Re: how many would buy an F14 in the US? really? [Re: Berny]  
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Quote
One person carrying 150lbs any distance over sand????!!!! The 'Terminator' maybe. Not me though.


I've carried two girls across the beach before, one under each arm. They weighed ~105lbs each. Of course, it was much less awkward than trying to carry a 14x8' boat.


G-Cat 5.7M #583 (sail # currently 100) in Bradenton, FL Hobie 14T
#67030 - 05/17/06 04:40 PM Re: how many would buy an F14 in the US? really? [Re: Sycho15]  
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Arnold?! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

#67031 - 05/17/06 07:14 PM Re: how many would buy an F14 in the US? really? [Re: Berny]  
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Not at all, I was ~ 18-19 years old and all of 150lbs. I had taken them out sailing and they didn't want to get their feet sandy before getting in their dad's (very expensive) car to go to the restaurant.

Now that I think about it, it may have been one over each shoulder, not under each arm... it was a while ago and my memory isn't as good on details as I wish it was. I do remember it tired me out some and it took me longer than usual to put the G-Cat on the Cat-Trax and wheel it up the beach to my tie-down.


G-Cat 5.7M #583 (sail # currently 100) in Bradenton, FL Hobie 14T
#67032 - 05/17/06 10:16 PM Re: how many would buy an F14 in the US? really? [Re: Berny]  
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you did mean "Arnold" from "Happy days"?

#67033 - 05/17/06 10:25 PM Re: how many would buy an F14 in the US? really? [Re: Darryl_Barrett]  
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Darryl how much does a single
A&O hull weigh… Stripped down hull, no boards, no rudder, no beams?

Regards,
Bob

#67034 - 05/17/06 10:45 PM Re: how many would buy an F14 in the US? really? [Re: Seeker]  
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finished hull closed ready to attach beams etc, with chainplates mounted for side stays and bridle, and rudder gudgeons, 16.5kgs.

#67035 - 05/20/06 10:25 PM Re: how many would buy an F14 in the US? really? [Re: Darryl_Barrett]  
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36.38 pounds for the metrically challenged


G-Cat 5.7M #583 (sail # currently 100) in Bradenton, FL Hobie 14T
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