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Ugly day #74122
05/03/06 06:15 PM
05/03/06 06:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 169
Upstate, South Carolina
SunnyZ Offline OP
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SunnyZ  Offline OP
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Upstate, South Carolina
I am still learning to sail and for my sixth day on a boat yesterday my pal David let me take a Sunfish out. Okay, this was the first time I have been on anything alone and I had a lot of fun but there were several times that it was so ugly I just had to throw my head back and laugh. I really need some cooperation from mother nature at this point. I need the wind at more than 4mph to come from one direction constantly and not change. Is that so much to ask? This lake has wind jumping around all over it. I was supposed to go around upwind and downwind marks... It was not pretty. LOL. I would be just sailing off trying to get up enough speed to tack laughing the whole way as I go in completely the wrong direction. I can't tell you how many times I ended up in irons.

But in the end, I did learn more about boat handling in those couple of hours than all of the reading about it I could possibly do...And I don't care how ugly it looked...it was fun. If it were easy, I would hate it.


-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Ugly day [Re: SunnyZ] #74123
05/03/06 07:45 PM
05/03/06 07:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
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fin. Offline
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I think there is a suction cup type wind indicator for Sunfish. It would be a big help.

Re: Ugly day [Re: fin.] #74124
05/03/06 08:07 PM
05/03/06 08:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 984
2017 F18 Americas Site
Dan_Delave Offline
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2017 F18 Americas Site
Wendy:

Most of us have been there. Some may not remember as it was so far back.

Here is the rub: To learn to sail you have to have light wind so as not to be overpowered. With light wind comes the kind of conditions you are talking about.

If you can learn sail successfully in light winds you will be way ahead of me. I do have enough patience for floating around looking for wind.

Best of luck to you.

Later,
Dan

Re: Ugly day [Re: SunnyZ] #74125
05/04/06 08:37 AM
05/04/06 08:37 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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South Carolina
You think that's frustrating? Try racing with the wind like that!

Seriously though, as you build a feel for the boat and the breeze it will become second nature to feel the breeze on the back of your neck, your ears, your cheek. The heel of the boat and the motion it makes as it moves forward (or doesn't move forward!) will give you volumes of information. You will be able to anticipate the shifts and wind strength based a lot on feel. Reaching the point of not having to focus attention on some of the details like "which way to move the tiller to go left", or determining if you ease or pull a line to make the sail move like you want, will allow you to "get your head out of the boat" and begin to observe more of the external things that are affecting you on the water. It sounds complicated now but when you reach that point, you'll be amazed at how simple it really is.

After you've achieved a firm grip on the basics, I suggest going out for several night sails where you loose the crutch of being able to see tell tales and ripples on the water. You can also do this with a blind fold during the day...although you should probably do that on a double handed boat. Loosing these inputs leaves you no choice but to rely on your senses - and you will usually find that they give you so much more information about what is happening to the boat than looking at a 3" strip of flapping fabric every 10 seconds. I believe Rick White does a similar excercise in his seminars.

After I had been sailing for about a year and a half, I sailed the Round the Island race near Pensacola. It was a very slow 110 mile race during the last half of which, the sun went down and it was a moonless night. We sailed in the intracoastal waterway until nearly 3 o'clock in the morning but during that time I felt a sudden revelation because I really felt the boat and the breeze for the first time. I went from a back of the pack sailor to a mid-fleet sailor almost immediately.


Jake Kohl
Re: Ugly day [Re: Jake] #74126
05/04/06 11:51 AM
05/04/06 11:51 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,253
Columbia South Carolina, USA
dave mosley Offline
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Columbia South Carolina, USA
I beg your pardon, it was better than being at work wasnt it?

Wendy sailed well, after a few bad tacks, the wind did pick up to a blasting 5-6, then she started to move very well. We sailed around mooring balls on a W-L course for about an hour before heading out on a reach for about a mile and back. BTW she beat me out to the Towers(I blame it on my tired Sunfish...)
Quote
You think that's frustrating? Try racing with the wind like that

Jake, 2 boats on the water...you think it wasnt a race? JK

She's learning, and will be ready for her 4.3 when it arrives.


The men were amazed, and said, "What kind of a man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?" Matthew 8:27





Re: Ugly day [Re: dave mosley] #74127
05/04/06 12:02 PM
05/04/06 12:02 PM

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Wendy:

You are learn a lot of boat. That is good. I will be racing a sunfish to when I get it back in shape. Need a lot of parts. If you plan to sail a sunfish alot get "The Sunfish Bible"

Good luck, and if you can LEARN to be a good light air sailor you will be DEADLY when you start to race. Stay in touch.

Doug and Ashleigh

Re: Ugly day [Re: dave mosley] #74128
05/04/06 01:17 PM
05/04/06 01:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
Quote
Jake, 2 boats on the water...you think it wasnt a race? JK


Good point...I trust you won?


Jake Kohl
Re: Ugly day [Re: Jake] #74129
05/04/06 04:01 PM
05/04/06 04:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 169
Upstate, South Carolina
SunnyZ Offline OP
member
SunnyZ  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 169
Upstate, South Carolina
Quote
Quote
Jake, 2 boats on the water...you think it wasnt a race? JK


Good point...I trust you won?


Yes, of course he 'won', and the worst part is he kidded me with 'don't let me win!' ...Trust me on this one, I will NEVER let anyone win. You just wait, I will figure this out. I post my struggles to understand because I hope that it will help you teach those around you and also because I hope that everyone will remember how much real fun this is and appreciate how lucky you all are to be able to do such a thing.

Yes Dave, It was much better than work! I was not ready to come off the water at all. I am half afraid to go pick up the Mystere. I know I am not going to have any sense. Going to work is going to be nearly impossible this summer.

Jake, I know what you are talking about when you say 'get my head out of the boat' That is a big barrier for me right now. I have to think about everything. It was really hard for me to be able to pay attention to the light shifting wind in addition to everything else. In my kayak I never think about the boat, or paddling or rolling. I just think about the river and the rest just happens. I can't wait until I just have to think about the wind. How free that must feel.

Re: Ugly day [Re: SunnyZ] #74130
05/04/06 07:58 PM
05/04/06 07:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 443
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
bobcat Offline
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Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
When it is light and shifty, it is always good to sit back and light a cigarette. It calms you, allows you to think, and of course you could always watch which way the smoke is drifting. You don't need to smoke it, just set it down and watch the smoke. You may prefer incense. We will keep this between you and me.

Re: Ugly day [Re: bobcat] #74131
05/04/06 08:02 PM
05/04/06 08:02 PM

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Wendy:

The squaretop on the 4.3 will make lot of difference in light air. I have noticed that on my H17.

Doug

Last edited by DougSnell; 05/04/06 08:04 PM.
Re: Ugly day [Re: bobcat] #74132
05/05/06 01:08 PM
05/05/06 01:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 169
Upstate, South Carolina
SunnyZ Offline OP
member
SunnyZ  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 169
Upstate, South Carolina
Quote
When it is light and shifty, it is always good to sit back and light a cigarette. It calms you, allows you to think, and of course you could always watch which way the smoke is drifting. You don't need to smoke it, just set it down and watch the smoke. You may prefer incense. We will keep this between you and me.


Smoking is a talent I never mastered. It makes me want to die.
I can see the benefit to watching the smoke but that will get me in trouble with my teacher. David keeps making me keep my eyes on the sails and the front of the boat. I REALLY wanted to look at the rudder Tuesday. I kept thinking it was not moving because the boat didn't respond.

Re: Ugly day [Re: SunnyZ] #74133
05/05/06 02:43 PM
05/05/06 02:43 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114
BANNED
MauganN20 Offline
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you can tell when you're not moving when you can see the pollen collect on the surface of the lake.

Re: Ugly day [Re: SunnyZ] #74134
05/05/06 04:41 PM
05/05/06 04:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 736
Westport, Ma. U.S.A.
Brian_Mc Offline
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Brian_Mc  Offline
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Posts: 736
Westport, Ma. U.S.A.
Wendy, You're in the best of company for learning to sail! I only know those Sea Cats from this forum, and the now Yahoo group. Cary has had enough cats to teach you how to sail anything! Dave and Jake have a wealth of experience, knowledge, and personalities to match! The Sunfish is a great platform to start on. I'm thinking of restoring mine. The cat will be a little harder to tack at first, but once you get the hang of it you'll be in for some thrills! I think you may be in for the best Summer of your life! Keep us posted on your progress and adventures!

When to leave the nest? [Re: Brian_Mc] #74135
05/07/06 03:47 PM
05/07/06 03:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 169
Upstate, South Carolina
SunnyZ Offline OP
member
SunnyZ  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 169
Upstate, South Carolina
Thanks Brian, I think it is going to be a great summer too.

I am at a difficult place in my learning right now. I could most likely get from point A to point B. (Perhaps not in the most direct route. )

I pick up my Mystere 4.3 in a couple of weeks. I will have the opportunity to sail alone for the first time. So now, I have to decide at what point do I stop pestering my new found sailing friends to come out with me and just go alone?

My biggest concern right now is being able to right it independently. I weigh a hair under 130 lbs and I have never even witnessed a cat being righted before. I know I will have to do that before I leave shore solo.

I have also read to have a sharp knife and a cell phone with me. (I am on a lake, not many radios out here)

Is being able to right my boat enough to keep from getting into trouble?

I am going to make mistakes. I just don't know what I don't know. Is there anything else I should consider before I take off alone? ...assuming I can push the boat into the water myself

Re: When to leave the nest? [Re: SunnyZ] #74136
05/07/06 05:40 PM
05/07/06 05:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
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fin. Offline
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Get your teacher's to help with a righting drill and don't sail alone just yet.

Do you know when is the right time to reef? As soon as it enters your mind! If you have to ask about solo sailing, you're not ready!

One of the cardinal rules of sailing is patience.

Re: When to leave the nest? [Re: fin.] #74137
05/07/06 06:06 PM
05/07/06 06:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 169
Upstate, South Carolina
SunnyZ Offline OP
member
SunnyZ  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 169
Upstate, South Carolina
Oh Pete, I hate that answer.

I have a unique perspective that gives me more pause than most inexperienced sailors because I am a very experienced whitewater kayaker. I understand the progression of experience. It takes you from being in danger because you don't understand how to avoid it, to doing the same things with consideration of how to avoid problems. You have to cross the line a time or two before you know where the edge is.

Good judgement is the product of experience but experience is the product of poor judgement.

I am just trying to learn from everyone else's poor judgement. Work smarter not harder, right?

Re: When to leave the nest? [Re: SunnyZ] #74138
05/07/06 07:53 PM
05/07/06 07:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
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fin. Offline
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Ok.

Re: When to leave the nest? [Re: SunnyZ] #74139
05/07/06 09:33 PM
05/07/06 09:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Quote
You have to cross the line a time or two before you know where the edge is.


This is an original that we were going to put on the boom of our boat for the first Tybee (but I ran out of time) : "The existence of a limit can only be determined by exceeding it on occasion."


Jake Kohl
Re: When to leave the nest? [Re: SunnyZ] #74140
05/08/06 04:17 AM
05/08/06 04:17 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
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fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline
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Quote
. . .I am just trying to learn from everyone else's poor judgement.


BUGS! If you sail late in the day, you will get caught on the water after dark. Carry plenty of OFF.

Re: When to leave the nest? [Re: SunnyZ] #74141
05/08/06 05:37 AM
05/08/06 05:37 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
I hate Pete's answer, too, because I think that once you know the basics of how to leave and return to shore, the best way to learn is by yourself, trial and error, in lightish winds up to 10 mph.

Here are my suggestions, based upon my own past experiences resulting from poor judgment. If you do all those things, you will be safe to go out and play by yourself and learn on your own. Maybe other people will have additional suggestions, but these work for me.

1. Before you ever take off alone, you have to have friends around so you can practice capsizing your boat and righting it. It is important to know that you can right it yourself.

2. You also need to know whether you are able to get back onto the boat (from deep water) after you right it, and how and where to get back on when you are alone with the boat. (Best place to get on -- although not always the easiest -- is in the front, so the boat stays headed into the wind and doesn't turn off the wind and run away without you, or with you dragging behind.)

3. If the boat capsizes, do not ever, not even for an instant, let go of the boat. If it gets away from you even for a couple of seconds, you will not be able to catch the boat, because it will drift away from you very fast, even in fairly light air.

4. Always know where the wind is coming from. When you are in learning phase, it is best if you have an onshore wind at your departure/return point.

5. When you leave the shore, if the wind is parallel with the shore, ALWAYS head upwind from your departure point and do all your practice sailing upwind of that departure point. That way, if you have a problem, you will at least drift back downwind toward where there may be somebody who will see you and can help you. (This is good standard safety practice for ALL recreational sailors, regardless of experience.)

6. ALWAYS take a paddle with you on the boat (auxiliary engine).

7. Take a small anchor on the boat. Even if the lake is too deep for anchoring out in the middle, when you are single-handing, an anchor can be very useful for temporarily securing the boat when you come to shore.

8. ALWAYS take water with you.

9. ALWAYS take a jacket of some kind with you, even if you don't think you need it.

10. ALWAYS take a little tramp bag of tools, knife, and little pieces of line to fix things that might go wrong.

11. File a float plan with somebody -- let them know when you are leaving, from where, and when you plan to return to where.

12. If possible, take a cell phone with you in a waterproof pouch.

13. When alone on the water (or sailing with young children), I tether myself to the boat.

14. Put a Hobie bob on the top of your mast, so you don't have to worry about the boat turning upside down.

15. When you are first learning on your 4.3, alone on the boat, start out using the main only.

P.S. Once you are on the water, you will have no problems. It is getting the mast up and launching the boat and getting the boat out of the water and back onto the trailer that are problems for most women single-handers -- the land part of it.


Last edited by Mary; 05/08/06 08:05 AM.

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