I wonder who the dope was that wrote this "the new Corsair Sprint 750 takes performance and fun to the next level: it offers all the performance and flexibility of a beach catamaran with none of the annoyances. It won't go into irons, it will tack and go to weather as well as or better than any monohull (and certainly better than any beach cat),"

At least they put a hot chick in the photos.

Bill,

There seems to be a misunderstanding here.

The seating of the beams with epoxy or whatever is NOT considered "glueing" by the F16 class.

Actually all F16 builders use the technique of seating the beams to make the beam/hull joint as stiff as possible. This is actually a good procedure to get the best performance out of the Alu beam setup. We consider this a critical point in the F16 designs. Of course when the beams are seated, the bolts are still needed to secure the beams to the hulls.

Glueing is the technique where the only joint between the beam and hull is the glue and once cured this joint is permanent. In effect this means that the boat can not be dissassembled without taking out a hacksaw or chainsaw and seperating the two parts by destructive means.

The F16 rules state that the beams, hulls and trampoline must be able to be disassembled by non-destructive means. It doesn't state that it must be easy to do so. Effectively this means that seating is therefor allowed, glueing is not. A good knock will release a seated beam when the bolts are undone and right afterwards it can be fitted again in order to make the boat ready to sail. Of course a permanently glued beam can't be dissassembled.

I don't expect any policing issues. Glued in beams are not too difficult to spot, there are tell tale differences in beam landing design, and besides these boats can't be shipped to larger international events anyway as the boat simply won't fit into a shipping container when permanently assembled.

This is also the reason why the builders won't design or supply boats with glued beams; shipping them to the customer is just pain in the neck if not ridiculously expensive.

If think this class rule is actually one of the better F16 rules; it really keeps the cost of an F16 down to a level that is really competitive, without holding back the design in performance in any significant way.


Wouter

Stocks = rudder castings, the things that take the rudder boards themselfs and secure them to the sterns and link them up to the tiller bar. Of course you can't cast carbon so the name had to be changed into something else. The Aussies called these things stocks and so we started calling them that way too.

See below a picture of the AHPC carbon rudder and carbon stock as used on the Taipans. The Blade design uses a similar design. I believe it has been redesigned for the 2006 Blade, so it is different from the early carbon stock option that were delivered with the Blade (2005 and prototypes), Same applies to the rudderboard itself.




Wouter

AFAIK Wouter, these things have been called rudder stocks for many, many years by all english speaking nautical nations.....

My ideal order would look like this :

standard boat (US$ 12,900) with the following upgrades :

Kevlar hulls (US$700)
Pentex sails (US$325)
1:12 Internal downhaul system (US$100)
Sta-Master shroud adjustment system (US$35 ) Because this upgrade is just so darn cheap.

Total; US$ 14,000

They other options are cool, but not really necessary.

I've seen the new alu stocks up close and I would be more then happy to have those on my boat. Carbon dagger- and rudderboards; the difference in performance to plain glass will be really small if any. You really have to be a very skilled sailor to notice the difference at all.


Wouter

There is not much weight difference at all between the two setups. The gelcoat and foamcore make up a large part of the overall weight anyway and these are exactly the same in both version.

An F16 daggerboard will come in at about 1.2 kg = just shy of 3 lbs. As comparison, F18 daggerboards are typically 3 to 4.5 kg (= 7 to 10 lbs)

An F16 rudderboard will come in at about 1.0 kg = just over 2 lbs.

An F16 ruddersetup (alu stock) will typically come in at 5 kg (11 lbs) including 2 stocks, 2 rudderboards, tiller bar and tiller extension. In order to compare, an F18 rudder setup is about 10 - 12 kgs (22-26 lbs).


The real difference between carbon boards and glass boards is the lateral stiffness of the board. This translates into a more crispy feel when steering. It is hard to quantify this difference, but it is certainly not huge. If you have the budget for it then this upgrade won't hurt you, but when pressed this is the first upgrade that I advice anybody to drop.

I personally have the carbon rudder boards and the glass daggerboard. If I would buy anew then I'm not sure whether I would buy the carbon upgrades again.

I hope this helps

Wouter

Should be about the same. Most is just gelcoat repairs and that is the same for both versions. Real laminate repair is beyond most amateurs anyway and even that is not much different between both versions.

Wouter

I've felt the difference between the two foam cores myself. Some development that went into the 2006 Blade F16 model were done here in the Netherlands. I can tell you that the difference is significant. Even the bare foam can't be dented without using a tool like a hammer. After adding the Kevlar (or glass) layer it should be more resistant still.

Vectorworks Marine made a good call here. They could have used the weight savings to produce a boat that would be under minimum class weight, but then you would just have to carry lead under the dolphinstriker to compensate. It is much better to use these weight savings to maximize abuse and dent resistance.

Wouter

Is Vectorworks using the same foam in the XJ and the Blade?

I believe they are using Corecell in the XJ.

Its good stuff.

http://www.spsystems.com/solutions/...cell_A_Foam.pdf#search='corecell%20foam'

Welcome to the club. Make sure you remain in contact with the A-cat as well as the F16 guys, you can learn heaps of trim tips from the A-catters. Alot of tuning for the A will work on the F16 as well as the two rig are closely related.





Actually the orginal designer of the Blade F16 sails his Blade solo ALOT. He really wanted it to be a good singlehander in addition to being a competitive doublehander for this very reason. He really took the double use of it into account when designing, from the ground up.

Wouter

Why can't you accomplish glued in stability with a removable beam along these lines. The beam would slide into a permanently fastened receptor on the hull, it would be supported from all sides but could be bolted in so that the beam could be removed if needed.

If it was a composite beam the end might even have a very slight taper which would further enhance the fit.

Seems like a relatively simple solution of accomplishing both goals...that is the stiffest possible mounting while still allowing the beams to be removed.

Regards,
Seeker

Indeed,

We sought to allow such solutions in the F16 class, that is why we require "the ability to be disassembled without destructive means" and why we didn't outlaw glueing directly.

Wouter

I need to buy an F16 and then glue it together and argue with the Woutmiester on the definition of "destructive means."

I still think thats a silly rule.

Most catamarans are build so they can be disassembled. So why legislate something thats a minority and wont really impact the class?

By the way, I'm in favor of less rules, not more in any class (or government)

What's to be gained from these upgrades, for the average sailor?

OK, our situation, 1,000 of miles from oceans, all inland lakes, predominately medium to heavy air, big wide open lakes where the white caps roll and powerboats too! Short distance between and steep waves prevail.

Are these conditions tolerable for an A cat or F-16? The H16 really hobby horses under these conditions, obviously the TheMightyHobie18 is better, the H20 is best, but all have much more displacement. Does the bouyancy of these new hull designs affect/help performance in the described conditions?

Hell, why not! Everybody else has!

I'm willing to take the chance!

Kevlar adds a very lightweight but strong layer of protection to the hulls, mostly for impact resistance.
Pentex is one of the better laminates in modern sails. Two times the stretch resistance of Dacron and slightly better UV resistance.
The bigger downhaul system makes it easier to use than a lower purchase system and may allow you to apply more downhaul because of that. One of the most important things in modern catamarans is the need and ability to depower your boat when the wind comes up so as to keep it controllable and keeping as much forward momentum as possible. Pulling the downhaul flattens the sail and spills the excess wind off of the top of the fathead sail. More downhaul = more control and faster speeds in bigger winds.
The shroud adjusters allow you to tighten or loosen your stays without having to take the pins out. This makes it much easier to adjust your rig for wind conditions, sail plan, and crew weight.
If you are going to be racing at all and you can swing it all of those options will make your boat a better investment and a better sailing craft.
Good luck,

Bill,

You making a rather silly assesment here.




Both A-cats and F16's are nothing like most catamarans, you after all you should know that.

A large portion of the A-cats are glued together, if not all new A-cats sold. Doing so with F16's would have seriously impeded, if not totally halted, the establishment of the F16 class.

It is one of the best rules we ever included. The builders were quite happy with it.

Wouter

That exactly the right describtion for it. Average sailor (or rather average racer). For the all out obsessed race all upgrades are attractive, but for the more average joe truly only a smaller selection is.


-1- Kevlar hulls (US$700)

I have it from various sources that kevlar hulls are the best lightweight hulls in the way of abuse resistance. One such source has been working professionally on A-cats fro many many years; a second source was actually the first builder to have included kevlar in their boats; also a guys with heaps of experience in boat building, boat repair and development.

From personal experience with working with Kevlar I know that the stuff is insanely resistant to rupture and damage. You can't break or tear pieces off; something you can do with plain glass and carbon. Carbon as a matter of fact can even act quite brittle, glass will bend and flex a little, Kevlar beats both at this game.

With lightweight hulls to balancing act is always between strength, stiffness and abuse resistance of the hulls. I PERSONALLY feel that kevlar has the right balance here resulting in a lightweight hull that is sufficiently stiff and more then sufficient abuse resistant, if there is such a thing as sufficient abuse resistance ! Of course more resistance is always welcome.


-2- Pentex sails (US$325)

The other post by Lance covers this pretty well. In addition is looks good as well, modern. Having said this I believe that a high quality dacron is not to be discarded too quickly either. HQ dacron will produce very long lasting sails with ample speed. For recreational sailing dacron could well be the better choice. For racing Pentex is just a little more promising although I have gotten my butt kicked by HQ dacron sails plenty of times. We are talking final bits of a few % performance here. Important if you are a top of the line racer, not nearly as important if you are a sub topper or a joined recreational sailor/club racer.

In addition, I feel pentex has the right amount of sensitivity to trim without being overly sensitive, something I feel other modern sailcloths have, like monofilm. You want the sail to stretch a little. No stretch will again make optimal tuning and trimming very difficult.


-3- 1:12 Internal downhaul system (US$100)

The best downhaul system I ever used especially when solo sailing. It is fitted internally in the mast so your mast looks really clean and the blocks/lines are well protected from the weathering. The last will maintain optimal operation through hard use and long times. Doing repairs on it (much less often then other downhaul systems) is actually not a difficult or time consuming task. You can take the whole system out, do your thing and put it back in inside 60 to 90 minutes, that is when working at a normal relaxed pace. But I can assure you that this system will only need very very little maintenance or repairs. One in every few years at the most.


-4- Stay masters.

I have got a better system on my own boat, but the next best thing are the stay-masters. In principle the staymasters allow you to quickly adjust shroud tension and mast rake with the sails up and the boat fully rigged. This way it is very easy to adjust these settings between races or when switching from racing solo to doublehanded or in reverse. For recreational sailing you can leave mast rake as it is, but for some highly competitive racing the adjustment of the mast rake can just get that extra bit of balance into the boat and win you several boatlengths. And of course this upgrade is darn cheap, you can't buy staymasters for such low cost as aftermarket items.

Wouter