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Re: Would money prizes be good or bad for the sport? [Re: SteveT] #72509
04/12/06 12:19 PM
04/12/06 12:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,113
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mark Schneider  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,113
Annapolis, MD
Whose Money do you want to give away?

Are you talking about awarding a sponsor’s prize money to a mixed fleet of pro’s and amateurs?

Are you talking about a Pro grand prix series… aka the Volvo 40’s?

Are you talking about cash prizes raised by the entry fee’s of the mixed fleet of pro’s and amateurs and the regatta management chose to not purchase trophies and gave cash instead?

Are you talking about large cash prizes raised by charging a steep entry fee and raised from a mixed fleet of pro’s and amateurs? (Similar to the Poker Tournament that are so popular these days)

These are events that have run in the past with cash prizes.

The F18HT class had one successful regatta in Virginia Beach about 4 years ago awarding significant cash to 5 deep.

The Seacrets Cup in Ocean City MD awarded about a 1000 bucks in cash plus silverware for three years before they realized that the local sailors who they wanted to support were not served by this kind of event. It morphed to a race that required a skipper and a kid racing on a 16 during the week.

The Volvo 40’s hit the USA in about two weeks.

The New England 100 awarded cash prizes from the entry fee’s in one of it’s last runs.

As far as I know, nobody has organized an event like a poker tourney with steep entry fee’s which award a significant cash prize to the winner.


My take home message from running or attending some of these events is that the CASH PRIZE is not sustainable. All of these events have not succeded long term.

Racing for the pickle dish... is sustainable!

Promoters run events with cash prizes.... Clubs run events with pickle dishes...

I personally choose to spend my time working with clubs which award the pickle dish....

Some of those pickle dishes are really OLD and mean quite a lot in the end.

Check out this site: NYC photo's



Last edited by Mark Schneider; 04/12/06 12:27 PM.

crac.sailregattas.com
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Would money prizes be good or bad for the sport? [Re: Mark Schneider] #72510
04/12/06 12:45 PM
04/12/06 12:45 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
I was not thinking in terms of professional racing circuits. I was thinking in terms of the kinds of regular, round-the-cans regattas that all us "normal" sailors go to. What if some of those were able to get sponsorship that provided prize money in addition to trophies?

NOT money that would come out of the pockets of the sailors themselves -- entry fees would be the same as usual. Everything would be the same as usual, EXCEPT for the money prizes.

Re: Would money prizes be good or bad for the sport? [Re: Mark Schneider] #72511
04/12/06 01:07 PM
04/12/06 01:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 393
Syracuse,N.Y
pbisesi Offline
enthusiast
pbisesi  Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 393
Syracuse,N.Y
Most entry fees barely cover basic regatta expenses.
It's not easy to find sponsorship for any small cat racing so the money would probably have to come from registrations.
I would not want to pay more entry fee so that the top 5 will get prize money knowing that I have almost no chance of ever making it into that top 5 in any large event.
When you look at a Nationals or Worlds there are only a few people that have a chance to win.

The Sharks in Canandaigua have had a board at their event where you can pay to enter and pick what you think your finish position will be.
If you're right you win. You can finish 52 and be the big winner.

You could just draw 5 random finish positions at the end and award those people equal prize money. This might keep everyone interested and willing to pay a little more.

I would prefer to leave it alone and get my picture taken with the $7 trophey that cost me $1000 to get and be able to look back at it later and remember some good times.

Last edited by pbisesi; 04/12/06 01:09 PM.

Pat Bisesi Fleet 204
Re: Would money prizes be good or bad for the sport? [Re: pbisesi] #72512
04/12/06 01:38 PM
04/12/06 01:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,113
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mark Schneider  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,113
Annapolis, MD
Quote
It's not easy to find sponsorship for any small cat racing so the money would probably have to come from registrations


Indeed!

You can burn up your fleet volunteers just LOOKING for sponsorship money.

Take a look at the monohulls as well... They don't have sponsored events with cash prizes... Hell they don't even allow advertising on the sails in their races!

They put what sponsorship money they get into a bigger and better party or trophy.

As Pat noted... it's not the cash or seven dollar trophy that you want... its the priceless memory!

Your local club dues probably just cover the cost of keeping the fleet organized, insured and awarding some trophies at the end of the year.. The regatta fee is high enough so that you hope to make a few bucks that cover the use and replacement of the equipment and offers a free beer to the fleet member who put up the tent.... fetched the beer, put together the trophies, designed the art work, staffed the mark boat, scored the regatta, posted the results, wrote the PR, NOR, Sailing Instuctions, ogranized the food, took the trash out of the park... etc etc etc etc.

ITS A CLUB.... NOT A BUISNESS.... if you don't pitch in and do it...odds are ... it won't get done.

I often feel that people act like they are buying a service from Walmart. OR.. that they are some how entitled to a nice regatta...

If you had to pay the staff of an event just minimum wage for all of the services you get.... You would be broke.

It's a CLUB....run by volunteers for IT's MEMBERS!

Hint... it's time to join US Sailing, Your Club and your Regional Sailing Association which makes things happen in your area. It's ONE HELL OF A DEAL!

Rant off
Mark




crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Would money prizes be good or bad for the spor [Re: Mark Schneider] #72513
04/12/06 07:47 PM
04/12/06 07:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,296
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,296
South Carolina
Quote
Quote
It's not easy to find sponsorship for any small cat racing so the money would probably have to come from registrations


Indeed!

You can burn up your fleet volunteers just LOOKING for sponsorship money.

Take a look at the monohulls as well... They don't have sponsored events with cash prizes... Hell they don't even allow advertising on the sails in their races!

They put what sponsorship money they get into a bigger and better party or trophy.

As Pat noted... it's not the cash or seven dollar trophy that you want... its the priceless memory!

Your local club dues probably just cover the cost of keeping the fleet organized, insured and awarding some trophies at the end of the year.. The regatta fee is high enough so that you hope to make a few bucks that cover the use and replacement of the equipment and offers a free beer to the fleet member who put up the tent.... fetched the beer, put together the trophies, designed the art work, staffed the mark boat, scored the regatta, posted the results, wrote the PR, NOR, Sailing Instuctions, ogranized the food, took the trash out of the park... etc etc etc etc.

ITS A CLUB.... NOT A BUISNESS.... if you don't pitch in and do it...odds are ... it won't get done.

I often feel that people act like they are buying a service from Walmart. OR.. that they are some how entitled to a nice regatta...

If you had to pay the staff of an event just minimum wage for all of the services you get.... You would be broke.

It's a CLUB....run by volunteers for IT's MEMBERS!

Hint... it's time to join US Sailing, Your Club and your Regional Sailing Association which makes things happen in your area. It's ONE HELL OF A DEAL!

Rant off
Mark





OK...let's focus here. This is not about how or what it would take, but is it a good idea if the cash was readily available for a purse at the end of the regatta with no additional output from the sailors? We have such a regatta in Myrtle Beach - the Sun Fun Dash which is a distance race running up and down North Myrtle Beach (multiple times) during their Sun Fun Festival. The North Myrtle Chamber of Commerce puts up somewhere around $2000 for prizes that are divided for the top three positions in two classifications. ($500 for first, $300 for second, $150-200 for third). You have to fill out a tax form if you win prize money.

I can say that even with the purse, the turnout to this regatta has been a bit small...although I don't think the sailors talk much about it because they want a better shot at the purse! Seriously though, it has not affected our actions on or off the water one bit and we still have a great time. It's only a trophy of a different sort.

Personally, I've seen a lot more tit-for-tat and what I might consider "unsportsman-like" behavior on and off the water lately. It's more about the personalities than the prize at the end of the regatta.


Jake Kohl
Re: Would money prizes be good or bad for the spor [Re: Jake] #72514
04/12/06 09:22 PM
04/12/06 09:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,012
South Australia
Darryl_Barrett Offline
old hand
Darryl_Barrett  Offline
old hand
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,012
South Australia
This is a very old and tired argument. There is nothing wrong with "normal" cat sailors racing for prize money, the problem isn't in the concept, the problem is, and has always been that "normal" races between cats has never been able to attract anyone/business to put up any reasonable and ongoing money for "cash prizes" other than the occasional sporadic small amount in the short term. There just isn’t the return on the investment. Many people have tried over the years to organise “cash prize money” races at the “off the beach” level, and none have ever been able to “go the distance”.

Re: Would money prizes be good or bad for the spor [Re: Darryl_Barrett] #72515
04/12/06 10:16 PM
04/12/06 10:16 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 576
BobG Offline
addict
BobG  Offline
addict
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 576
I concur Mr.Barrett.Companies like the new beachcat division Vector Marine is sitting in a ripe position to set up a money stakes race.With their f18 or f16 should it come here to the US. there are to many ego's and probable law suites in the way........

Re: Would money prizes be good or bad for the spor [Re: BobG] #72516
04/13/06 06:33 AM
04/13/06 06:33 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 503
BrianK Offline
addict
BrianK  Offline
addict
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 503
I think Matt (VMI) has been using his millions from selling beachcats buying Lexus's, helicopters, and the sort. Greedy bastard.

Re: Would money prizes be good or bad for the spor [Re: BrianK] #72517
04/13/06 09:12 AM
04/13/06 09:12 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 576
BobG Offline
addict
BobG  Offline
addict
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 576
Does'nt prize money also come from getting other businesses to sponsor the race with Vector marine for example heading up the project.So Vector marine is going in the tank ,Greedy bastards!Thanks Brian for the heads up.

Re: Would money prizes be good or bad for the spor [Re: BobG] #72518
04/13/06 09:42 AM
04/13/06 09:42 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 503
BrianK Offline
addict
BrianK  Offline
addict
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 503
I was just joking around about Matt! Although when he gets his helicopter he better take me for a ride.

Re: Would money prizes be good or bad for the spor [Re: BrianK] #72519
04/13/06 11:17 AM
04/13/06 11:17 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 576
BobG Offline
addict
BobG  Offline
addict
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 576
Quote
I was just joking around about Matt! Although when he gets his helicopter he better take me for a ride.
When ever have I been taken seriously? I think really they should just put a brand new boat for first top of the line from whoever puts the show on get sponsors to pay for it or 1 million dollars! You get the same uuhh's and aahh's.

Re: Would money prizes be good or bad for the spor [Re: BobG] #72520
04/14/06 12:58 PM
04/14/06 12:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 805
Gainesville, FL 32607 USA
dacarls Offline
old hand
dacarls  Offline
old hand
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 805
Gainesville, FL 32607 USA
So-- Who has access to a model RC helicopter with a digital video camera on it, and a big tank of glow fuel?


Dacarls:
A-class USA 196, USA 21, H18, H16
"Nothing that's any good works by itself. You got to make the damn thing work"- Thomas Edison
Re: Would money prizes be good or bad for the spor [Re: dacarls] #72521
04/14/06 01:08 PM
04/14/06 01:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 141
Panama City Beach, FL
steveh Offline
member
steveh  Offline
member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 141
Panama City Beach, FL
There's an autonomous model helicopter with a digital camera linked to the ground station via radio in the next cubicle. I don't think I can borrow it, however. $$

Re: Would money prizes be good or bad for the spor [Re: steveh] #72522
04/14/06 02:11 PM
04/14/06 02:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,879
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
mbounds  Offline
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,879
Detroit, MI
Sorta like this?:
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Re: Would money prizes be good or bad for the spor [Re: mbounds] #72523
04/14/06 08:18 PM
04/14/06 08:18 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Tornado_ALIVE Offline
Pooh-Bah
Tornado_ALIVE  Offline
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Australian Skiff scene.......

Skiff clubs a decked out with pokies, water views, restraunts, bars...... People from sailors to old salties to non sailors come to the club for a feed, a few drinks and put some money through the pokies whilst watching the on the water action.

By law, in Australia a club must return a certain % of funds generated through the pokies back to the sport the club is built around. Most Skiff clubs will pay their sailors both starting money, finishing money and there are cash prizes based on both line honours and handicap. This makes the sailing more afordable = more sailors on the water = more people visiting the club. I have heard that starting and finishing money is enough at some clubs to pay off a new boat every 3 to 4 years.

Some other skiff clubs spend some off the money on junior development programs whilst other clubs supply boats and have marketing people empolyed by the club to find sponsors for boats.

The Yarra Bay 16 Skiff Club in Sydney is now offering Catamaran sailors $100 for a Yardstick win every first week of the month with the remaing 3 weeks the winner on personal handicap walks away with the $100. Not big $$$$$ but is the first time I know off where Cats have been offered the $$$$$. Only a new concept for them so we will wait and see how it goes.


Re: Would money prizes be good or bad for the spor [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #72524
04/14/06 09:46 PM
04/14/06 09:46 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
What exactly is a "pokie"?

Re: Would money prizes be good or bad for the spor [Re: Mary] #72525
04/14/06 10:23 PM
04/14/06 10:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,446
Central Coast NSW Australia
phill Offline
veteran
phill  Offline
veteran
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,446
Central Coast NSW Australia
Mary,
The One Armed Bandit or Poker Machine may be know to you by the term slot machine.

Regards,
Phill


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

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